bigfan wrote:
or maybe Wade and lebron tell Bosh they are all taking a $8 M cut, then they dont sign after Bosh has...that sounds more like it
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| Trade Thibbs...and everyone else. https://mail.chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=83748 |
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| Author: | bigfan [ Thu Dec 12, 2013 6:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Trade Thibbs...and everyone else. |
No Jerry R organization has ever been great for the managers. They are another employee who work under the GM, who while they can have input they will never have power over the GM. In the case of the Bulls, you need to have power over the GM, then the VP, then the President, then the Chairman. so basically you have no real power. This group is grinding its teeth and just wandering through the forest blind right now. Thibbs knows other people want him and he is putting on a good face, but you know the guy just cant stand it here anymore. The injuries this team has had for 3 years now are a total joke. Loul, Rose, Noah, Even Boozer when he got here, Remember when Rip was going to run with D rose? Thibbs has almost never had a real full arsenal to work with for a long period of time. All that said, trade Thibbs for a first rounder to the knicks. Doc Rivers went for a 1st, and Thibbs is in that category. Of course it all goes back to breaking it all down. |
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| Author: | jimmypasta [ Thu Dec 12, 2013 6:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trade Thibbs...and everyone else. |
Agreed. I like Thibs but he's not the only guy that can coach. Shitcan the whole team |
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| Author: | FavreFan [ Thu Dec 12, 2013 8:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trade Thibbs...and everyone else. |
Knicks don't have a first round pick til 2037 though. And this is a dumb idea. Good coaches are harder to find in the NBA than probably any other league. Trading a top 3 one for a late round draft pick that may or may not even make the team doesn't really make sense, even if you are rebuilding, which the Bulls aren't. |
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| Author: | Curious Hair [ Thu Dec 12, 2013 8:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trade Thibbs...and everyone else. |
You're right. The Bulls aren't rebuilding. They're not contending, either. They're spinning their wheels in the mud and dropping hideous excuses for basketball games to Milwaukee and Utah. Maybe they should start rebuilding. |
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| Author: | Walt Williams Neck [ Thu Dec 12, 2013 8:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trade Thibbs...and everyone else. |
FavreFan wrote: Knicks don't have a first round pick til 2037 though. And this is a dumb idea. Good coaches are harder to find in the NBA than probably any other league. Trading a top 3 one for a late round draft pick that may or may not even make the team doesn't really make sense, even if you are rebuilding, which the Bulls aren't. Thibs doesn't like playing young players...so wtf are you talking about |
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| Author: | bigfan [ Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trade Thibbs...and everyone else. |
FavreFan wrote: Knicks don't have a first round pick til 2037 though. And this is a dumb idea. Good coaches are harder to find in the NBA than probably any other league. Trading a top 3 one for a late round draft pick that may or may not even make the team doesn't really make sense, even if you are rebuilding, which the Bulls aren't. the fact he is a great coach is what makes the deal possible. he is too good for this hierarchy. They just dont click, something needs to be done. I like Noah as well, but the guy is hurt all the time and I am sure his feet will not get better, you just cant rely upon. Deng will be gone. Gotta get rid of heinrich, that guy kills me. He's fine if he is my backup PG, but thats it, he just find the court too much because he doesnt play terrible. plays hard, blah blah. cant go back to back games. Rose will be back, like it or not. right now the Bulls are about a top 10 pick. trade more guys and you look at a top 5 pick? Aaron Gordon, 6'9" SCORING forward? Very smooth, quick, long, ...could go on and on. IF this Snell kid becomes our next Jimmy Buckets, Mirotic, gotta sign this kid 6'10" Kukoc Junior. The building blocks are there for you, make the move. |
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| Author: | Douchebag [ Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trade Thibbs...and everyone else. |
Lot's of bad in this thread. |
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| Author: | veganfan21 [ Thu Dec 12, 2013 10:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trade Thibbs...and everyone else. |
Garpax aren't bold enough to think that big. they're content to hang on to this new "core" despite the increasing likelihood that no success will be achieved yet again. For example I think trading Noah is a solid idea, his value is at its peak, but they're going to hang onto him due to stubbornness and an inability to be bold. Turn assets like Deng and Noah into picks and younger players for the immediate and long term future. Instead they'll let deng walk for nothing and watch Noah turn into a part time has-been due to injuries and too much mileage. Screw them. |
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| Author: | Mr. Reason [ Thu Dec 12, 2013 11:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trade Thibbs...and everyone else. |
BigFan was cheating on ESPN today. Didn't Larry have basically the same thoughts? |
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| Author: | Peoria Matt [ Thu Dec 12, 2013 11:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trade Thibbs...and everyone else. |
Mr. Reason wrote: BigFan was cheating on ESPN today. Didn't Larry have basically the same thoughts? Wow. That's a low blow. |
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| Author: | Mr. Reason [ Thu Dec 12, 2013 11:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trade Thibbs...and everyone else. |
Peoria Matt wrote: Mr. Reason wrote: BigFan was cheating on ESPN today. Didn't Larry have basically the same thoughts? Wow. That's a low blow. I'll see you in a week. |
