I can't remember which show it was, but one of the hosts (Danny Mac or Rosner???) said they weren't impressed with his moves. The team that won the Cup was mostly assembled by Dale Tallon. What has Bowman done other than dump players from that championship team? My feeling is that they won't win another Cup any time soon.

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To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

And he has had to dump those players because...

Let me explain the NHL salary cap, and I'd better cc it to Tallon while I'm at it. The cap is hard, not soft like the NBA. And unlike the NFL, you have to live with bad paper; you can't take them out back and have them shot like the Bears can. You cannot exceed the ceiling nor fall beneath the floor under any circumstances or you will not be allowed to field your team. You cannot restructure existing contracts, which are guaranteed. Basically, there is more that you can't do than you can.

So when you throw around money with no concern for the future, paying an unproven, positionless Dustin Byfuglien like a veteran second-liner, overpaying Bolland, overpaying Huet, overpaying Campbell, accidentally non-tendering your RFAs, and everything else that Tallon did so carelessly, you're going to find yourself in trouble, the trouble that you cannot get out of with any ease.

With the draconian standards of the NHL salary cap, you need to handle the financial aspect of team-building, and Tallon could not. We're in this mess because of something he did.

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This should be a fun feat of stregnth to get Mini Ditka to follow logic

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There are some bad parts in your post:

1. The Hawks were able to take a bad contract out back and shoot it: Huet. It's just using a different style of shooting from the NFL.
2. Byfuglien made the All-Star game this year as a defenseman. So he obviously has a position - and please list all of he players in that position that made the AS game from the Hawks......
3. I'm a huge Campbell fan, but his contract was indeed bloated. But then why hang on to him last year? Bowman kept him, and he single handedly put them up against the cap.
4. I'm not positive, but aren't all of the (non-core) accidental "non-tenders" RFA's gone? My point being they have no connection to the cap mess from Tallon.
5. The choice of Hjallmersson over Niemi doesn't look real strong at this point (I know more played into that, but that's essentially what it was).

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Stan Bowman as GM means Scotty Bowman's around. Scotty Bowman has had a team involved in ~40% of the Stanley Cup Finals over the last 4 decades or so.

1. It's off the cap, but still on the payroll: they've been on the hook for all but the loan fee. It's a different style of shooting insofar as a pistol is different from a slingshot. That they're still paying Huet about $5,000,000 is probably why the Hawks are letting all that cap space go unused.

2. Byfuglien got a three-year, $9,000,000 contract on the heels of his 2007-2008 season in which he was neither fish nor fowl, bouncing from wing to defenseman with a history of not being in shape, and that $3MM cap hit for 2010-11 was definitely his ticket to Atlanta. He wasn't and isn't a bad player, but at that point in time, he was very much a project player. A project is not someone a savvy general manager drops 9 over 3 on.

3. Campbell had to stay because the in-house alternatives were so unprepared that it would've made this year's splattery goatfuck look tidy by comparison.

4. Most of the non-tenders were fungible (Johnson, Fraser, Bickell) or bad (Cam Barker), but having to give Kris Versteeg that much money was categorically irresponsible, and that's why he's in Miami now. For all the Josh Mora-loving, Cubs-hating conspiracy theorists: why would Wirtz and McDonough sabotage their operation by losing their own paperwork so as to voluntarily give a player an undue 300+% raise such that he would have to be traded fathoms below market value for projects and prospects, just to promote an assistant GM? Everyone knew Tallon was a dead duck by the time Pulford and Savard were launched. I called it on another board in January (though my prediction was he would host intermissions)! They wouldn't have needed to hamstring themselves for years just to do what everyone knew they would do anyway. And they didn't.

5. The choice of Hjalmarsson was predicated on retaining a stalwart defense and a strong possession game to mitigate merely adequate goaltending. This, of course, is the architecture behind four championships in eleven years. Keeping Hjalmarsson, in and of itself, was the right thing to do, but then they did all the wrong things: they stopped dominating possession, they stopped blocking shots, and have employed goalies who can't stop a nosebleed. As such, Hjalmarsson has been overextended (just like Keith over on the other side of the PMD-S@H dynamic) and prone to stretches of ineffectiveness. Shame on the Blackhawks for losing that commitment to shot-blocking specialists on the third pairing, but then again, Stan wasn't the one who backed up the Brinks for Brent Sopel, now was he.

