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Author: | RFDC [ Thu Nov 04, 2010 4:07 pm ] |
Post subject: | Thibodeau |
Don't usually care much for Sam Smith's stuff, but thought this was a pretty good article. The more I hear and see of our new coach the more I like. http://blogs.bulls.com/2010/11/thibodea ... -his-past/ Quote: We were at Bulls practice last week before the opener and my old newspaper buddy Rick Morrissey of the Sun-Times was chastising me.
It seemed Rick, who is a heck of a columnist, was trying to get Bulls coach Tom Thibodeau to wax eloquently and sentimentally on this being his first game as an NBA head coach. Perhaps an anecdote about how at eight he was directing the kids at the playground into a zone defense or the day a teacher said he’d better stick to geometry as it’s not like he was going to become an NBA head coach, and little Tim explained it was like geometry and showed her a UCLA cut. Instead, Tom gave one of those, “How many times am I going to be asked this?” answers and looked at Rick quizzically a few times, and offered again something about how nice it all was. So I decided to get Tom excited and asked about what weak side action he might use off Oklahoma City’s zone. Now Rick began to look quizzically at me, and annoyed, and said we should concentrate on this historic first Thibodeau game. But he doesn’t know Tom like we know Tom. Thibodeau is a decent, thoughtful, intelligent man, but I’m pretty sure he never cried at the end of Home Alone. Not that I did, mind you, but Tom is not about sentimentality when it comes to basketball, and especially himself. It’s going to come up again Thursday and Friday, no doubt with a sigh from Thibodeau, when the Bulls host the Knicks Thursday in a TNT national game and travel to Boston Friday. It was in New York under Jeff Van Gundy for seven years where Thibodeau burnished his credentials as an up and coming NBA coach, and in Boston where Massachusetts native Thibodeau established himself as a strong head coaching candidate while directing the Celtics eventual championship defense. No doubt Thibodeau, who played and began his coaching career at Division III Salem State College, will express gratitude for the opportunities that New York and Boston gave him to be where he is now. But what the Bulls have as their new coach is a pragmatic, secular, scientific thinker who is more conversational and down to earth than advertised, but bereft of the pompous dramatics. No, not a sentimentalist, but a true professional coach. It’s certainly early — though at 2-1 with a .667 winning percentage Thibodeau ranks second only to Phil Jackson in franchise history — but we’ve already began to get a look at who Thibodeau is, and it is promising. Thibodeau was much advertised as this intense workaholic, but he hasn’t really driven the players that hard. The Bulls had another day off Tuesday, and it hasn’t been anything like the Pat Riley practice death marches that are so notorious. There are demands in practice, but more like Jerry Sloan’s style in getting your work done than punishing you because the coach works so hard. There’s no question Thibodeau personally works a lot, but so do a lot of construction workers and nurses. He demands a lot of his staff, and the assistants spent an awful lot of the summer preparing game plans and breaking down tape for the season. This staff, and Thibodeau, will not be taken by surprise. There isn’t any need for Jackson’s cushioned seat for Thibodeau as he’s standing and pacing almost all game and calling out to the players. Though Thibodeau does have a sharp sense of humor, if not during press conferences and post games, as he said if he won as much as Phil he’d sit down. Thibodeau did not learn Jeff Van Gundy dour. But while Thibodeau is up all game, he’s not shouting or screaming at the players. Instead, he is still instructing as he is more at the core a teacher. Perhaps the most embarrassing thing for NBA coaches is those live lookins on national TV where they are addressing the players and generally say something like, “Get a stop,” or “We need a turnover.” I believe in the Bulls huddles the players are being told how to get a turnover or a stop. It’s actually one of the differences I often find between former players who become coaches without much coaching experience and journeyman coaches. There’s this notion because a guy has played he knows the game. Sure, plenty do. But they don’t necessarily know how to coach the game. They generally have played because of their athletic talent, which doesn’t mean they know how to break down an offense or defense or have a plan. Or to teach. You know the old line about those that can do and those that can’t teach? Thibodeau couldn’t play, but he can teach. Which also doesn’t mean he’ll be a better coach because some of the best and most successful ever like Jackson, Pat Riley, Don Nelson and Lenny Wilkens were highly contributing players. But it also doesn’t mean because he didn’t play he’s less qualified. Though I don’t get to watch practices, I’ve heard that Thibodeau isn’t the screamer type. What’s most unusual about his methods is his hands on approach, more than any coach I’ve ever heard of, which may not be perfect. Thibodeau basically runs the practices and works on the floor with the players and is a bit of a micromanager as a head coach. No Bear Bryant in the tower for him. Most coaches have their assistants do more of the on the floor instruction while they oversee and supervise. But Thibodeau is right there in practice and shootarounds, which he basically ran in Boston as well. Thibodeau, from what I have heard, will stop a practice to explain something to a player, but then move on without making it a major issue or appearing to single out the player for an error. It’s a method that seems to have been accepted. He seems demanding without being obnoxious. Thibodeau worked one on one with Noah all summer, which also is rare for a head coach, and both Noah and Rose joked good naturedly about his workaholic nature. Noah joked that sometimes he’d try to sneak out of the Berto Center if he was tired, but Thibodeau would catch him and always have something to work on. Rose laughed when he said he developed a plan to have friends call and say he had an appointment to get a break from some Thibodeau workouts. But it seemed said mostly in fun, certainly for now, and the players seem to have bought in to what Thibodeau has been selling. What is generally unrecognized about players is they want to get better. They may not quote many literary classics, but they know quickly if you are trying to fool them. They also know fairly quickly if you can help them. The Bulls players seem to have recognized that Thibodeau can help them get better. When a player realizes that, he tends to