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Scorehead wrote:

Thibs had to go.

He was sacrificed due to terrible personnel decisions that predated Thibodeau's Bulls tenure and will continue into the Hoiberg era.

I cannot quite grasp how any self-respecting Bulls fan can blame coaching over personnel.

Just create a pros and cons list of good trades / draft picks / free agent signings versus bad trades / draft picks / free agent signings.

Hell, even coach signings. How many coaches will Paxson and Forman get?

IMU wrote:

Scorehead wrote:

Thibs had to go.

If you are abraisive and rub everyone the wrong way, and dont get along with anyone including your bosses, you will be fired.

Scorehead wrote:

Thibs had to go.

IMU wrote:

Scorehead wrote:

Thibs had to go.

People around the NBA had the Bulls as a top 5 NBA team. Where are all these terrible personnel moves that you speak of?

long time guy wrote:

IMU wrote:

Scorehead wrote:

Thibs had to go.

People around the NBA had the Bulls as a top 5 NBA team. Where are all these terrible personnel moves that you speak of?

I listed them in a previous thread.

Use the forum function to search:

John Salmons / Brad Miller / Drew Gooden / Larry Hughes / Ben Wallace / Jamal Crawford / Dikembo Mutombo / JR Smith / Carlos Boozer / Tyrus Thomas / Lamarcus Aldridge

Paxson once acquired Dikembe Mutombo? I must have slipped that one. You are grasping on some of those. The Major moves were Wallace/bad. Thomas/bad. Aldridge/bad. Boozer/good. Boozer was nor as bad as Thibs made him out to be. Boozer was really good that first year and wasn't that bad his last yr. Overall it was a good pickup.

Letting Crawford go was a good move. The Knicks overpaid for him and he is a career backup. Jamal Crawford has never been past the second round of the playoffs. Talk about a classic case of revisionism.
The other guys are really not worth mentioning.

Good moves
Gasol
Rose
Butler
Noah
Gordon
Deng
Gibson
Hinrich
Robinson
Bellineli
Boozer
Mirotic
Dunleavy
Augustine

On August 5th, 2004, the Chicago Bulls signed-and-traded guard Jamal Crawford and traded forward Jerome Williams to the New York Knicks for forward Othella Harrington, centers Dikembe Mutombo and Cezary Trybanski and guard Frank Williams.

long time guy wrote:

Yes. In the Jamal Crawford trade you mentioned.

Quote:

7 years $56M was not overpaying for Jamal Crawford. Think about how much an excellent scoring two guard could have helped the Bulls over the years.

The Bulls got jackshit back.

When Tyson Chandler was still alive, the Bulls traded him to the Hornets for PJ Brown and JR Smith. JR Smith never suited up for the Bulls. They had to flip him for second rounders (that became JamesOn Curry and Aaron Gray)

Robinson, Augustin, Watson...those guys were Thibs. Pay attention to their careers elsewhere. Not so great, eh?

Gibson's contract is icky, and he will likely need to be moved to accommodate Hoiberg's offense. Gasol will maybe need to come off the bench.

Ben Gordon? Really? You hate ETwaun Moore but Ben Gordon is the goods?

You're confusing.

Moving Chandler to sign Wallace is one of the dumbest personnel moves in Chicago sports history. Crawford took awhile to find himself but overall he's been more valuable than Gordon. Gordon really hasn't done anything since leaving Chicago.

Ben Gordon was a 20 point scorer and 6th man award winner and no one steps up when you state that Etwaun Moore is better. Jamal Crawford is a career loser. He shot around 40% during the entire time he was with the Bulls. Ben Gordon was a far better player while with the Bulls than Jamal Crawford. It was not even close. He had much more impact.

long time guy wrote:

1) Ben Gordon didn't shoot a much higher percentage.
2) He scored 20 PPG once.
3) Jamal Crawford is also a sixth man winner.
4) I'm not comparing Ben Gordon's first 4 years as a Bull vs Jamal Crawford's first 4 years as a Bull. I'm comparing their careers. Jamal Crawford has had a full career. Ben Gordon couldn't stay in the league.
5) The worst player in the league can score 20 PPG if given enough shot attempts. Early 2000's to mid 2000's Bulls teams did not have a lot of scoring options.

