I like what he does on the court. He does a lot of dirty work. He runs the floor well but he has no other real offensive game. He gets offensive put backs and occasionally throws up some funky shot that rattles in and ocassionally makes a short jumper because his man leaves him. He annoys on defense. I dont think his games deserves the love he gets from even the national media. Any deal involving a big man with a post game and can rebound shoud be made. But a back to the basket bigman is getting harder to find. Again, I like Noah. He surprised me since he was drafted but I dont see the substance that some how makes him part of our "big three". He's just a piece.

A guy that is as willing to do the things he does and as good at doing them who doesn't need the ball is a rare and valuable commodity in a league where most guys care about how many points they can score more than anything else. That's why every team would like to have him.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

He is in Lebron's head.

_________________
That's my purse! I don't know you!

I agree. Boozer can post up and hopefully that would be enough. But Noah is almost Rodman like. Thats okay. Rodmans game was exactly what that team needed. Hopefully an unselfish Noah is exactly what the Bulls need. Maybe the perfect piece to the set. I did forget his passing is pretty good and he's n ot afraid to take a hard foul. I dont consider him a star. When the Bulls are talked about, its always about Rose and Noah. If Noah is the second best player on your team, then you'll never win.

He's looking for some big coin though. 65M worth over 5 years. Bulls offering like 57M. That's a big commitment.

Guess you have to pay him. Dont you?

That's a lot of cash for his skill set. I like the guy but he better produce and hopefully will stay healthy when getting that level of compensation.

That's a bernstein-like thing to say. I'm not even sure what calling a player the "best" means. Guys are good in different ways. In a certain way Ben Wallace may have been the second "best" guy on a champion. If you mean the second best scorer, well, obviously it's probably true. But I think it may be more difficult to find a guy like Noah than it is to find a guy who can give you nearly what Anthony does even though most of us would consider Anthony much better than Noah in a vacuum.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

That's another issue entirely. That's why NBA GMs get paid so well.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I like him and all, but I don't think he'll stay healthy enough to be worth that money. The only way he's "worth" it is if he helps you win a championship, but that contract would hamstring most teams looking to win it in the same league as the Thunder and Heat.

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Maybe I said it wrong. If he's the 2nd most important guy on you team, then they will never win a championship. Noah in a perfect world would be that "it" guy that compliments your stars. He should never be THAT important.

Rose will have to be "Jordan-esque" to win with that team.

Streets off Vagina, never met him before.....who cares?

Still less money than they committed to Luol Deng...

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I disagree. Noah was 7th in rebounding...there were still 7 other players below him in average that still averaged double figures, and obviously 6 ahead of him that did. He was also 16th in blocks which isn't shabby, but not spectacular. Anthony is 3rd in the league in scoring, we all know that. But he gets to the line a ton which is something that would be very valuable on the Bulls. He was 6th in FTA and shot a pretty decent percentage. The first Bull that appears on that list is Rose at 38th. Someone that can create their own shot AND get to the free throw line a ton is much more valuable than someone who gets 10-11 rebounds a game

JORR's method of debating:

Think about the stance that Boers and Bernstein would be least likely to take, and go with it.

Joakim Noah is just good. He's not great. He's not a star. He's not irreplaceable. He's just good.

Go ahead and try to build your championship team around Noah and Rose, JORR. Have fun with that one.

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Kid Cairo's Boers & Bernstein YouTube Channel

Kid Cairo: 2013 March Madness Tournament Winner!

"Cowabunga? Cowa fucking piece of dog shit! This game is diarrhea coming out of my dick!"

I wouldn't be surprised if the gave him an ultimatum to sign at their price and if he doesn't then they will include him in the trade.

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That's my purse! I don't know you!

I don't know but its so fucking frustrating. Noah is good, Melo is a top ten player. Goff said it best when he pointed out that the Bulls won championships with:


and


But it seriously pisses me off. I had a meatball friend say he wouldn't trade Rose for Lebron straight up. I think the Bulls have the dumbest fanbase in Chicago.