In conclusion, los Bowmans are doing the best they can to clean up the mess of a guy who just wasn't ready for a spreadsheet league.

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1. You don't actually believe what you're saying about current cap space being unused due to Huet, right? I mean, no way you think this?

2. My point stands on #2. Our D-men, even the "core", are not performing up their contracts in most cases. Bowman signed most of those - and that's the basis for this thread.

3. So shitty defensemen play is ok going into this year but not last? Weak argument at best. This team (this pp especially) is desperate for Brian Campbell's skill set right now, BTW.

4. The RFA issue was a giant gaffe by Tallon, no doubt. That doesn't do anything to solidify the case for Bowman though. They are completely unrelated issues.

5. Again - pointing out mistakes Tallon made in the past that haven't had any affect on this team in 2+ years (Mr. Jen-Jen) does nothing to solidify the case for Bowman.

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Didn't they want to get rid of Campbell but couldn't?

Good discussion. Campbell was way overpaid, but it was obvious that the pp sucked whenever he was out of the lineup. They can't get the puck into the zone effectively.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

Fucking hell CH, splattery goatfuck ?? thats awesome.

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Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.

Wasnt Campbell on the second pp unit anyway? thought it was Seabrook, Keith on the first team/

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Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.

He was good at bringing it up the ice and getting it into the zone. On the first pp tonight you saw the Hawks struggle to get it into the offensive zone with speed from the forwards. That has happened most of this season.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

That was the best 5 minute sequence I have seen from the Hawks in a long time. They earned that goal. My boy Jimmy Toews Hayes!

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Hawaii (fuck) You

Why is Frolik still on this team?

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CSFMB 2014 Nascar Pick 'em Champion

We don’t have a trillion-dollar debt because we haven’t taxed enough; we have a trillion-dollar debt because we spend too much. — Ronald Reagan

word on the street is that Wirtz has forbidden Bowman from picking up anymore big contracts. If that's true and you don't believe its related to him having to shell $5 mil out of his own pocket for Huet then you are being quite naive.

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No. What street did you get this word on? They have lots of big contracts, got rid of 2 (Huet, Campbell). They were jammed up against the cap so bad that they literally had to rotate their minimum salary guys from Rockford and back in order to stay under it.
If you think Huet has more to do with the reluctance for additional contracts than the combination of Campbell, Hossa, Kane, Kieth, Seabrook, Toews, and Bolland, you are the one that is naive.

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Great game by the Hawks tonight. Nice to see them play good defense again.
Detroit sucks.

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CSFMB 2014 Nascar Pick 'em Champion

We don’t have a trillion-dollar debt because we haven’t taxed enough; we have a trillion-dollar debt because we spend too much. — Ronald Reagan

They didn't get rid of Huet's contract, they merely got rid of its cap implications. Wirtz is still paying Huet this year to the tune of $5 mil. That doesn't count against the cap, its out of his own pocket. SO if he told Bowman to not acqure any more big contracts while at the same time he is paying $5 mil to Huet I would say its a not a big leap of logic to realize that the $5 mil hole in Rocky's back pocket has a lot to do with his reluctance to add someone else making $5 mil.

Simply put, if he wasn't paying that extra 5 mil to Huet there's no reason for him to tell Bowman to avoid big contracts.


You mention Campbell, but he's on Florida now and not getting paid by the Hawks so not really sure what point you are trying to make bringing him up. I could be wrong, but it seems like you don't understand the point myself and Curious were trying to make regarding Huet.

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Do you have any idea what this thread is about, shakes?

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stuff?

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Ok good. Just wanted to make sure we were on the same page.

