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Jimmy Butler?
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Author:  Nas [ Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Jimmy Butler?
Has he shown enough to make you comfortable dealing Deng this summer or does he need more seasoning? I could see a Deng for Gasol deal in the making and Boozer getting traded or getting amnestied this summer.
Author:  Terry's Peeps [ Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimmy Butler?
I want to see him play with Rose and Deng.

If only that were possible.
Author:  Nas [ Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimmy Butler?
Terry's Peeps wrote:
I want to see him play with Rose and Deng.

If only that were possible.


Jimmy at the 2? His development has been one of the greatest things about this season.
Author:  Terry's Peeps [ Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimmy Butler?
Yeah I'd like to see him at the 2 and if he could get more comfortable with his shot.

I agree about his development being the best part of this year.
Author:  cpguy [ Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimmy Butler?
I agree with Butler at the 2.

Gotta give some credit to management for making a good pick late in the 1st round and to good coaching as well. Clearly Butler has the desire to improve and has enough of a skillset to emerge as a starter and deliver solid results on both ends of the court.
Author:  jimmypasta [ Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimmy Butler?
Nas wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
I want to see him play with Rose and Deng.

If only that were possible.


Jimmy at the 2? His development has been one of the greatest things about this season.


Bernstein says he's just another guy. The Bulls seem to find some decent players in the draft.
Author:  bigfan [ Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimmy Butler?
Terry's Peeps wrote:
I want to see him play with Rose and Deng.

If only that were possible.


May as well wish for the impossible, get Hamilton in there

2 year deal, I would guess he played 30 games over 2 years?
Author:  Bagels [ Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimmy Butler?
bigfan wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
I want to see him play with Rose and Deng.

If only that were possible.


May as well wish for the impossible, get Hamilton in there

2 year deal, I would guess he played 30 games over 2 years?


i can't believe i was even remotely happy when they got him..i guess it was just the fact they signed SOMEONE who you thought could feed off Rose's crumbs. should have realized from the very beginning it was a Griffey Jr./Manny Ramirez type thing..
Author:  Rod [ Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimmy Butler?
Bagels wrote:
bigfan wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
I want to see him play with Rose and Deng.

If only that were possible.


May as well wish for the impossible, get Hamilton in there

2 year deal, I would guess he played 30 games over 2 years?


i can't believe i was even remotely happy when they got him..i guess it was just the fact they signed SOMEONE who you thought could feed off Rose's crumbs. should have realized from the very beginning it was a Griffey Jr./Manny Ramirez type thing..


That's a good comparison. Sometimes those kind of guys have one last hurrah though. It just never seems to happen in a Chicago uniform.
Author:  Bagels [ Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimmy Butler?
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Bagels wrote:
bigfan wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
I want to see him play with Rose and Deng.

If only that were possible.


May as well wish for the impossible, get Hamilton in there

2 year deal, I would guess he played 30 games over 2 years?


i can't believe i was even remotely happy when they got him..i guess it was just the fact they signed SOMEONE who you thought could feed off Rose's crumbs. should have realized from the very beginning it was a Griffey Jr./Manny Ramirez type thing..


That's a good comparison. Sometimes those kind of guys have one last hurrah though. It just never seems to happen in a Chicago uniform.


well, i'm sure he can still hit a wide open mid-range jumper if the defense is collapsing on Rose
unfortunately he needs to be on the court for that happen, as does Rose :lol:
Author:  The Original Kid Cairo [ Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimmy Butler?
jimmypasta wrote:
Nas wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
I want to see him play with Rose and Deng.

If only that were possible.


Jimmy at the 2? His development has been one of the greatest things about this season.


Bernstein says he's just another guy. The Bulls seem to find some decent players in the draft.

Who gives a shit what Bernstein says? This ain't about him, and it's clear that Berns doesn't know anything about basketball outside of terminology like pin-down screens and icing pick and roll anyway. I'm sick of Bernstein's name coming up in conversations that don't involve him. Worst thing about the board right now.
Author:  Bagels [ Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimmy Butler?
The Original Kid Cairo wrote:
Berns doesn't know anything about basketball outside of terminology like pin-down screens and icing pick and roll anyway. .


:lol:
Author:  rogers park bryan [ Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimmy Butler?
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Bagels wrote:
bigfan wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
I want to see him play with Rose and Deng.

If only that were possible.


May as well wish for the impossible, get Hamilton in there

2 year deal, I would guess he played 30 games over 2 years?


i can't believe i was even remotely happy when they got him..i guess it was just the fact they signed SOMEONE who you thought could feed off Rose's crumbs. should have realized from the very beginning it was a Griffey Jr./Manny Ramirez type thing..


That's a good comparison. Sometimes those kind of guys have one last hurrah though. It just never seems to happen in a Chicago uniform.