respond, and the Bulls players seem to have. Getting better generally means better pay and a better team and life, and no matter how cool one sometimes has to appear, I’ve found most do want that. Few around the Bulls have ever seen Luol Deng quite so engaged and positive about a season. Rose is getting a dose of defensive principles he never in his life knew existed among Simeon, Memphis and the Bulls. Overall, the Bulls defense, if not only in statistics (fourth overall in field goal defense, first in three point defense and sixth in rebounding) but in effort has been impressive. Good defense requires hard work and the Bulls have done so. They have been particularly active, helping and then recovering, which requires a lot of effort. Thibodeau also requires different theories of coverage depending on the position you are playing, and the players seemed to have welcomed it. Management also seems to be making a major effort to accommodate Thibodeau. Thibodeau wanted strictly his own staff, though the Bulls had retained three assistants from last season, Pete Myers, Randy Brown and Mike Wilhelm, all of whom are well regarded around the NBA and whom management likes. It’s not unprecedented for a coach to want his so called own guys, and the Bulls went along with that. So Thibodeau seems to be in a strong position with the team and the players. It seems clear he’s a professional who has prepared well for this job after basically 20 years coaching in the NBA. Sometimes your chance never comes no matter how hard you work. Sorry to break it to you. But Thibodeau radiates that personal confidence and certainty, which appears to resonate with the players. He had no doubt this day would come. So what’s the big deal? |
Author: | Tall Midget [ Thu Nov 04, 2010 4:23 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Thibodeau |
Great article. Thanks for posting it! |
Author: | jimmypasta [ Thu Nov 04, 2010 4:29 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Thibodeau |
Basketball's answer to Mike Quade. I hope he is a big hit. |
Author: | Urlacher's missing neck [ Thu Nov 04, 2010 5:15 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Thibodeau |
He sucks according to North because Vinny D won his first game with the Bulls. North hasn't let me down yet so I have to take his word for it. |
Author: | Eaglo Jeff [ Thu Nov 04, 2010 5:49 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Thibodeau |
I think he will be a Bulls Hit......two words. |
Author: | Walt Williams Neck [ Fri Nov 05, 2010 4:32 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Thibodeau |
Really coached the fuck outta them last night |
Author: | Walt Williams Neck [ Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:30 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Thibodeau |
What exactly is Thibodeau's half court offense? One pass and shoot? |
Author: | The Original Kid Cairo [ Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:22 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Thibodeau |
Walt Williams Neck wrote: What exactly is Thibodeau's half court offense? One pass and shoot? It's not Thibs' fault if players are breaking down the plays that he's calling. That's an execution issue. |
Author: | beni hanna [ Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:24 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Thibodeau |
The Original Kid Cairo wrote: Walt Williams Neck wrote: What exactly is Thibodeau's half court offense? One pass and shoot? It's not Thibs' fault if players are breaking down the plays that he's calling. That's an execution issue. CJ may suck at running an offense, but I cannot condone his execution. |
Author: | The Original Kid Cairo [ Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:25 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Thibodeau |
I see what you did there. |
Author: | NSJ [ Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:32 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Thibodeau |
Had not read that. Excellent article. Thanks for sharing it! |
Author: | mel junior [ Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:32 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Thibodeau |
Tom Thibodeau is very handsome in a Night Manager at Denny's kind of way. |
Author: | Hawkeye Vince [ Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:47 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Thibodeau |
Walt Williams Neck wrote: What exactly is Thibodeau's half court offense? One pass and shoot? A ton of pick and roll. Basically let the point guard control the action with the dribble drive and kick. It worked in Boston. |
Author: | Walt Williams Neck [ Tue Nov 09, 2010 5:41 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Thibodeau |
Hawkeye Vince wrote: Walt Williams Neck wrote: What exactly is Thibodeau's half court offense? One pass and shoot? A ton of pick and roll. Basically let the point guard control the action with the dribble drive and kick. It worked in Boston. Vinnie did the same shit |
Author: | RFDC [ Tue Nov 09, 2010 5:43 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Thibodeau |
If you think Thibs offense and Vinnys offense are the same then you are a bigger basketball retard than I ever thought. |
Author: | Walt Williams Neck [ Tue Nov 09, 2010 5:51 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Thibodeau |
RFDC wrote: If you think Thibs offense and Vinnys offense are the same then you are a bigger basketball retard than I ever thought. How thick do you think a basketball playbook is?????? George Mikan was running a pick and roll. Okay I know you or anyone will answer this , but bb savants what is Thibs doing different than Vinnie? |
Author: | Walt Williams Neck [ Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:00 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Thibodeau |
Nice answer RFDC! Cause you don't have one |
Author: | Walt Williams Neck [ Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:21 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Thibodeau |
i will be leaving this thread until Mr. Non committal has an answer...so goodbye to Thibodeau for I have hardly got to know thee |
Author: | RFDC [ Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:37 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Thibodeau |
Walt Williams Neck wrote: Nice answer RFDC! Cause you don't have one Here is my answer: You remain an asswipe. Vince already more than adequately answered your question. And the very notion that you mistake the 2 offenses is quite funny. Since I know you have a hard time figuring out these new computers, let me repost what Vince said so you can try to sound out all the big words: Quote: A ton of pick and roll. Basically let the point guard control the action with the dribble drive and kick. It worked in Boston.