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| Author: | Don Tiny [ Thu Dec 12, 2013 11:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trade Thibbs...and everyone else. |
Douchebag wrote: Lot's of bad in this thread. I assumed it was a secret contest. |
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| Author: | FavreFan [ Fri Dec 13, 2013 12:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trade Thibbs...and everyone else. |
Douchebag wrote: Lot's of bad in this thread. Yep. Not even gonna bother. |
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| Author: | Curious Hair [ Fri Dec 13, 2013 12:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trade Thibbs...and everyone else. |
Douchebag wrote: Lot's of bad in this thread. What do you think the Bulls should do? |
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| Author: | IkeSouth [ Fri Dec 13, 2013 1:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trade Thibbs...and everyone else. |
i would do a blatant fire sale and dive the whole thing. pay the fines, get the publicity and win a title. |
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| Author: | Douchebag [ Fri Dec 13, 2013 8:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trade Thibbs...and everyone else. |
Curious Hair wrote: Douchebag wrote: Lot's of bad in this thread. What do you think the Bulls should do? Stand pat. This is obviously a lost season, but the flexibility and moves they can make in the upcoming offseason outweigh any meatball knee-jerk reaction that they could possibly make. |
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| Author: | veganfan21 [ Fri Dec 13, 2013 8:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trade Thibbs...and everyone else. |
Douchebag wrote: Curious Hair wrote: Douchebag wrote: Lot's of bad in this thread. What do you think the Bulls should do? Stand pat. This is obviously a lost season, but the flexibility and moves they can make in the upcoming offseason outweigh any meatball knee-jerk reaction that they could possibly make. I don't think dealing Deng and/or Noah is a knee-jerk reaction to the lost season. There's no reason to keep a core that won't get you closer to a championship, even with a fully healthy Rose next year. This brings to mind Paxson inexplicably keeping the Deng-Hinrich-Gordon core together even though the ceiling for that team was acting as second round scrimmage for a more talented team. |
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| Author: | Douchebag [ Fri Dec 13, 2013 8:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trade Thibbs...and everyone else. |
veganfan21 wrote: Douchebag wrote: Curious Hair wrote: Douchebag wrote: Lot's of bad in this thread. What do you think the Bulls should do? Stand pat. This is obviously a lost season, but the flexibility and moves they can make in the upcoming offseason outweigh any meatball knee-jerk reaction that they could possibly make. I don't think dealing Deng and/or Noah is a knee-jerk reaction to the lost season. There's no reason to keep a core that won't get you closer to a championship, even with a fully healthy Rose next year. This brings to mind Paxson inexplicably keeping the Deng-Hinrich-Gordon core together even though the ceiling for that team was acting as second round scrimmage for a more talented team. Trading Deng is just going to net the team a contract that the Bulls will have to hold multiple seasons. Nobody is going to trade for an expiring contract with another expiring contract. |
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| Author: | bigfan [ Fri Dec 13, 2013 8:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trade Thibbs...and everyone else. |
Mr. Reason wrote: BigFan was cheating on ESPN today. Didn't Larry have basically the same thoughts? Actually, I have been on this for awhile. Anyone remember the Old Core of the Bulls. Gordon, Deng and Heinrich? We couldnt break that up either. Its the same people running the show, the same train of thought, that what they have is the best out there and I think at this point we can say it was wrong. Yet, they love what they do so much they resign Heinrich and now they are still going to try and resign Deng! Ben Gordon will be next! Noah, is a great piece for winning team. Yet, he needs to be around when it matters and the guy is not built to be around for a whole season, so you do need to rest him, but Thibbs doesnt rest people. This team has a ton of great parts and a great coach, but they just dont work well together. |
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| Author: | veganfan21 [ Fri Dec 13, 2013 9:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trade Thibbs...and everyone else. |
Douchebag wrote: Trading Deng is just going to net the team a contract that the Bulls will have to hold multiple seasons. Nobody is going to trade for an expiring contract with another expiring contract. Valid point, but I guess I am coming at this from a more exploratory perspective, as opposed to a holding pattern strategy that suggests waiting for Rose to return will vault the Bulls back into contention. I want them to explore everything, including picks or cheap labor they can get for Deng (as opposed to letting him walk while he still has good value at 28 years old), what the market for Noah looks like, etc. If the past (Hamilton, Dunleavy) is any indication, the only major change is going to be signing yet another limited, unathletic swingman who can only hit a shot when wide open. That's not enough. |
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| Author: | FavreFan [ Fri Dec 13, 2013 11:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trade Thibbs...and everyone else. |