Gary Gaetti did

But then the Cubs thought he had a SECOND last hurrah in him
Author:  Bagels [ Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimmy Butler?
loved the Gary Gaetti helmet
Author:  Douchebag [ Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimmy Butler?
rogers park bryan wrote:
Gary Gaetti did

But then the Cubs thought he had a SECOND last hurrah in him

Very nice post.

I loved the Gary Gaetti scrap heap pick-up in 1998. 1999 Gary Gaetti, that was something awful.

1998 still goes down as my favorite season of my lifetime. So many balls bounced the Cubs way that year. I almost believed the whole ghost of Harry and Brickhouse were helping the team. Rod Beck was pitching like 5 straight days down the stretch, and Terry Mulholland would start a game, and then come out of the pen two days later. Good stuff...
Author:  Terry's Peeps [ Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimmy Butler?
The Original Kid Cairo wrote:
Berns doesn't know anything about basketball outside of terminology like pin-down screens and icing pick and roll anyway. .


A-damn-men.

Please leave the thoughts of a know-nothing sports shock-jock in his designated sections.
Author:  veganfan21 [ Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimmy Butler?
Nas wrote:
Has he shown enough to make you comfortable dealing Deng this summer or does he need more seasoning? I could see a Deng for Gasol deal in the making and Boozer getting traded or getting amnestied this summer.


Deng needs to go or be supplanted anyway. He cannot be the second best player on your team, unless your best player is LeBron James.
Author:  Nas [ Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimmy Butler?
veganfan21 wrote:
Nas wrote:
Has he shown enough to make you comfortable dealing Deng this summer or does he need more seasoning? I could see a Deng for Gasol deal in the making and Boozer getting traded or getting amnestied this summer.


Deng needs to go or be supplanted anyway. He cannot be the second best player on your team, unless your best player is LeBron James.


You could argue that Noah is the 2nd best but I understand. Deng hasn't really gotten better since he signed his contract. Sure he can knock down the 3 better now but there hasn't been the improvement that I expected. It's a little disappointing.
Author:  Douchebag [ Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimmy Butler?
Nas wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Nas wrote:
Has he shown enough to make you comfortable dealing Deng this summer or does he need more seasoning? I could see a Deng for Gasol deal in the making and Boozer getting traded or getting amnestied this summer.


Deng needs to go or be supplanted anyway. He cannot be the second best player on your team, unless your best player is LeBron James.


You could argue that Noah is the 2nd best but I understand. Deng hasn't really gotten better since he signed his contract. Sure he can knock down the 3 better now but there hasn't been the improvement that I expected. It's a little disappointing.

When he signed the deal, I thought it was horrendously bad paper, but I've come to respect Deng. I used to describe him as soft, but he's been the most durable player on the roster the last few seasons. He's become one of the better defenders in the league, and can knock down the 3 pretty well at times. He still might be slightly overpaid, but that contract turned out to be ok.
Author:  Terry's Peeps [ Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimmy Butler?
Watch Deng during the beginning of a season and near the end.

He's completely different.

At the start, he's able to drive to the basket with more assertiveness and create his own shot. Towards the end, he's more of a perimeter player.

He's played way too much by Thibs, and the injuries take their toll as well.
Author:  sinicalypse [ Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimmy Butler?
Nas wrote:
You could argue that Noah is the 2nd best but I understand. Deng hasn't really gotten better since he signed his contract. Sure he can knock down the 3 better now but there hasn't been the improvement that I expected. It's a little disappointing.


does the whole thing with his wrist piss you off?

i was OK with moving deng back when there was no jimmy butler / whoever to replace him. deng is a remnant of the original ~04-08 "try hard bulls" which didn't win crap, and then he stayed as the only centrifugal piece between them and the "super try hard bulls" with derrick and that didn't work either.

deng can't do an iso to save his life, he can't create his own shot outside of flailing at the basket and praying for a make/foul, and like.... shoot, the bulls need a #1 scorer first and foremost because rose can't be the #1 scorer/scoring-option on a championship team. while deng could be a decent lil piece as a high-profile role-player, he's never gonna be one of the reasons you win a championship, tho yeah sure he'd help.

to compare to the vintage bulls only in terms of their relative/importance to the team (not comparing the actual players), he's definitely more of a kukoc than pippen. the bulls could have found someone else solid enough to take the kukoc role and still won titles, but not with the pippen role. ergo, the bulls could find someone to replace deng and still be just as good or better, but it's not like the bulls are going to fall off of a cliff if deng goes in lieu of someone solid/cheaper/with-more-upside-in-the-future.
Author:  veganfan21 [ Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimmy Butler?
Deng is definitely an asset and an important player, but like you've all said, Deng doesn't fit the Bulls' primary need of scorers who can create something out of nothing.