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Author: | Walt Williams Neck [ Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:50 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Thibodeau |
Vinnie didn't use the pick and roll... and what FUCKIN POINT GUARD DOESN'T DRIVE WITH THE OPTION TO KICK????? My God I just went into a coma.............. |
Author: | Hawkeye Vince [ Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:26 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Thibodeau |
Walt Williams Neck wrote: Vinnie didn't use the pick and roll... and what FUCKIN POINT GUARD DOESN'T DRIVE WITH THE OPTION TO KICK????? My God I just went into a coma.............. They don't run a motion offense - they don't run a flex offense. They are committed to the pick and roll even running double picks to free Rose. Rose makes the offense looks better than it is....When Watson is in the game, it can look pretty pathetic. |
Author: | beni hanna [ Fri Dec 31, 2010 1:47 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Thibodeau |
Pulled this from a KC Johnson article. Not sure if Walt is a Vinnie apologist. Doesn't sound like Rose is.... Night and day: Whether he meant it as a knock on former coach Vinny Del Negro or not, Rose said this season features better in-game adjustments. "We used to go into games where we were like, 'Man, how are you going to win this game?' " Rose said. "But now, we go into games, we know what to do. If we're messing up we can change it right when we're playing. "We don't have to look at film tomorrow and figure out this is why we're losing. … That has been the difference between this year and last year." http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/ba ... 1154.story |
Author: | RFDC [ Fri Dec 31, 2010 1:53 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Thibodeau |
That sums up pretty well what some of us have been seeing this year. |
Author: | rogers park bryan [ Fri Dec 31, 2010 2:00 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Thibodeau |
Thibodeau goes into a restaurant my buddies brother manages quite often. I guess they got into a conversation about how Noah passes drug tests. The tests are given once a year and the players Know its coming. Thibodeau explained that everybody in the NBA smokes. Not excluding himself. |
Author: | RFDC [ Fri Dec 31, 2010 2:04 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Thibodeau |
Which makes someone like Josh Howard an even bigger moron. |
Author: | beni hanna [ Fri Dec 31, 2010 2:05 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Thibodeau |
Kinda glad he does. Seems a high stress guy. Think I can take him off my Death Pool for 2011 now. |
Author: | Juiced [ Fri Dec 31, 2010 3:28 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Thibodeau |
Walt Williams Neck wrote: RFDC wrote: If you think Thibs offense and Vinnys offense are the same then you are a bigger basketball retard than I ever thought. How thick do you think a basketball playbook is?????? George Mikan was running a pick and roll. Okay I know you or anyone will answer this , but bb savants what is Thibs doing different than Vinnie? The Bulls start with defense and rebounding. They do these things well, which puts them into the open floor, to get as many easy baskets as possible. The first thing they look for is layups and dunks. The second thing would be deep post ups and the third thing would be open jump shots. They play with a quick pace, get the ball in the paint, play inside-out and they play unselfishly. Notice simpleton, Open jump shots came last. Vinnie's offense was the contested, long-range, two-point jumper. Happy New Year! |
Author: | C_Howitt_Fealz [ Sat Jan 01, 2011 1:25 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Thibodeau |
It's been more than two years now and I still don't have an answer. Why didn't Paxson wait to interview Thibodeau before hiring Vinnie? Was anybody else seeking Vinnie's services? |
Author: | Mr. Reason [ Sat Jan 01, 2011 1:29 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Thibodeau |
C_Howitt_Fealz wrote: It's been more than two years now and I still don't have an answer. Why didn't Paxson wait to interview Thibodeau before hiring Vinnie? Was anybody else seeking Vinnie's services? I think it's pretty well established Paxon was sold a bill goods when it came to Vinnie. Let me put it to you this way. Paxon was the majority of the American electorate and Vinnie was Obama. Is it clear to you now? |
Author: | IkeSouth [ Sat Jan 01, 2011 12:29 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Thibodeau |
pax wanted thibs before vinney. thibs was not available, so they hired vinny as a placeholder. they told vinney this, and vinney still took the job to his head. this is why pax almost punched him in the face, because pax never told vinney that he was in control of anything. vinney actually thought he was capable of coaching a team. so can we now all agree that its pronounced "thib-oh-day-yoo"? |
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