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The guy that is 8 years older can?

When does Wallace ever look to shoot? He always looks to pass the ball first.

You are wrong. I've seen Chandler dominate a game on the defensive end many times when the game was on the line.

If you don't compare stats what was the point of the signing?

You don't go from getting eliminated in the 1st round to being Eastern Conference Champs overnight

As of now the Bulls look worse defensively than they did at any point last season.

Look at the game log GD. He had 1 bad game that was probably due to foul trouble. He had 3 rebounds and 4 fouls.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/351 ... LLYNukvLYF

As of now the Bulls look worse defensively than they did at any point last season. Wallace looks slow and he is out of position a lot.

Nothing has changed since last week. Chandler is still out playing Wallace. If you have been watching the games you can see Wallace isn't the same player.

Chandler
6.1 PPG
63.6% FGP
11.4 rebounds(4.4 offensive)
1.3 AST
1 Blk
3.8 fouls(still a problem)
30.41 mins

Wallace
5.1 PPG
40.5% FGP
9.4 rebounds(4.1 offensive)
1.9 AST
1.3 Blk
2.4 fouls
35.17 mins

Ben Wallace will finish the game with 0 points and 0 rebounds.

WR these guys were here last year. They didn’t all of a sudden forget how to play defense.

Winning cures everything and right now the Bulls have won 7 in a row.

Chandler also isn't playing with any big rebounders. Noce and Deng can both go and get it...

I've been bashing the guy for not playing all year, but he had a hell of a game tonight. He had 15 points, 20 rebounds and 5 blocks. This is what they gave him $60M to do.

Author:	good dolphin [ Fri Nov 10, 2006 4:45 pm ]
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He is scoring more, but he is also playing more minutes and taking more shots. I expect he will come down from that 70% shooting percentage and his scoring will be back into the 5 PPG range. The rebounds are up dramatically. I don't think anyone questioned that he had the ability to be a double digit rebounder per game.

Author:	good dolphin [ Fri Nov 10, 2006 4:50 pm ]
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That one was a mistake. I would have let him come to camp and made an assesment of his skills as a Bull rather than just letting him walk.

Author:	Woodridge Ryan [ Fri Nov 10, 2006 4:58 pm ]
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Some things your statlines aren't going to be able to prove.... Tyson's inability to hold on to a basketball. Tyson's unwillingness to shoot the ball after a rebound when he is two feet away from the basket uncontested (this happened NUMEROUS times when I went to games at the UC with the crowd all over this idiot). Tyson's non existence at the end of games. He's simply not on the floor but if he is he's usually worthless in these pressure situations unlike Ben Wallace who has proved to be key down the stretch of games. Your fantasy basketball stats you are going to post will not change how I feel about having Wallace over Chandler. I'm going to beed a bit more substance.

Author:	Woodridge Ryan [ Fri Nov 10, 2006 5:26 pm ]
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Oooo, a good ol' Bulls discussion. Good stuff. Quote: The guy that is 8 years older can? Yes, Ben can...a hell of a lot better than Tyson's butterfingers. Quote: When does Wallace ever look to shoot? He always looks to pass the ball first. Well, I wasn't talking about looking to shoot in general. However, when I 've watched Pistons game in the past if Ben got a rebound with an uncontested jam/lay up/shot from two feet out in front of him he would actually take it. Address my entire paragraph. Quote: You are wrong. I've seen Chandler dominate a game on the defensive end many times when the game was on the line. Two things make me laugh....First thing: Dominate. That's hilarious. Second thing: Many times. Also funny. A handful of times, sure I've seen it, but everyone can have a good night at the end of the game every now and then. Quote: If you don't compare stats what was the point of the signing? Well I just got done telling you stats alone aren't going to prove anything. They don't tell the entire story of a player. How many of those points and rebounds for Tyson are garbage? Maybe none...but my point was that you putting up stats aren't going to sway me that Paxson made a bad call unlesss its overwhelming. Let's keep in mind Ben's experience in big games, playoff games, and NBA Title games. By the way, he's not "old." Older, yes, but he isn't where you want to put him yet. I have a feeling I am arguing with a very biased Tyson Chandler fan I personally was rooting for the guy to get good here, but I just never saw the basketball awareness out of him and sometimes you'd question his work ethic.

Author:	Woodridge Ryan [ Fri Nov 10, 2006 5:49 pm ]
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I still think they can compete this year and next for a title. I've got your Cub/Bears koolaid for the Bulls

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Chandler vs Wallace https://mail.chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=7822	Page 1 of 4

Author:	Country Bumpkin [ Fri Nov 10, 2006 11:50 pm ]
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Bill Cartwright was 33 when the Bulls won their first championship. Chandler has zero intestinal fortitude and I do not think he will be a dominate force. I will take Ben Wallace any day of the week. I'm more excited about the pick up of Thabo Sefalosha. I think he'll be a special player.