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Can you think of any other team in Chicago besides the Blackhawks that would fire both the general manager and the head coach after a year in which the team went to the conference finals in their respective sport? As far as Bowman goes, I think sometimes people get jobs because their father is good at his job.

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To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

Amen sister...

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

I still have a hard time assessing Stan. But one thing about the Hawks, unlike many other franchises, it that is seems like decisions are made with organizational consensus. Meaning, I don't think Stan pulls the trigger without a lot of other input. The Cubs will probably be run like that now with the 3 headed GM monster.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

Savard's team finished 10th in his last full season (he coached like two games in 08-09). They went to the conference final with Quenneville.

And what's your point? I can't think of many other teams anywhere that would hang on to a shitty general manager as long as the Cubs held on to Hendry. So? The guys Rocky fired were not the best candidates for their jobs.

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I stand corrected on the Savard comment.

But Bowman being GM and the team winning the championship with Tallon's players is basically the same as Bruce Weber going to the NCAA Championship game with Bill Self's players.

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To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

Only if Deron Williams (or someone else significant on the team) wasn't one of Self's players. Then the comparison would work.

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Huet was a bad decision based on a half season long hot-streak, but Talon was hampered by two things: a crappy/old/hurt goaltender in Khabi; and a shitty hockey market where the only thing that you could offer was a big check. He had to do something and he had to pay a lot for it. So I don't blame him for going out on a limb and trying something, just wished it didn't hurt so much.

Same thing with Campbell. The only difference (mind you this is pure speculation) is that I don't think Talon properly evaluated Keith. If he knew what Keith was going to be, I don't think he goes after Campbell. Strike One.

Skille, strike 2. Granted it's not as damning as Barker, but in the Barker draft at least 20 GM's swung and missed in the first round, whereas in 2005, there were some gems to be had.

I'm waiting for a big move from Bowman, it'll happen, and when it does then let's start the evaluation game. Signing's are great so far, fair prices for the core 3, a steal on the Hossa deal, a tad too much for Seabrook, but he would have been seen a lot more in the free market.

Trade wise: Bad Versteeg trade, Bad Ladd trade, questionable Byfuglien trade...

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team Mully & Hanley
team Meatpants

Acquisitions of Leddy, Stalberg, and Morin were good.

His drafting has me most impressed.

Saad, Johns, Olsen, McNeil, Kruger, Rensfeldt and Shaw are all intriguing prospects.

Saad has been tearing it up in Saginaw.

I'm a fan of Bowman so far.

Bowman has drafted very well. Granted, he's had a surplus of picks to work with due to the deconstruction of the 2010 team, but those haven't exactly been sky-high picks. I think his highest was McNeill at 17. Tallon whiffed hard on two top ten picks in Barker and Skille (if we're attributing 2004 to Tallon; Pulford was nominally GM but I'm pretty sure Tallon was running that draft).

One area where I'm worried about Bowman is the trade market. I'm not a trade junkie like some people are, but even after a trade deadline that tended to be stagnant for pretty much everyone, there have been some rumblings that other GMs around the league don't exactly want to work with Bowman and the Blackhawks because, you guessed it, John McDonough did wrong by the sclerotic, tobacco-stained Longtime Hockey Guy Establishment by firing a fraternity member for incompetence. The biggest example in this favor is the shit Doug Wilson pulled with Hjalmarsson and Niemi. Every summer, countless restricted free agents go untouched by offer sheets because general managers don't find it very sporting to undermine one another like that. Of course, the Sharks always need secondary talent, but that move was as much personal as it was strategic, I'm nearly certain.

I know it's always like this to one extent or another, but it's kind of worrisome that the bulk of Bowman's trading has been with Tallon, Cheveldayoff, or Dudley. Like the only people who want to work with the guy are people from Chicago, while everyone else sees him as some sort of silver-spooned prick. Of course it's funny that Tallon himself doesn't seem to mind working with his successor, but then again consider that he's foisted Michael Frolik and Rostislav Olesz upon us. I dunno, I just have these mental pictures of crusty old doofuses like Sather and Holmgren grumbling about that baseball guy hiriing Scotty's punkass kid.

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