Noah is probably the Bulls' most attractive asset. To make any sort of serious move, you would probably need to start by putting Noah on the table. I think the Deng as Kukoc analogy is apt, and having him around as your third best option is much better than having him as your second best option.
Author:  Nas [ Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimmy Butler?
veganfan21 wrote:
Deng is definitely an asset and an important player, but like you've all said, Deng doesn't fit the Bulls' primary need of scorers who can create something out of nothing.

Noah is probably the Bulls' most attractive asset. To make any sort of serious move, you would probably need to start by putting Noah on the table. I think the Deng as Kukoc analogy is apt, and having him around as your third best option is much better than having him as your second best option.


Deng is a great 3rd option and every now and then he shows flashes of being a 2nd option. He's definitely a winner.
Author:  veganfan21 [ Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimmy Butler?
Nas wrote:

Deng is a great 3rd option and every now and then he shows flashes of being a 2nd option. He's definitely a winner.


I agree with everything here except your assertion that he shows flashes of being a second option. The dude cannot create his own shot. I'll quote sinicalypse here:


sinicalypse wrote:

deng can't do an iso to save his life, he can't create his own shot outside of flailing at the basket and praying for a make/foul, and like.... shoot, the bulls need a #1 scorer first and foremost because rose can't be the #1 scorer/scoring-option on a championship team. while deng could be a decent lil piece as a high-profile role-player, he's never gonna be one of the reasons you win a championship, tho yeah sure he'd help.



He deserves credit for overcoming his lack of above-the-rim athletic ability to become an extremely useful, two-way player, but his lack of playmaking ability prevent him from taking his game to the next level.
Author:  FavreFan [ Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimmy Butler?
I agree that Deng is now expendable and with his contract expiring next season he should be easy to trade. I really hope they don't end up losing him for nothing at the next of next season. I'd like to see Butler at the 2 also but I'd like them to keep Bellinelli unless they plan on making a bigger move at SG.
Author:  notbob [ Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimmy Butler?
Nas wrote:
Has he shown enough to make you comfortable dealing Deng this summer or does he need more seasoning? I could see a Deng for Gasol deal in the making and Boozer getting traded or getting amnestied this summer.



i have thought about this as well. if you can get a nice 2g for him i'm not afraid. i am a deng fan. he's on of the top sf playing now. butler is more athletic then he is. he can dribble and create. something deng can't do. he may never shoot as well outside but i think he's a player.
Author:  veganfan21 [ Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimmy Butler?
The thing about improving the Bulls' roster is that each player cannot be viewed in isolation from everyone else. Butler's ascension is great, but Butler functioning at a high level doesn't really vault the Bulls into contention. A guy like Butler should absolutely be included in a larger package if it meant acquiring a dynamic player. I just don't think GarPax would do something like that; they are too smitten by the limited potential of their players.
Author:  SHARK [ Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimmy Butler?
Based on what I've seen, Jimmy Butler might be either a #2 guard alongside a fully healthy Derrick Rose next season or he could make Luol Deng expendable as soon as this summer. That's one school of thought ESPNChicago.com's Nick Friedell brought up with "Carmen & Jurko" today after Butler's big night in the loss to Toronto.
Author:  Hank Scorpio [ Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimmy Butler?
Douchebag wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Gary Gaetti did

But then the Cubs thought he had a SECOND last hurrah in him

Very nice post.

I loved the Gary Gaetti scrap heap pick-up in 1998. 1999 Gary Gaetti, that was something awful.

1998 still goes down as my favorite season of my lifetime. So many balls bounced the Cubs way that year. I almost believed the whole ghost of Harry and Brickhouse were helping the team. Rod Beck was pitching like 5 straight days down the stretch, and Terry Mulholland would start a game, and then come out of the pen two days later. Good stuff...


Very fun season. 2003 still wins the prize for my favorite/worst season. I havent watched as many games in a season since.
Author:  City of Fools [ Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Jimmy Butler?
Hank Scorpio wrote:
Douchebag wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Gary Gaetti did

But then the Cubs thought he had a SECOND last hurrah in him

Very nice post.

I loved the Gary Gaetti scrap heap pick-up in 1998. 1999 Gary Gaetti, that was something awful.

1998 still goes down as my favorite season of my lifetime. So many balls bounced the Cubs way that year. I almost believed the whole ghost of Harry and Brickhouse were helping the team. Rod Beck was pitching like 5 straight days down the stretch, and Terry Mulholland would start a game, and then come out of the pen two days later. Good stuff...


Very fun season. 2003 still wins the prize for my favorite/worst season. I havent watched as many games in a season since.

both seasons have one thing in common...the Cubs came out of nowhere after awful seasons. 2003 is the best in my book too, since it was the first year I had season tickets and therefore attended a ton of games...
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