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Tom Thibodeau denied a Doug Collins hire... https://mail.chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=94190 |
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Author: | Beardown [ Wed May 27, 2015 10:40 pm ] |
Post subject: | Tom Thibodeau denied a Doug Collins hire... |
as an offensive assistant for the 2013 season. Per KC Johnson. We all know KC is Paxon's PR guy. KC withheld the "pulling tie" story of Vinnie cuz he's friends with Paxon. Told it to a TNT guy who reported it. KC didn't know he was gonna do that. So KC knew this Doug Collins thing for 2 years. What happened here is Paxon gave KC permission to leak this to let Bulls fans know they could have been better offensively. Paxon has been taking hits and wants to put something out there that would help him. Cowley is the Thibs guy at the Sun Times. KC is the Paxon guy at the Trib. |
Author: | Curious Hair [ Wed May 27, 2015 10:49 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Tom Thibodeau denied a Doug Collins hire... |
Jerry Reinsdorf denied a Doug Collins head-coaching hire in 2008. Things happen, it's all they ever do, man. |
Author: | billypootons [ Wed May 27, 2015 10:56 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Tom Thibodeau denied a Doug Collins hire... |
KC is the worst beat guy in the city.... he sits on shit forever for fear of losing sources with management, i did not miss him at all when he was exclusive to the "GAME" I dont blame gru for not wanting a JR/Garpax loyalist on his coaching staff |
Author: | Nas [ Wed May 27, 2015 10:57 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Tom Thibodeau denied a Doug Collins hire... |
I wouldn't hire a Bulls guy either after they fired my best friend and top assistant. That being said Doug would have been a great hire. |
Author: | Nas [ Wed May 27, 2015 10:58 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Tom Thibodeau denied a Doug Collins hire... |
The Bulls look bad. |
Author: | Scorehead [ Wed May 27, 2015 10:59 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Tom Thibodeau denied a Doug Collins hire... |
Hoiberg has already been hired. |
Author: | Nas [ Wed May 27, 2015 11:12 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Tom Thibodeau denied a Doug Collins hire... |
Scorehead wrote: Hoiberg has already been hired. He was hired in December. |
Author: | conns7901 [ Wed May 27, 2015 11:14 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Tom Thibodeau denied a Doug Collins hire... |
Scorehead wrote: Hoiberg has already been hired. Hopefully another bad Iowa St hire leads to GarPax being fired. |
Author: | long time guy [ Wed May 27, 2015 11:24 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Tom Thibodeau denied a Doug Collins hire... |
The story about Thibs not wanting to hire an assistant coach to coach offense is but another indictment of him. It's also another reason for him to be fired. It was painful watching the Bulls offense this yr. That offense was constructed by Thibs. If he was too stubborn or stupid to see that he needs help in constructing an offense then he needs to go. |
Author: | Nas [ Wed May 27, 2015 11:26 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Tom Thibodeau denied a Doug Collins hire... |
conns7901 wrote: Scorehead wrote: Hoiberg has already been hired. Hopefully another bad Iowa St hire leads to GarPax being fired. Not many people get to hire and fire 4 coaches in 12 years and keep their jobs. |
Author: | long time guy [ Wed May 27, 2015 11:27 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Tom Thibodeau denied a Doug Collins hire... |
Nas wrote: conns7901 wrote: Scorehead wrote: Hoiberg has already been hired. Hopefully another bad Iowa St hire leads to GarPax being fired. Not many people get to hire and fire 4 coaches in 12 years and keep their jobs. Do I need to introduce you to one Elgin Baylor |
Author: | Nas [ Wed May 27, 2015 11:29 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Tom Thibodeau denied a Doug Collins hire... |
long time guy wrote: The story about Thibs not wanting to hire an assistant coach to coach offense is but another indictment of him. It's also another reason for him to be fired. It was painful watching the Bulls offense this yr. That offense was constructed by Thibs. If he was too stubborn or stupid to see that he needs help in constructing an offense then he needs to go. The Bulls fired his top assistant and best friend (who's coaching in the Finals ) and expected him to hire a Bulls guy. I'm sure Doug didn't call on his own. |
Author: | Nas [ Wed May 27, 2015 11:30 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Tom Thibodeau denied a Doug Collins hire... |
long time guy wrote: Nas wrote: conns7901 wrote: Scorehead wrote: Hoiberg has already been hired. Hopefully another bad Iowa St hire leads to GarPax being fired. Not many people get to hire and fire 4 coaches in 12 years and keep their jobs. Do I need to introduce you to one Elgin Baylor |
Author: | Nas [ Wed May 27, 2015 11:35 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Tom Thibodeau denied a Doug Collins hire... |
It looks like next year will be a transition year. The Bulls are in position to sign at least 1 major free agent in 2016 when the new tv deal increases the cap by at least $30M. |
Author: | long time guy [ Wed May 27, 2015 11:36 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Tom Thibodeau denied a Doug Collins hire... |