Author:	Nas [ Tue Jun 02, 2015 2:04 pm ]
Post subject:	Press Conference
Bunch of bullshit. No one believes they visited with Fred for the first time this past weekend.

Author:	bigfan [ Tue Jun 02, 2015 2:05 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Press Conference
"Fred's a GREAT GREAT communicator"....per Gar....

Author:	bigfan [ Tue Jun 02, 2015 2:06 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Press Conference
Gar....LIAR LIAR

Author:	Nas [ Tue Jun 02, 2015 2:06 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Press Conference
bigfan wrote: Gar....LIAR LIAR He told a bunch of lies in like 2 mins.

Author:	bigfan [ Tue Jun 02, 2015 2:07 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Press Conference

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Press Conference https://mail.chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=94268	Page 1 of 2

Author:	denisdman [ Tue Jun 02, 2015 2:07 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Press Conference
GarForehead!

Author:	bigfan [ Tue Jun 02, 2015 2:08 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Press Conference
Who gets him first? ESPN WSCR WMAQ?

Author:	Nas [ Tue Jun 02, 2015 2:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Press Conference
The "human element" is important when it comes to coaching.

Author:	bigfan [ Tue Jun 02, 2015 2:19 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Press Conference
No mention of how Fred will work in charity events....thats a major part of the job!

Author:	bigfan [ Tue Jun 02, 2015 2:42 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Press Conference
Great Communicator= Will do what we say

Author:	Rod [ Tue Jun 02, 2015 2:50 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Press Conference
Fred is already better than Thibs at managing up.

Author:	IMU [ Tue Jun 02, 2015 2:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Press Conference
The current personnel just will not fit in Hoiberg's system... this is more clear as the press conference continued into detail.

Author:	Scorehead [ Tue Jun 02, 2015 5:18 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Press Conference
Again, what was Gar Pax supposed to say? They chose Thibs replacement before they fired him. Smart move. Thibs had to go. I like Fred.

Author:	IMU [ Tue Jun 02, 2015 5:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Press Conference
Scorehead wrote: Thibs had to go. He was sacrificed due to terrible personnel decisions that predated Thibodeau's Bulls tenure and will continue into the Hoiberg era. I cannot quite grasp how any self-respecting Bulls fan can blame coaching over personnel. Just create a pros and cons list of good trades / draft picks / free agent signings versus bad trades / draft picks / free agent signings. Hell, even coach signings. How many coaches will Paxson and Forman get?

Author:	Peoria Matt [ Tue Jun 02, 2015 5:55 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Press Conference
This Reinsdorf situation is a whole different animal. Rarely are execs fired.....just coaches. Bulls haven't sniffed a title in years yet the top guys remain in place. Bears and Bulls....both with very odd owners.

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Author:	Scorehead [ Tue Jun 02, 2015 5:34 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Press Conference
IMU wrote: Scorehead wrote: Thibs had to go. He was sacrificed due to terrible personnel decisions that predated Thibodeau's Bulls tenure and will continue into the Hoiberg era. I cannot quite grasp how any self-respecting Bulls fan can blame coaching over personnel. Just create a pros and cons list of good trades / draft picks / free agent signings versus bad trades / draft picks / free agent signings. Hell, even coach signings. How many coaches will Paxson and Forman get? If you are abraisive and rub everyone the wrong way, and dont get along with anyone including your bosses, you will be fired.

Author:	IMU [ Tue Jun 02, 2015 5:35 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Press Conference
Scorehead wrote: IMU wrote: Scorehead wrote: Thibs had to go. He was sacrificed due to terrible personnel decisions that predated Thibodeau's Bulls tenure and will continue into the Hoiberg era. I cannot quite grasp how any self-respecting Bulls fan can blame coaching over personnel. Just create a pros and cons list of good trades / draft picks / free agent signings versus bad trades / draft picks / free agent signings. Hell, even coach signings. How many coaches will Paxson and Forman get? If you are abraisive and rub everyone the wrong way, and dont get along with anyone including your bosses, you will be fired. Yes. Fine. Whatever. I want to fire 'the bosses.' Usually, guys at the top level of a business / organization should be able to identify the weak points in management and/or personnel. Jerry failed.