Author:	Bulldog Scott [ Sat Nov 11, 2006 6:51 pm ]
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Can we at least wait until they've played a half of a season to judge these deals? Or, how about 20 games? 10? At this point, all we can say is that Ben hasn't played as well as expected in the first 5 games and Tyson has played better than expected to start his season. 5 games does not a season make. Also, keep in mind that Ben's deal is front loaded, so when he's washed up in two years, they'll be paying him less than they were paying AD to be on the roster and be washed up. And we can at least agree that although AD was washed up, he still had value to the team. I don't like that they gave JR Smith away just because he wasn't a "Skiles Guy".

Author:	Woodridge Ryan [ Mon Nov 13, 2006 5:58 pm ]
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Quote: You don't go from getting eliminated in the 1st round to being Eastern Conference Champs overnight I know what you're saying but they lost to the Heat in the first round and had the shit scared out of them at that. I don't have much else than that to back an arguement on the Bulls making the NBA Finals...leftover KOOOOOOOOOOOLAID from the Nas fridge.

Author:	Bagels [ Wed Nov 15, 2006 3:35 pm ]
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I think it's hilarious how the same people ready to run Chandler out of town are now pointing out how great a season he's having compared to Wallace. Nas notwithstanding, I can't think of too many people who thought they should have kept Chandler. Now B&B are breaking down the stats in some revisionist history. True, Wallace is not playing well right now and Chandler is, but let's let the ebb and flow of the season take it's course. There's a reason they call them "averages"...Chandler's stats will come back down to earth and Wallace's will improve. And no doubt, I'll take Wallace in crunch time

Author:	good dolphin [ Wed Nov 15, 2006 5:00 pm ]
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Not that it really matters after less than 10 games but Chandlers numbers have been going down since this was first posted. He will be a 5 point 10 rebound player. Wallace...Nas might be right.

Author:	Bulldog Scott [ Wed Nov 15, 2006 7:40 pm ]
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Nas wrote: As of now the Bulls look worse defensively than they did at any point last season. They started off pretty brutal defensively last year. Team defense doesn't develop overnight.

Author:	good dolphin [ Thu Nov 16, 2006 8:51 am ]
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Nas wrote: Look at the game log GD. He had 1 bad game that was probably due to foul trouble. He had 3 rebounds and 4 fouls. http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/351 ... LLYNukvLYF Which is why i wrote "not that it really matters after less than 10 games"

Author:	Tall Midget [ Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:46 am ]
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Quote: As of now the Bulls look worse defensively than they did at any point last season. Wallace looks slow and he is out of position a lot. Isn't part of this due to the fact that the Bulls' perimeter defense is quite porous? Gordon is bad defensively. And although Hinrich is frequently praised for his defense, he gets beaten a lot and also commits many unnecessary fouls. To me, at least, his defense looks worse (so far) this year than it did last year. People always say Hinrich is a "smart" player, but the guy really seems to lack instincts for the game. Offensively, he often dribbles into traffic without having an idea about what he wants to do with the ball while defensively he has a propensity to "reach" into his man when he should know that he gets called for the foul every time. [/code]

Author:	Juiced [ Sat Nov 18, 2006 12:09 am ]
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Quote: Nothing has changed since last week. Chandler is still out playing Wallace. If you have been watching the games you can see Wallace isn't the same player. Chandler 6.1 PPG 63.6% FGP 11.4 rebounds(4.4 offensive) 1.3 AST 1 Blk 3.8 fouls(still a problem) 30.41 mins Wallace 5.1 PPG 40.5% FGP 9.4 rebounds(4.1 offensive) 1.9 AST 1.3 Blk 2.4 fouls 35.17 mins You're funny NAS. ATL/UTAH have better records then MIA/DAL. Do you think ATL/UTAH are going to the finals? Wallace: DEFENSIVE PLAYER OF THE YEAR! 2006, not 1996. What's the over/under before Tyson's back puts him on the DL?

Author:	TheIntangibles [ Wed Nov 22, 2006 8:36 am ]
Post subject:	Chandler vs Wallace
Game nite 11/21/06 Tyson 18 Boards 1 Block 4 Fouls Hornets Win Ben 16 Boards 3 Blocks 2 Fouls Bulls Lose Statistical dead heat this time. Apples and oranges. They're basicly different stages of the same player absorbing lots of salary cap money. Ben is an over-achieving Anti-Shaq, Anti-Dirk, Anti-Duncan, Anti-Garnett etc. waiting to turn achy breaky real fast. He also needs more support-often this season support's been sparce. Tyson has more size, more years and a bigger upside ahead of him. If the Bulls dont go deep deep into the playoffs/ finals in the next 2 years, then this a bad trade off.

Author:	The Original Kid Cairo [ Wed Nov 22, 2006 9:26 am ]
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Author:	Beardown [ Fri Nov 24, 2006 11:43 pm ]
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I heard that Nas. I wish the dumb reporter would have followed up after he asked twice. I think it was the Trib guy with the glasses. What did you mean by that Skiles? How disapointing is it that the 14 million dollar man that you hired for rebounding has to be taken out for lack of rebounding? Scared ass hole reporters. All of them. It's fun to watch these press confrences just to see how pathetic are Chicago media is.

