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Time To Name Names
https://mail.chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=79268		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  good dolphin [ Fri May 17, 2013 12:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Time To Name Names
Derrick certainly deserves the scrutiny he has gotten. However, there are some other people in that decision making room who need to be named so that their contributions to this mess are not forgotten in the future. I specifically am looking at Blow Job Armstrong, the failed NBA exec and mildly accomplished player agent. Don't think for a second that it hasn't gotten JRs interest.

What other specific names need to be on this enemies list?
Author:  IkeSouth [ Sat May 18, 2013 9:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Time To Name Names
this thread is gay as shit. nobody cares why rose wont play. you dont ask a vagina why its wet you just say fuck it
Author:  Colonel Angus [ Sat May 18, 2013 11:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Time To Name Names
http://youtu.be/QaTbErVDQ40
Author:  bigfan [ Sun May 19, 2013 1:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Time To Name Names
BJ has some serious resentment towards the Bulls and JR. This cant be forgotten. Here he is, Assistant GM to Krause, and out of nowhere Reinsdorf picks Paxson.

The guy was being groomed as the GM. Going to Law School in the offseason, spending his free time in the front office.

Didnt even have the decency to actually say, "it's not working out" instead Jerry puts people in positions that make them feel diminished/disrespected and they quit on their own.

The man is a great negotiator, probably would have made a great baseball commish (Some say he is) and in the pure sense of what a Chairman is supposed to do 'Make money", couldn't get a better guy. But as the guy who hires and fires, operations, etc, terrible. Usually a 'Chairman' has someone do this work.
Author:  Curious Hair [ Sun May 19, 2013 2:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Time To Name Names
Jerry Reinsdorf is a great negotiator the way the current Republican Party is a great negotiator: dig in your feet and say "no" until you get your way. It's nice work if you can get it, but we're not all born with that kind of leverage. I wouldn't call it ability so much as fortunate position.
Author:  bigfan [ Sun May 19, 2013 4:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Time To Name Names
Curious Hair wrote:
Jerry Reinsdorf is a great negotiator the way the current Republican Party is a great negotiator: dig in your feet and say "no" until you get your way. It's nice work if you can get it, but we're not all born with that kind of leverage. I wouldn't call it ability so much as fortunate position.


I agree with you to some degree. This is what I am saying when they sign baseball players to long term deals. Whats the kids leverage, to say No and in 5 or 6 years become a star? Or take the money now. You take what they are offering you now.

However, you are wrong about Jerry. Yes, he has some leverage, but he built that leverage. Some of it unethically, but he still built it.

He offers future value deals, annuities, etc and then loves reporting present values to tell everyone how much money he is spending.

One and on.

But Curious Hair, for someone who is well recognized as being 'kinda smart', telling me me Jerry Reinsdorf was Born with leverage is 'kinda dumb'. The guy built what he had from the ground up and he has some great ability to negotiate deals. None much better than him. So not really sure if we are talking about the same guy,
Author:  pittmike [ Sun May 19, 2013 4:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Time To Name Names
I have no love for JR I guess I am indifferent. I like the Bulls and will always love the Sox. Anyway I digress isn't JR a pretty much self-made man? Poor NY jewish background. Say what you will he built his own lot and deserves respect from me anyway.
Author:  Curious Hair [ Sun May 19, 2013 5:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Time To Name Names
bigfan wrote:
for someone who is well recognized as being 'kinda smart'

Man, that cuts deep.
Author:  Curious Hair [ Sun May 19, 2013 5:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Time To Name Names
pittmike wrote:
Anyway I digress isn't JR a pretty much self-made man?

Actually, with Balcor and all that stuff, I don't think he was ever in the business of doing anything but gaming the system for tax dollars.

Quote:
He made his initial fortune in real estate, taking advantage of the Frank Lyon Co. v. United States decision by the United States Supreme Court which allowed economic owners of realty to sell property and lease it back, while transferring the tax deduction for depreciation to the title owner.

He didn't build that.
Author:  Brick [ Mon May 20, 2013 6:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Time To Name Names
Curious Hair wrote:
Jerry Reinsdorf is a great negotiator the way the current Republican Party is a great negotiator: dig in your feet and say "no" until you get your way. It's nice work if you can get it, but we're not all born with that kind of leverage. I wouldn't call it ability so much as fortunate position.
You show me any person with money, and I'll find a person who calls them "lucky".

If the massive amount of success Jerry has had was as easy as you seem to think it was then someone else would have done it too. What were the Bulls and White Sox before Jerry bought them? Where are they now?

