long time reader, first time poster, but here goes nothing...and a lot of it

as an Illini alum (class of 89) I have been disappointed in the bball recruiting setbacks over the last few years, especially when I watch a KU game and see some seriously talented individuals (Wright, Collins) who would look awfully good in orange right now

all that being said...watching the game tonight against Indiana I was again impressed with the effort of some of the illini players....particularly Pruitt, Carter and Frazier...and it's just too bad that all the other crap that has surrounded this program lately is overshadowing the fact that these three guys generally bring it every game

at the same time, as a Peoria native I am especially disappointed in Smith's stupidity and Randle's apparent inability to learn how to play defense without fouling...a problem which preceded his injury woes and continues unabated...not to mention his utter lack of form shooting a jump shot....which is even more frustrating to me because I think if he could just wise up and harness his athleticism he could actually find a place at the next level along the lines of a Stacy Augmon type player

all that being said....I was proud of the effort they showed tonight...and I credit Weber for some of that....but at the same time it was painfully obvious that they are overachieving to get into the NCAA's this year, and that doesn't sit well considering two years ago they were rolling as a number one seed....

bottom line, watching tonight's game i was thinking SIU-North...at best.

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Realizing that we're only immortal for a limited time

Considering Weber made that big run with Self's players, you're not far from the truth.

At best!

You can see that the Illini do not have a single player on that team right now who can control a game. That is unacceptable from a team that was in the championship just two years ago.

I don't think there are any recruits that fit the game controlling description either. That means that the Illini will be looking at the middle of the pack for at least 2 more years.

Are people's expectations for Illinois too high? It seems like people are shocked or angry that Illinois is having the season they are having.

While it appears that Weber as a recruiter leaves a lot to be desired, could it also be that these highly sought after recruits are looking at schools with a higher basketball pedigree than Illinois?

Some of the players Weber tried to recruit, Gordon (Indiana) Scheyer (Duke) and the kid form H-F (Kansas) all went to schools with more of a successful basketball tradition than Illinois. Was it the coach or the perception of the future success of the basketball program that shaped these recruits decisions?

Of course you need a better recruiter than Weber appears to be to offset this disadvantage, but I remember after the '89 Final Four run that illinois suffered some disappointing seasons. And I don't think you can blame Weber for that.

Were the players from the 2005 season highly sought after recruits? I honestly don't know but I don't recall the hype surrounding that class compared to other schools.

It seems to me that Illinois is not the destination for high school players
or coaches that some people in this state percieve them to be. Massachusets and Utah also went to Final Fours in the past decade, doesn't mean that should be successful for the next decade.

Sorry to ramble, but maybe Illinois is what they have been just proven to be over the past 50 years, a solid program that will occassionally battle for an Elite Eight or Final four birth. They are not going to battle for NCAA or even Big Ten championships every year. They are going to suffer seasons like this where they will be lucky to advance to the Sweet Sixteen.
Someone on the Score yesterday compared them to Purdue. In terms of the expecations of there programs, I think it is a fair comparison.

So are you saying that Illinois' basketball program is constitutively incapable of attracting top recruits? If so, that's simply untrue. Frank Williams, Brian Cook, Rich McBride, Dee Brown and many other former Illini players were highly touted prospects who chose Illinois over other elite programs. Weber isn't getting top recruits now because he's thus far shown himself to be a poor recruiter.

And it's not just the top programs that are humbling him in the recruiting wars, either. He's lost major battles to DePaul, Memphis and Tennessee (among others), none of which can be considered basketball royalty.

Illini apologists have lately argued that Weber doesn't need top recruits to be successful since he's such a great tactician and teacher of the game. The coming days will present him with an opportunity to prove his worth. Virginia Tech is a talented but beatable team as is Illinois' likely NCAA second-round opponent, SIU. If Weber is the coach his supporters say he is, the Illini will find themselves in the Sweet 16 next week.

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i think the point is, if illinois wants to develop a tradition and establish itself within the big ten the first step is winning recruiting battles and specifically the chicagoland area which Bruce has yet to show hes capable of. What especially hurts him is his predecessor was bringing in the kids from chi. sorry bruce talent wins out and without a quality recruiting class your tenaciouos defense and motion offense doesnt mean squat.

I'm sorry, but I'd just like to say this.

I'd say amongst IND, MSU, PUR, and ILL, you could throw them in a bag and pick one in terms of their results this year - all pretty even.

I don't think anyone would take ILL's talent over any of the other 3. I don't want to start up again all the reasons why that is, but I think we can all agree injuries and suspension have played a large part. And the Illini's on-court performance still gotten them to the Final Four of the Big 10 tourney and in the NCAAs. That's not too bad.

But, as TM said, he will be judged based on what happens this weekend.

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My Maserati does 186.

Sorry, messed up on the quote button.

You are probably right, my knowledge of the recruiting wars is limited. However if Rich McBride was a highly touted prospect, then my next question is what happened?

TM, I have read some of your earlier posts regarding Bruce Weber and pretty much agree with you. Weber does need to be a better recruiter.

What I am trying to say is that the reason why Weber needs to do a better job is that Illinois, just the basketball program itself, may not be the draw some people think it is. I think people assumed that after the run they had in 2005, recruits would be flocking to Illinois. But it hasn't happened. Some of it is Weber and some of it (I believe) is that Illinois just doesn't hold the same cache for recruits.

And is Illinois a much more attractive destination than Memphis or Tennessee? If DePaul could ever get a on campus arena, I think Depaul, since it's move to the Big East, could become a significant force in the state and the region.

I just wonder if the expectations for Illinois are sometimes higher than what should be expected.

I'm not so sure Chicago is the key to basketball success in Illinois. Peoria seems to be as much of a recruiting gold mine in Illini history as chicago.

I also disagree with TM assessment of this weekend. VT may be beatable (although unlikely). SIU however, gives a much more consistent performance and is unlikely to be upset in this tournament. Should the Illini pull off an upset against VT, they will be in danger of scoring in the low 40's against the SIU defense.

They're in danger of doing that against everybody GD.

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My Maserati does 186.

Dolphin, I'm not sure you understood my point.

Illini apologists have been arguing that Weber's poor recruiting won't haunt the program because he'll be able to "coach up" his players to the point that they'll be consistently successful in the Big 10 and NCAA tournament. While I believe this analysis overestimates Weber's coaching ability, I concede that it may be accurate. This weekend's games should go a long way towards testing their hypothesis. The current undermanned, short-on-talent Illini squad is just the kind of team Weber is likely to have in future seasons. So if they win a couple of games in this year's tournament, there'll be reason for Weber's supporters to remain optimistic. If not, the future should assume an even bleaker countenance for Illini basketball fans.

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