Nas wrote: long time guy wrote: The story about Thibs not wanting to hire an assistant coach to coach offense is but another indictment of him. It's also another reason for him to be fired. It was painful watching the Bulls offense this yr. That offense was constructed by Thibs. If he was too stubborn or stupid to see that he needs help in constructing an offense then he needs to go. The Bulls fired his top assistant and best friend (who's coaching in the Finals ) and expected him to hire a Bulls guy. I'm sure Doug didn't call on his own. He should have hired an offensive guy that was not Bulls affiliated if that was truly the case. You dont however bite off your nose to spite your face. That in essence is what he did. He also kept focusing on defensive lapses throughout the yr as a means of taking away from his shaky offensive schemes. Very few people talked about the anemic offense during the season. That was always a larger concern of mine and during the playoffs you saw just how awful and predictable his offense truly is. |
Author: | Nas [ Wed May 27, 2015 11:44 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Tom Thibodeau denied a Doug Collins hire... |
The Bulls were actually better offensively this year despite only having their starters play about 20 games together. The playoffs were different. Even with injuries you can't have 6 mins stretches where you don't score. Some people blame that on coaching. That's fine. I saw players missing uncontested shots and layups or Rose playing hero ball. When he misses 13 straight shots he shouldn't be on the floor. |
Author: | ZephMarshack [ Wed May 27, 2015 11:53 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Tom Thibodeau denied a Doug Collins hire... |
I especially like the spin from Johnson that Collins volunteered himself to Thibodeau, with no prompting or discussion whatsoever with the front office. That certainly doesn't set off my bullshit detector! |
Author: | Nas [ Wed May 27, 2015 11:56 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Tom Thibodeau denied a Doug Collins hire... |
ZephMarshack wrote: I especially like the spin from Johnson that Collins volunteered himself to Thibodeau, with no prompting or discussion whatsoever with the front office. That certainly doesn't set off my bullshit detector! Thibs had to have a good laugh at that. Regardless of if you like Thibs or not this front office is weird. Jerry must be dead. |
Author: | conns7901 [ Wed May 27, 2015 11:58 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Tom Thibodeau denied a Doug Collins hire... |
So can we all agree Gasol who is the player who got Thibbs fired? |
Author: | long time guy [ Thu May 28, 2015 12:06 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Tom Thibodeau denied a Doug Collins hire... |
Nas wrote: ZephMarshack wrote: I especially like the spin from Johnson that Collins volunteered himself to Thibodeau, with no prompting or discussion whatsoever with the front office. That certainly doesn't set off my bullshit detector! Thibs had to have a good laugh at that. Regardless of if you like Thibs or not this front office is weird. Jerry must be dead. Whether it was Collins or not he should have hired someone to help with the offense. Please don't say that the offense improved from last year either. They had one of the worst offenses in the league last yr. Anything would be an improvement but the improvement had to do far more with the addition of Gasol, Rose, Mirotic, plus the improvement of Butler. It was not due to Thibs becoming an offensive guru. That's for sure. |
Author: | ZephMarshack [ Thu May 28, 2015 12:09 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Tom Thibodeau denied a Doug Collins hire... |
long time guy wrote: Nas wrote: ZephMarshack wrote: I especially like the spin from Johnson that Collins volunteered himself to Thibodeau, with no prompting or discussion whatsoever with the front office. That certainly doesn't set off my bullshit detector! Thibs had to have a good laugh at that. Regardless of if you like Thibs or not this front office is weird. Jerry must be dead. Whether it was Collins or not he should have hired someone to help with the offense. Please don't say that the offense improved from last year either. They had one of the worst offenses in the league last yr. Anything would be an improvement but the improvement had to do far more with the addition of Gasol, Rose, Mirotic, plus the improvement of Butler. It was not due to Thibs becoming an offensive guru. That's for sure. If the players caused the improvement this year, then wouldn't it follow a lack of players accounted for the poor offenses in previous years? |
Author: | long time guy [ Thu May 28, 2015 12:22 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Tom Thibodeau denied a Doug Collins hire... |
Definitely. They lacked offensive personnel in previous yrs but I think that was due in part to management deferring to Thibs while making personnel moves. This was the first yr that management has made an effort to acquire offensive minded players. Each player brought in after last year were players that were not defensive minded and hence non Thibs like players. GarPax obviously was trying to make a break from the try hard score little Bulls teams that Thibs loves so much. I think Garpax made a concerted effort to acquire players that would suit Thibs coaching style in previous yrs. Last off season they junked that approach as a means of generating more offense. There is no doubt in my mind but in acquiring more firepower they also hoped to expose Thibs as a coach. They accomplished both goals in my opinion. |
Author: | ZephMarshack [ Thu May 28, 2015 12:28 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Tom Thibodeau denied a Doug Collins hire... |
You're far too charitable IMO. I don't think the management was deferring to Thibs at all in previous years but merely has no real idea what they want and have gone along with what seems trendy for years now, even pre-dating the current coach. This post on blogabull captures this well: Quote: There was a really funny quote from Paxson about their minute restrictions being "common sense" I'd also point out that the offensive players they went out to acquire increased rather than decreased the likelihood of continuing to play a standard halfcourt set. Gasol can still score but you can't really use him at this age for the kind of motion-based offense you're going to get from a guy like Hoiberg.