Yes, he gets a pretty good deal from the city and state but compared to what many teams get it's a decent deal for the city and the state. There is a billionaire in Indianapolis who is a billionaire because he actually costs the city money. At best, the White Sox don't make the city as much money as they could and that is mostly because the attendance there sucks.
Author:  bigfan [ Mon May 20, 2013 6:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Time To Name Names
Curious Hair wrote:
pittmike wrote:
Anyway I digress isn't JR a pretty much self-made man?

Actually, with Balcor and all that stuff, I don't think he was ever in the business of doing anything but gaming the system for tax dollars.

Quote:
He made his initial fortune in real estate, taking advantage of the Frank Lyon Co. v. United States decision by the United States Supreme Court which allowed economic owners of realty to sell property and lease it back, while transferring the tax deduction for depreciation to the title owner.

He didn't build that.


You have no idea what you are talking about. I assume you are just looking up crap on Wiki at this point and you are about as wrong as wrong can be.

You think JR made a fortune before Balcor? You are wrong and yes, he did take advantage of the system.
Author:  good dolphin [ Mon May 20, 2013 8:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Time To Name Names
In a room full of smart men, JR is considered the smart man.

He built up a law firm as well.
Author:  rogers park bryan [ Mon May 20, 2013 9:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Time To Name Names
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
What were the Bulls and White Sox before Jerry bought them? Where are they now?

The Bulls won 6 titles with Jordan. Are the Sox that much better off? JORR tells me the White Sox used to be the more popular team. Seems like Jerry's ownership has coincided with second class status.



Was Jerry born into money?
Author:  Douchebag [ Mon May 20, 2013 9:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Time To Name Names
rogers park bryan wrote:
Was Jerry born into money?

He is Jewish...
Author:  Brick [ Mon May 20, 2013 9:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Time To Name Names
rogers park bryan wrote:
The Bulls won 6 titles with Jordan. Are the Sox that much better off? JORR tells me the White Sox used to be the more popular team. Seems like Jerry's ownership has coincided with second class status.
Go look at Forbes and see how much they are worth.
Author:  rogers park bryan [ Mon May 20, 2013 9:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Time To Name Names
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
The Bulls won 6 titles with Jordan. Are the Sox that much better off? JORR tells me the White Sox used to be the more popular team. Seems like Jerry's ownership has coincided with second class status.
Go look at Forbes and see how much they are worth.

Have they gained more worth than the average professional team?
Author:  Brick [ Mon May 20, 2013 9:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Time To Name Names
rogers park bryan wrote:
Have they gained more worth than the average professional team?
The Bulls became the third most valuable franchise in all of the NBA under Jerry's watch surpassing the Celtics. I don't know what Jerry Reinsdorf and friends paid for the White Sox, but presumably they've expanded better than most given the place they exist with the Cubs. I don't think the White Sox were ever the more popular team under Jerry. He's done an amazing job of bridging the value gap with the Cubs though.
Author:  Ugueth Will Shiv You [ Mon May 20, 2013 9:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Time To Name Names
Dr. Brian Cole.
Author:  Douchebag [ Mon May 20, 2013 9:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Time To Name Names
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
The Bulls won 6 titles with Jordan. Are the Sox that much better off? JORR tells me the White Sox used to be the more popular team. Seems like Jerry's ownership has coincided with second class status.
Go look at Forbes and see how much they are worth.

Jerry bought in at the right time. If you look at the value of any team between the early or mid 80's and present day, all the values have sky-rocketed.
Author:  Hatchetman [ Mon May 20, 2013 9:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Time To Name Names
When I look at 30-plus years of Sox management, I see so many ways things could have been managed better. Firing Harry, threatening to move, building a lame park in a bad location, ON-TV, poor PR, and most importantly, never building a solid baseball organization. Except for a handful of years, the Sox have had one of the worst minor league systems. Everything did fall into place in 2005, but really, if you own a team for 32 years and win one championship, isn't that pretty "average?"
Author:  rogers park bryan [ Mon May 20, 2013 9:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Time To Name Names
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Have they gained more worth than the average professional team?
The Bulls became the third most valuable franchise in all of the NBA under Jerry's watch surpassing the Celtics. I don't know what Jerry Reinsdorf and friends paid for the White Sox, but presumably they've expanded better than most given the place they exist with the Cubs. I don't think the White Sox were ever the more popular team under Jerry. He's done an amazing job of bridging the value gap with the Cubs though.

I wasnt saying they were more popular under Jerry. Im saying its apparently possible to be more popular than the Cubs, but Jerry hasnt found a way to do it.

Do you think the Bulls ascension should be credited to Jerry more than Michael Jordan?
Author:  Brick [ Mon May 20, 2013 9:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Time To Name Names
Douchebag wrote:
Jerry bought in at the right time. If you look at the value of any team between the early or mid 80's and present day, all the values have sky-rocketed.
The Bulls are more valuable than the Celtics. I don't know the answer, but do you think it was even close in the 80s? I assume the White Sox have done better than expected too.