veganfan21 wrote: Douchebag wrote: Trading Deng is just going to net the team a contract that the Bulls will have to hold multiple seasons. Nobody is going to trade for an expiring contract with another expiring contract. Valid point, but I guess I am coming at this from a more exploratory perspective, as opposed to a holding pattern strategy that suggests waiting for Rose to return will vault the Bulls back into contention. I want them to explore everything, including picks or cheap labor they can get for Deng (as opposed to letting him walk while he still has good value at 28 years old), what the market for Noah looks like, etc. If the past (Hamilton, Dunleavy) is any indication, the only major change is going to be signing yet another limited, unathletic swingman who can only hit a shot when wide open. That's not enough. Of course they should be looking at every deal out there. That's not the same as pulling the trigger on one. Unlike the NFL, draft picks are basically worthless in the NBA outside of the lottery. I wouldn't deal Deng for anything except a top 7-10 protected(or unprotected if you can get Billy King on the phone) 1st rounder, and I wouldn't take anything other than an expiring contract. I wouldn't trade Noah unless I'm getting a top 25 player back. He's too good. And to your last point, this summer and next the Bulls will have even more flexibility than in 2010. They are gonna get a much better player this summer regardless of other moves they make. |
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| Author: | Curious Hair [ Fri Dec 13, 2013 11:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trade Thibbs...and everyone else. |
Douchebag wrote: Curious Hair wrote: Douchebag wrote: Lot's of bad in this thread. What do you think the Bulls should do? Stand pat. This is obviously a lost season, but the flexibility and moves they can make in the upcoming offseason outweigh any meatball knee-jerk reaction that they could possibly make. You're not worried that the window is closing on the efficacy for both Rose and Noah? |
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| Author: | FavreFan [ Fri Dec 13, 2013 11:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trade Thibbs...and everyone else. |
Curious Hair wrote: Douchebag wrote: Curious Hair wrote: Douchebag wrote: Lot's of bad in this thread. What do you think the Bulls should do? Stand pat. This is obviously a lost season, but the flexibility and moves they can make in the upcoming offseason outweigh any meatball knee-jerk reaction that they could possibly make. You're not worried that the window is closing on the efficacy for both Rose and Noah? Noah is only 28 and he's gotten better every year he's been in the league. I'd say that's a no. I have no idea what Rose will be like from here on out but yeah id say he at least deserves your cynicism. |
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| Author: | Curious Hair [ Fri Dec 13, 2013 12:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trade Thibbs...and everyone else. |
"Only" 28? He's in his seventh pro season and he's always out with one injury or another. I'm almost more worried about him than Rose, honestly. |
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| Author: | FavreFan [ Fri Dec 13, 2013 12:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trade Thibbs...and everyone else. |
Curious Hair wrote: "Only" 28? He's in his seventh pro season and he's always out with one injury or another. I'm almost more worried about him than Rose, honestly. This isn't nearly as bad as you're implying. The injuries are problematic but not enough to write him off considering how valuable he is when he does play. Last two seasons he played in 75%+ games, and that was with a huge increased workload last year. He still had enough left at the end of the season to play the best game of his career in that Game 7 win. It would be stupid as hell to trade him for expiring contracts and/or meaningless late round picks. |
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| Author: | bigfan [ Fri Dec 13, 2013 12:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trade Thibbs...and everyone else. |
Why do I think lebron, wade and Bosh are going to all take a $5 mill paycut, as they can opt out this year, resign new deals with Miami and then sign Carmelo? or something like this ... or maybe Wade and lebron tell Bosh they are all taking a $8 M cut, then they dont sign after Bosh has...that sounds more like it |
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| Author: | FavreFan [ Fri Dec 13, 2013 12:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trade Thibbs...and everyone else. |
bigfan wrote: or maybe Wade and lebron tell Bosh they are all taking a $8 M cut, then they dont sign after Bosh has...that sounds more like it
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| Author: | Douchebag [ Fri Dec 13, 2013 12:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trade Thibbs...and everyone else. |
Lebron and Wade should tell Bosh they are both signing with the Bobcats. |
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| Author: | veganfan21 [ Fri Dec 13, 2013 1:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trade Thibbs...and everyone else. |
FavreFan wrote: Curious Hair wrote: "Only" 28? He's in his seventh pro season and he's always out with one injury or another. I'm almost more worried about him than Rose, honestly. This isn't nearly as bad as you're implying. The injuries are problematic but not enough to write him off considering how valuable he is when he does play. Last two seasons he played in 75%+ games, and that was with a huge increased workload last year. He still had enough left at the end of the season to play the best game of his career in that Game 7 win. It would be stupid as hell to trade him for expiring contracts and/or meaningless late round picks. As you know the idea of trading Noah at peak value wouldn't be to procure expiring contacts and or late picks. I don't know what the market for him is like, but I hope they're open to trading him for the right package. He does a handful of things really well, but it doesn't make sense to retain him at 27/28 as your best player while being unsure about your immediate chances at contending. Deal him for a younger building block that can either supplement or replace Rose. Holding on to your best, tradeable asset makes more sense when his value leads to greater chances of winning. That's not the case anymore. He's less valuable to the bottom line (W/L) since rose went out, since basically everyone's value is connected to Rose's health. |
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| Author: | IkeSouth [ Fri Dec 13, 2013 2:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Trade Thibbs...and everyone else. |
Douchebag wrote: Lebron and Wade should tell Bosh they are both signing with the Bobcats. that would be so awesome. who would take credit at the ring ceremony? lebron or jordan? |
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