Which, of course, doesn’t explain Paxson’s lack of common sense minutes restrictions over his first dozen years of running the team. To be honest, I’ve come to the conclusion that Paxson is much less Notre Dame smarty-pants and much more dumb jock than I used to. If you look at his history, he’s basically gone for trends over and over again. 1. His first iteration was building a team based on defense and role players in the Pistons mold. He was all about "accountability" and "building a culture of winning" 2. That flamed out and he attempted to go in the complete opposite direction by hiring Mike D’Antoni. D’Antoni is mainly famous for being the exact opposite of the philosophy Paxson had spent years preaching. 3. And of course, he up and quit because being a full-time GM was too stressful. 4. The ultimate hire, VDN, was basically at Doug Collins’ suggestion, and after Paxson assaulted him (so much for the accountability), the next hire, Thibs, was basically Reinsdorf’s decision. Pax was pretty quiet the last few years, mainly emerging to talk about how they valued playing hard and full throttle all the time. And how preparation and playing hard translated into the playoffs. 5. Then, we’ve got this year’s Pax, who once again has done a heel turn and thinks its "common sense" to rest up when the players feel like it. Not because they’re actually hurt, but… because that’ll keep them fresh and unprepared for the high-stress playoffs. Basically, the guy has completely changed his tune several times. If there’s any sort of core philosophy driving his thoughts on basketball, I’d like to know what it is. |
Author: | Rod [ Thu May 28, 2015 6:21 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Tom Thibodeau denied a Doug Collins hire... |
long time guy wrote: Nas wrote: conns7901 wrote: Scorehead wrote: Hoiberg has already been hired. Hopefully another bad Iowa St hire leads to GarPax being fired. Not many people get to hire and fire 4 coaches in 12 years and keep their jobs. Do I need to introduce you to one Elgin Baylor Theo Epstein hires and fires a manager every other year and he's the best in the business. |
Author: | Rod [ Thu May 28, 2015 6:26 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Tom Thibodeau denied a Doug Collins hire... |
Nas wrote: ZephMarshack wrote: I especially like the spin from Johnson that Collins volunteered himself to Thibodeau, with no prompting or discussion whatsoever with the front office. That certainly doesn't set off my bullshit detector! Thibs had to have a good laugh at that. Regardless of if you like Thibs or not this front office is weird. Jerry must be dead. Jerry is weird. I think he likes internal struggle and soap opera type shit with his teams. |
Author: | sinicalypse [ Thu May 28, 2015 6:58 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Tom Thibodeau denied a Doug Collins hire... |
Nas wrote: I wouldn't hire a Bulls guy either after they fired my best friend and top assistant. That being said Doug would have been a great hire. hear hear. say what you want about doug but his rick neuhisel brand PASSION BUCKET is always filled to the point of spilling some on the floor! |
Author: | Nas [ Thu May 28, 2015 7:35 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Tom Thibodeau denied a Doug Collins hire... |
Saying that the Bulls brought in anti Thibs guys this year is wrong. He went out and helped recruit Marshmelo. Marshmelo has played defense only a handful of times his entire career. Thibs also recruited Gasol. He knew Mirotic was coming over too. Thibs never had an issue with guys that weren't great defensively. His belief was he could coach them up. In years past he was able to. This year he didn't have as much consistent success. Not sure if it was because the Bulls were undermining him or not. |
Author: | veganfan21 [ Thu May 28, 2015 7:39 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Tom Thibodeau denied a Doug Collins hire... |
Nas wrote: Saying that the Bulls brought in anti Thibs guys this year is wrong. He went out and helped recruit Marshmelo. Marshmelo has played defense only a handful of times his entire career. Thibs also recruited Gasol. He knew Mirotic was coming over too. Thibs never had an issue with guys that weren't great defensively. His belief was he could coach them up. In years past he was able to. This year he didn't have as much consistent success. Not sure if it was because the Bulls were undermining him or not. The players quit on him just like they quit on skiles. It happens with coaches like Thibs and Skiles because they haven't figured out how and when to relax. |
Author: | bigfan [ Thu May 28, 2015 8:08 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Tom Thibodeau denied a Doug Collins hire... |
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: Nas wrote: ZephMarshack wrote: I especially like the spin from Johnson that Collins volunteered himself to Thibodeau, with no prompting or discussion whatsoever with the front office. That certainly doesn't set off my bullshit detector! Thibs had to have a good laugh at that. Regardless of if you like Thibs or not this front office is weird. Jerry must be dead. Jerry is weird. I think he likes internal struggle and soap opera type shit with his teams. Been telling you this for years....not saying it makes him weird, but enjoys watching the war from above and then coming in to save the day. Its just called an ego, I think every billionaire has one. |
Author: | Nas [ Thu May 28, 2015 8:23 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Tom Thibodeau denied a Doug Collins hire... |
I don't think the players quit. There just wasn't the consistency we were used to seeing. I believe that Noah and Taj being bad to mediocre to bad most of the season played a role. |
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