Author:	long time guy [ Tue Jun 02, 2015 6:47 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Press Conference
IMU wrote: Scorehead wrote: Thibs had to go. He was sacrificed due to terrible personnel decisions that predated Thibodeau's Bulls tenure and will continue into the Hoiberg era. I cannot quite grasp how any self-respecting Bulls fan can blame coaching over personnel. Just create a pros and cons list of good trades / draft picks / free agent signings versus bad trades / draft picks / free agent signings. Hell, even coach signings. How many coaches will Paxson and Forman get? People around the NBA had the Bulls as a top 5 NBA team. Where are all these terrible personnel moves that you speak of?

Author:	IMU [ Tue Jun 02, 2015 7:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Press Conference
long time guy wrote: IMU wrote: Scorehead wrote: Thibs had to go. He was sacrificed due to terrible personnel decisions that predated Thibodeau's Bulls tenure and will continue into the Hoiberg era. I cannot quite grasp how any self-respecting Bulls fan can blame coaching over personnel. Just create a pros and cons list of good trades / draft picks / free agent signings versus bad trades / draft picks / free agent signings. Hell, even coach signings. How many coaches will Paxson and Forman get? People around the NBA had the Bulls as a top 5 NBA team. Where are all these terrible personnel moves that you speak of? I listed them in a previous thread. Use the forum function to search: John Salmons / Brad Miller / Drew Gooden / Larry Hughes / Ben Wallace / Jamal Crawford / Dikembo Mutombo / JR Smith / Carlos Boozer / Tyrus Thomas / Lamarcus Aldridge

Author:	long time guy [ Tue Jun 02, 2015 7:24 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Press Conference
IMU wrote: long time guy wrote: IMU wrote: Scorehead wrote: Thibs had to go. He was sacrificed due to terrible personnel decisions that predated Thibodeau's Bulls tenure and will continue into the Hoiberg era. I cannot quite grasp how any self-respecting Bulls fan can blame coaching over personnel. Just create a pros and cons list of good trades / draft picks / free agent signings versus bad trades / draft picks / free agent signings. Hell, even coach signings. How many coaches will Paxson and Forman get? People around the NBA had the Bulls as a top 5 NBA team. Where are all these terrible personnel moves that you speak of? I listed them in a previous thread. Use the forum function to search: John Salmons / Brad Miller / Drew Gooden / Larry Hughes / Ben Wallace / Jamal Crawford / Dikembo Mutombo / JR Smith / Carlos Boozer / Tyrus Thomas / Lamarcus Aldridge Paxson once acquired Dikembe Mutombo? I must have slipped that one. You are grasping on some of those. The Major moves were Wallace/bad. Thomas/bad. Aldridge/bad. Boozer/good. Boozer was nor as bad as Thibs made him out to be. Boozer was really good that first year and wasn't that bad his last yr. Overall it was a good pickup. Letting Crawford go was a good move. The Knicks overpaid for him and he is a career backup. Jamal Crawford has never been past the second round of the playoffs. Talk about a classic case of revisionism. The other guys are really not worth mentioning. Good moves Gasol Rose Butler Noah Gordon Deng Gibson Hinrich Robinson Bellineli Boozer Mirotic Dunleavy Augustine

Author:	long time guy [ Tue Jun 02, 2015 7:34 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Press Conference
I fault Paxson for three minor moves that weren't made in 2010. I think if you look back they may have helped the Bulls that yr. They all involved local players. The money was about the same but for whatever reason he didn't go that route. He had a chance to sign Tony Allen, Shaun Livingston, and Shannon Brown. He signed Korver, Brewer, and C.J. Watson. The money was about the same but I believed those three would have helped more than the three they signed. They may not have been able to beat Miami but I think these three would have made a huge difference. They were not stars but often times it's the supporting cast that helps to turn a series around.