Author:	TheIntangibles [ Wed Nov 29, 2006 7:34 am ]
Post subject:	Boards
Boards again. Tyson over Ben. 17-12 . wow

Author:	Woodridge Ryan [ Wed Nov 22, 2006 8:56 am ]
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Nas, I don't think anyone here was telling you Wallace was going to improve as a player. I still believe he will be more valuable than Tyson Chandler come playoff time. Also, I like how Tall Midget well written post was completely ignored because you are sooo biased for Tyson. TM- Isn't part of this due to the fact that the Bulls' perimeter defense is quite porous? Gordon is bad defensively. And although Hinrich is frequently praised for his defense, he gets beaten a lot and also commits many unnecessary fouls. To me, at least, his defense looks worse (so far) this year than it did last year. People always say Hinrich is a "smart" player, but the guy really seems to lack instincts for the game. Offensively, he often dribbles into traffic without having an idea about what he wants to do with the ball while defensively he has a propensity to "reach" into his man when he should know that he gets called for the foul every time.

Author:	Bulldog Scott [ Fri Nov 24, 2006 11:57 pm ]
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Nas wrote: Ben Wallace will finish the game with 0 points and 0 rebounds. I saw that but didn't see the game. Was he hurt? Or just old?

Author:	Beardown [ Sat Nov 25, 2006 12:02 am ]
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Skiles is usually willing to be honest. Maybe he would have dummied up after a follow up. But Skiles revealed that out of no where without being prompted. Ask him to explain that revelation. You're a reporter. That's a good story. They just want to get their lame sound bites and do their story. But that was interesting and somebody should have had a spine to follow up there.

Author:	Tall Midget [ Wed Nov 29, 2006 10:07 am ]
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Quote: WR these guys were here last year. They didn’t all of a sudden forget how to play defense. The Bulls' perimeter defense simply isn't as good this year as it was last year. Hinrich has always been overrated defensively, but he's not guarding anyone this year. His man can get to the hoop anytime he wants. Same thing with Gordon. He is the master of the basketball version of the "trail technique". And Deng, who started strong defensively, hasn't looked good lately, either. So in my opinion there's more to the Bulls' troubles than Wallace's admittedly lackluster play. As a sidenote, let me add that Kirk Hinrich drives me freakin' crazy. Aside from being bad and dumb defensively, he's also incredibly stupid--something you simply cannot be as a starting NBA point guard--offensively. The guy consistently drives into traffic without having an idea of where he's going to pass the ball or how he's going to shoot. He is the undisputed master of the bad pass and the weak finish. For a player who is purportedly so "smart", he really has below average basketball instincts.

Author:	Tall Midget [ Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:57 pm ]
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Wallace still had a heck of a game tonight against the Raptors. Not sure about how many rebounds or blocks he'll be officially given, but he had his hands on a lot of balls and deflected a lot of passes. He's been doing this a lot lately and has amassed more than fifty deflections more than the next best Bulls player in that category. Still, his rebounding and interior defense aren't what they should be. I was impressed by Toronto's offensive style. They moved the ball around a lot and made it pretty tough for the Bulls to guard them. Fortunately, though, they're not a very good defensive team.

Author:	Bulldog Scott [ Sat Dec 09, 2006 12:57 am ]
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Nas wrote: Winning cures everything and right now the Bulls have won 7 in a row. Truer words have never been written. Chandler also isn't playing with any big rebounders. Noce and Deng can both go and get it...

Author:	Beardown [ Sat Dec 09, 2006 1:36 am ]
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Rebounding can be an overratted stat at times. I mean if a team your playing is shooting poorly there is more to be had obviously. Plus if your a front line player sometimes the ball just bounces right to you and you grab it because you are there. I consider the guys who lead in offensive rebounding to be the best rebounders. Those you have to work for more because in theory the defense has better postion. Plus your out of postition because your working the offense.

Author:	Beardown [ Sat Dec 09, 2006 12:24 pm ]
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No. Obviously some guys are better then others. Eddie Curry is an example of some one who's lazy. My point was that if you watch a game sometimes it just bounces to you. Plus if the team you play can't shoot you can get like 18 rebounds and it's a little scewed compared to playing against a team that can shoot.

Author:	Juiced [ Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:09 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Wallace
Quote: I've been bashing the guy for not playing all year, but he had a hell of a game tonight. He had 15 points, 20 rebounds and 5 blocks. This is what they gave him $60M to do. Glad to see you are coming over to the no headband side

Author:	MattInTheCrown [ Thu Dec 14, 2006 11:13 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Wallace
Quote: I've been bashing the guy for not playing all year, but he had a hell of a game tonight. He had 15 points, 20 rebounds and 5 blocks. This is what they gave him $60M to do. He was really fun to watch last night. The Boo are gearing it up a bit; if they can continue to get better, perhaps they'll meet preseason expectations after all.

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