Still, the whole "lucky" thing comes into play here. I doubt the White Sox were a top 10 franchise when Jerry bought it. Maybe they were though. That information is very hard to find.
Author:  rogers park bryan [ Mon May 20, 2013 9:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Time To Name Names
In 1981...
Jerry purchased the White Sox for 19 million
The Tribune purchased the Cubs for 21 million

In 2013
The White Sox are worth 692 M
The Cubs are worth 1 Billion


So the combination of Tribune/Zell/Ricketts ownership has been better
Author:  Brick [ Mon May 20, 2013 9:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Time To Name Names
rogers park bryan wrote:
I wasnt saying they were more popular under Jerry. Im saying its apparently possible to be more popular than the Cubs, but Jerry hasnt found a way to do it.
The Blackhawks were once bigger than the Bears. That doesn't mean it's possible now.
rogers park bryan wrote:
Do you think the Bulls ascension should be credited to Jerry more than Michael Jordan?
The Bulls are more valuable today than the Celtics. Jordan has been gone for 15 years.
Author:  Brick [ Mon May 20, 2013 9:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Time To Name Names
rogers park bryan wrote:
In 1981...
Jerry purchased the White Sox for 19 million
The Tribune purchased the Cubs for 21 million

In 2013
The White Sox are worth 692 M
The Cubs are worth 1 Billion


So the combination of Tribune/Zell/Ricketts ownership has been better
Wow. Good return for the Cubs too.
Author:  rogers park bryan [ Mon May 20, 2013 9:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Time To Name Names
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
I wasnt saying they were more popular under Jerry. Im saying its apparently possible to be more popular than the Cubs, but Jerry hasnt found a way to do it.
The Blackhawks were once bigger than the Bears. That doesn't mean it's possible now.

Really? When were the Hawks bigger than the Bears?

Boilermaker Rick wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Do you think the Bulls ascension should be credited to Jerry more than Michael Jordan?
The Bulls are more valuable today than the Celtics. Jordan has been gone for 15 years.

I know you are not silly enough to think that Michael Jordan and his legacy have no effect on the Bulls current value.
Author:  rogers park bryan [ Mon May 20, 2013 9:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Time To Name Names
I had to laugh at the Forbes summary. BigFan Approved for sure!

Profile

The White Sox have a terrific lease at U.S. Cellular Field. The team pays just $1.5 million in annual rent to the state, plus $3-7 for every ticket sold above annual attendance of 1.9 million. In return, the team keeps gross ticket receipts, and revenue from parking, concessions, signage and merchandise operations — including Chicago Sports Depot store and Bacardi at the Park, an adjacent restaurant that opened last spring that was financed by taxpayers. The White Sox do not pay rent on the properties, even though the Illinois Sports Facility Authority is paying the debt service on the restaurant project. The White Sox did pay for the build-out on the souvenir shop. Team owner Jerry Reinsdorf has leased the Bacardi restaurant to Gibsons Restaurant Group and the retail to Delaware North Companies Sportservice, which also runs the retail shops in the stadium.
Author:  Brick [ Mon May 20, 2013 9:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Time To Name Names
rogers park bryan wrote:
Really? When were the Hawks bigger than the Bears?
The hockey historians may know more than me, but I believe the Blackhawks peaked in popularity in the 60s. That would also mark a time where the NFL was not anywhere near the force it would become since it was mostly pre-Super Bowl era.
rogers park bryan wrote:
I know you are not silly enough to think that Michael Jordan and his legacy have no effect on the Bulls current value.
Where did I come close to saying that. I'm saying Jordan has been gone 15 years, and still the Bulls are bigger than the Celtics.
Author:  rogers park bryan [ Mon May 20, 2013 10:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Time To Name Names
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
I know you are not silly enough to think that Michael Jordan and his legacy have no effect on the Bulls current value.
Where did I come close to saying that. I'm saying Jordan has been gone 15 years, and still the Bulls are bigger than the Celtics.

I asked if Jordan should get more credit for the rise of the Bulls and you said "Jordan has been gone for 15 years"


How could I take that as anything other than you saying "Jordan has little or no impact anymore"?
Author:  Brick [ Mon May 20, 2013 10:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Time To Name Names
rogers park bryan wrote:
I asked if Jordan should get more credit for the rise of the Bulls and you said "Jordan has been gone for 15 years"


How could I take that as anything other than you saying "Jordan has little or no impact anymore"?
Because that isn't what it said?

I was pointing out that Jerry has continued to keep the Bulls above the Celtics who have their own rich history and even more recent success. No where did I say Jordan had little or no impact.
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