Author:	IMU [ Tue Jun 02, 2015 8:18 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Press Conference
long time guy wrote: Paxson once acquired Dikembe Mutombo? I must have slipped that one. You are grasping on some of those. The Major moves were Wallace/bad. Thomas/bad. Aldridge/bad. Boozer/good. Boozer was nor as bad as Thibs made him out to be. Boozer was really good that first year and wasn't that bad his last yr. Overall it was a good pickup. Letting Crawford go was a good move. The Knicks overpaid for him and he is a career backup. Jamal Crawford has never been past the second round of the playoffs. Talk about a classic case of revisionism. The other guys are really not worth mentioning. Good moves Gasol Rose Butler Noah Gordon Deng Gibson Hinrich Robinson Bellineli Boozer Mirotic Dunleavy Augustine Yes. In the Jamal Crawford trade you mentioned. Quote: On August 5th, 2004, the Chicago Bulls signed-and-traded guard Jamal Crawford and traded forward Jerome Williams to the New York Knicks for forward Othella Harrington, centers Dikembe Mutombo and Cezary Trybanski and guard Frank Williams. 7 years $56M was not overpaying for Jamal Crawford. Think about how much an excellent scoring two guard could have helped the Bulls over the years. The Bulls got jackshit back. When Tyson Chandler was still alive, the Bulls traded him to the Hornets for PJ Brown and JR Smith. JR Smith never suited up for the Bulls. They had to flip him for second rounders (that became JamesOn Curry and Aaron Gray) Robinson, Augustin, Watson...those guys were Thibs. Pay attention to their careers elsewhere. Not so great, eh? Gibson's contract is icky, and he will likely need to be moved to accommodate Hoiberg's offense. Gasol will maybe need to come off the bench. Ben Gordon? Really? You hate ETwaun Moore but Ben Gordon is the goods? You're confusing.

Author:	Curious Hair [ Tue Jun 02, 2015 8:22 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Press Conference
Aaron Gray! There's a name I forgot all about. I wonder what became of the White Panther.

Author:	Colonel Angus [ Tue Jun 02, 2015 8:47 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Press Conference
Thibs had to go, but this hiring is horrible.

Author:	long time guy [ Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:14 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Press Conference
IMU wrote: long time guy wrote: Paxson once acquired Dikembe Mutombo? I must have slipped that one. You are grasping on some of those. The Major moves were Wallace/bad. Thomas/bad. Aldridge/bad. Boozer/good. Boozer was nor as bad as Thibs made him out to be. Boozer was really good that first year and wasn't that bad his last yr. Overall it was a good pickup. Letting Crawford go was a good move. The Knicks overpaid for him and he is a career backup. Jamal Crawford has never been past the second round of the playoffs. Talk about a classic case of revisionism. The other guys are really not worth mentioning. Good moves Gasol Rose Butler Noah Gordon Deng Gibson Hinrich Robinson Bellineli Boozer Mirotic Dunleavy Augustine Yes. In the Jamal Crawford trade you mentioned. Quote: On August 5th, 2004, the Chicago Bulls signed-and-traded guard Jamal Crawford and traded forward Jerome Williams to the New York Knicks for forward Othella Harrington, centers Dikembe Mutombo and Cezary Trybanski and guard Frank Williams. 7 years $56M was not overpaying for Jamal Crawford. Think about how much an excellent scoring two guard could have helped the Bulls over the years. The Bulls got jackshit back. When Tyson Chandler was still alive, the Bulls traded him to the Hornets for PJ Brown and JR Smith. JR Smith never suited up for the Bulls. They had to flip him for second rounders (that became JamesOn Curry and Aaron Gray) Robinson, Augustin, Watson...those guys were Thibs. Pay attention to their careers elsewhere. Not so great, eh? Gibson's contract is icky, and he will likely need to be moved to accommodate Hoiberg's offense. Gasol will maybe need to come off the bench. Ben Gordon? Really? You hate ETwaun Moore but Ben Gordon is the goods? You're confusing. Ben Gordon was a 20 point scorer and 6th man award winner and no one steps up when you state that Etwaun Moore is better. Not surprising. There is absolutely no comparison between their careers. I don't recall you talking about Taj being anything icky as I chose to fight those battles last year and this. Awfully interesting! Tyson Chandler was considered a bust at the time the Bulls did their sign and trade. You now wish the Bulls would have kept JR Smith. He has had a nice run but let's not get carried away. Jamal Crawford is a career loser. He shot around 40% during the entire time he was with the Bulls. Apparently quite a few people missed on him because he has been on about 6 or 7 teams. In fact to show just how ignorant you are about basketball; Ben Gordon was a far better player while with the Bulls than Jamal Crawford. It was not even close. He had much more impact.

Author:	veganfan21 [ Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:25 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Press Conference
Moving Chandler to sign Wallace is one of the dumbest personnel moves in Chicago sports history. Crawford took awhile to find himself but overall he's been more valuable than Gordon. Gordon really hasn't done anything since leaving Chicago.