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" THis poster said it's 90% that Bernstein goes national. He put a percentage on it. " - Beardown

No, Joe Orr has seen a lot of basketball. He's heard the same stuff about guys like Tracy McGrady and Shawn Kemp that you're saying about Anthony and they never won shit. I don't think you're winning a championship with Anthony and Rose and whether you're closer that way is definitely debatable. You might be able to find a scorer somewhere down the line. I don't think you're going to find another Noah as easily. Not that he's "better". He's different. I don't disagree with what Bagels is saying, but I do think Rose is still developing and will be a guy who gets to the line very often.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

The NBA is a star league. Other than the Pistons of a few years ago, just about every team that wins has a super star. Billups had a deep team around him in Detroit. Noah is a hard find thats true. But he is not in the same stratasphere as Mello. YOur second best player cannot be a guy you dont want near the ball in crunch time. Carmelo is a closer. A jagoff true but he is a closer.

As a fan base, we as Chicago fans, have always gravitated toward the "blue collar" player. Which means a dude that has shit for talent, and likes to sweat.
Noah is a guy who speaks his mind and runs around as hard as he can.... what's not to like.

Carmelo is a silver spooned fed uberstar that forgets to play defense and really only give you 30 minutes a game.....a.k.a Tracy McGrady.

I do find it odd that some of the same people who are so incensed that LeBron won't be "The Man" in Miami have no problem with Carmelo coming in and preventing Rose from being "The Man" in Chicago. In fact, many are eager for it to happen. It doesn't seem a very consistent philosophy.

And I'm not saying the Bulls wouldn't immediately get better by trading Noah for Anthony. I think we can pretty much agree that they would. But I don't think they're going to win a championship right away by doing so and it may not be the best way to build a championship team. I don't think that position is outlandish or controversial. Jason Goff honestly believes they could win next year by making that deal. If you really believe that, then you've got to do it. I don't.

Finally, with regard to Kid Cairo's viewpoint on the matter. I find it quite strange that this is a guy whose favorite player is Scottie Pippen. We can try to rewrite history all we want, but the truth is Scottie was never a premium scorer that created his own shot. So, I'm left to wonder that if the Bulls could have traded Pippen for Wilkins or Bernard King back in 1990, if Kid would have been in favor of that. And in retrospect if the resulting team would have been as successful.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Noah went from a player I hated to my one of favorite players in the league in a span of 18 months.

_________________

But Boozer is clearly the team's second best and second most important player. Deng and Noah are at the next level down, although Noah appears to be trending upward while Deng has reached his peak.

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_________________
You never miss your wealth, till your well went dry
Seem like only yesterday, you were here smiling
Now you gone away, but I know you in a better place
No traces of you, what can I do?
Alone and confused

Mr. Orr-

What are you smoking Pippen was one of the best defenders EVER! Sure he wasnt the scorer Wilkins and King were. not even Glenn Robinson. Those guys JUST SCORED. In the NBA! Scottie played end to end. He guarded the other teams best scorer usually every night. Scottie scored less but prevented points too. He passed like a guard and set screens. He was also selected to play on the original dream team in 92. He almost won MVP in 93-94. (w/o Jordan)

Please please please put the weed down before you compare NBA scorers to Pippen. you just look foolish.

Maybe you want to rethink that.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

So scoring isn't more important for Pippen but it is for Carmelo?

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Are you comparing Pippen to Noah? Pippen Scored. He just didnt create his own shot usually. He ran the floor and did A LOT of things. His defense however created much of his points. Steals, deflections, double teams, blocks and overall harrassment on defense all contributed to whatever Pippens avg was. Noah wil never be a scorer like Pippen becaus its impossible.

Its not that Carmelo is a scorer. Its how he does it. He can shoot. He can post. He gets the opposing team into foul trouble. The offense would run through him on the block. All else happens because of the double teams that carmelo draws. No one will ever double team Noah. But if you are some how saying a straight up Noah for Antony trade would be bad, you're crazy.

Noah is a guy in his third year. Pippen had a Hall of Fame career. What I'm telling you is that if this conversation would have occurred in 1990 regarding Pippen and Dominique Wilkins instead of Noah and Anthony, it would have seemed like the same no-brainer that this does. If Pippen's game was so much better than a guy like Bernard King's in 1990, then why was King all-NBA (third team) and Pippen was not? It's because scoring is regarded as the most important thing in the game. And that's why you think Anthony for Noah is a trade the Bulls would have to make if they could. I don't necessarily disagree with that either. My point is only that stuff doesn't always shake out the way you think it will.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I'd help them pack.