Author:	long time guy [ Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:58 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Press Conference
veganfan21 wrote: Moving Chandler to sign Wallace is one of the dumbest personnel moves in Chicago sports history. Crawford took awhile to find himself but overall he's been more valuable than Gordon. Gordon really hasn't done anything since leaving Chicago. As a Bull he was a better player than Crawford as a Bull. Not even close. Gordon was a 20 point a game scorer and he shot a higher percentage. He also won 6th man of the year. The Bulls were a better team from the moment he came into the league and he had a lot to do with it. Crawford has been better over the past 5 yrs but he bounced around the league a little. I would take Gordon's career with the Bulls over Crawford's any day. I agree with you about Wallace. Hated that move but Tyson Chandler was considered a bust when the Bulls traded him. It wasn't really considered a lost when he was moved out of town

Author:	Nas [ Tue Jun 02, 2015 10:57 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Press Conference
Ron Mercer and Jalen Rose averaged 20 ppg with the Bulls.

Author:	IMU [ Tue Jun 02, 2015 11:03 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Press Conference
long time guy wrote: Ben Gordon was a 20 point scorer and 6th man award winner and no one steps up when you state that Etwaun Moore is better. Jamal Crawford is a career loser. He shot around 40% during the entire time he was with the Bulls. Ben Gordon was a far better player while with the Bulls than Jamal Crawford. It was not even close. He had much more impact. 1) Ben Gordon didn't shoot a much higher percentage. 2) He scored 20 PPG once. 3) Jamal Crawford is also a sixth man winner. 4) I'm not comparing Ben Gordon's first 4 years as a Bull vs Jamal Crawford's first 4 years as a Bull. I'm comparing their careers. Jamal Crawford has had a full career. Ben Gordon couldn't stay in the league. 5) The worst player in the league can score 20 PPG if given enough shot attempts. Early 2000's to mid 2000's Bulls teams did not have a lot of scoring options.

Author:	long time guy [ Wed Jun 03, 2015 2:25 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Press Conference
IMU wrote: long time guy wrote: Ben Gordon was a 20 point scorer and 6th man award winner and no one steps up when you state that Etwaun Moore is better. Jamal Crawford is a career loser. He shot around 40% during the entire time he was with the Bulls. Ben Gordon was a far better player while with the Bulls than Jamal Crawford. It was not even close. He had much more impact. 1) Ben Gordon didn't shoot a much higher percentage. 2) He scored 20 PPG once. 3) Jamal Crawford is also a sixth man winner. 4) I'm not comparing Ben Gordon's first 4 years as a Bull vs Jamal Crawford's first 4 years as a Bull. I'm comparing their careers. Jamal Crawford has had a full career. Ben Gordon couldn't stay in the league. 5) The worst player in the league can score 20 PPG if given enough shot attempts. Early 2000's to mid 2000's Bulls teams did not have a lot of scoring options. 1. Never said much higher only said higher percentage. (TRUE) 2. Ben Gordon scored 20 a game twice not once (True) 3. The Bulls had a 24 game win increase in his rookie season. Ben Gordon avg. 16 a game as a rookie. He thus played a pivotal role. 4. Bulls made the playoffs in 4 of the 5 seasons Gordon was with Bulls. The Bulls never came close to making the playoffs while Crawford was on the team. (True). John Paxson was really wrong for allowing a player who was synonymous with the Bulls losing culture to leave. Interesting also was that Nas in his attempt to support your statement chose two guys also synonymous with the Bulls losing culture of Crawford's era. (True) Ben Gordon was not one of them. (True) Ben Gordon couldn't stay in the league, yet he is still in the league (true). It's really kind of irrelevant that Jamal Crawford has had a better post Bull career than Ben Gordon. Your argument is that Paxson made a huge mistake by allowing him to leave The Bulls stunk during the time he was on the team and he was responsible for much of the stink. He scored a lot of meaningless points on teams that were laughingstocks around the league. The Bulls win total doubled in Ben Gordon's first year on the team which was ironically Crawford's first year off of it. The primary reason that you are not going to argue respective Bulls careers is due to you conducting a Google search and realizing there really isn't a comparison. Crawford's highest point total with the "Bull" was exceeded at least 3 times by Gordon.