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 Post subject: Going Private
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:12 am 
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Musk apparently has the funding to buy back shares and make Tesla private again. Would be unprecedented for a company with that kind of market cap right?


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 Post subject: Re: Going Private
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:18 am 
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America wrote:
Musk apparently has the funding to buy back shares and make Tesla private again. Would be unprecedented for a company with that kind of market cap right?


Yup, no clue where he would get the financing. Besides, the company is sucking up capital, which is not exactly an ideal go private transaction. Dell going private was a big one. TXU was another large one that ended up going B/K. Tesla is larger than both of those.

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 Post subject: Re: Going Private
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:20 am 
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I hope for his sake he has funding. If not, he likely committed securities fraud with that tweet.

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 Post subject: Re: Going Private
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:27 am 
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Jaw Breaker wrote:
I hope for his sake he has funding. If not, he likely committed securities fraud with that tweet.


Since that is my area of expertise, the major flaw in his Tweet/Blog is violation of Reg FD, which I do not believe he violated (not exactly selective disclosure). Now, if he does not go forward with a transaction, he will be accused of what we call a 10b-5 violations, making false and misleading statements. But there are good defenses to that, especially if he didn't profit by the stock movement. That would have to prove intent to deceive.

But there will be private lawsuits regardless.....

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 Post subject: Re: Going Private
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:33 am 
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denisdman wrote:
America wrote:
Musk apparently has the funding to buy back shares and make Tesla private again. Would be unprecedented for a company with that kind of market cap right?


Yup, no clue where he would get the financing. Besides, the company is sucking up capital, which is not exactly an ideal go private transaction. Dell going private was a big one. TXU was another large one that ended up going B/K. Tesla is larger than both of those.


Is he expecting an influx of government funding for various initiatives?

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 Post subject: Re: Going Private
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:45 am 
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GD, if anything, there is some concern that government subsidies for solar installations are ending in the upcoming years. I doubt there is any expectation that the government will help out Tesla.

Going private transactions are almost done on strong cash flow companies. In that way, leverage can be used to support the transaction. In Tesla's case, they are still operating at a cash flow loss. Capital intensive companies are not great candidates for going private.

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 Post subject: Re: Going Private
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:26 am 
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denisdman wrote:
Jaw Breaker wrote:
I hope for his sake he has funding. If not, he likely committed securities fraud with that tweet.


Since that is my area of expertise, the major flaw in his Tweet/Blog is violation of Reg FD, which I do not believe he violated (not exactly selective disclosure). Now, if he does not go forward with a transaction, he will be accused of what we call a 10b-5 violations, making false and misleading statements. But there are good defenses to that, especially if he didn't profit by the stock movement. That would have to prove intent to deceive.

But there will be private lawsuits regardless.....

What type of damages can those going short on Tesla recoup in a lawsuit? I'm curious to hear what the answer will be as that is what I see happening.

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 Post subject: Re: Going Private
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:33 am 
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The Securities Exchange Act of 1934 applies here. The damage will be based on the following:

You look at rise and fall plus the time period to assess damages. Say he causes the market cap to go up by $10B, which then falls back when no offer appears, then that is your gross damages. Normally you get pennies on the dollar in a settlement. The longer the time that the stock stays high also increases the economic damages. Someone with his personality and brashness will attract a lot plaintiff firm attention, and they will dig in on settlement talks. It is my guess at this point that the courts would throw the case out on motion to dismiss. But if the plaintiffs overcome that hurdle, a $100M settlement wouldn't shock me given the hype around the "offer".

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 Post subject: Re: Going Private
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:36 am 
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This dipshit might have put himself in prison? Awesome.

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 Post subject: Re: Going Private
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:41 am 
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Curious Hair wrote:
This dipshit might have put himself in prison? Awesome.


Nah, it was a dumb, naive move. I don't think there was any intent to deceive. It is mainly a civil matter. Keep in mind, even the SEC has only has civil authority. They have to refer stuff to Justice for criminal.

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 Post subject: Re: Going Private
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:27 pm 
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I think Musk did it purely to screw the short sellers.

SEC now looking into the tweet.

https://electrek.co/2018/08/08/tesla-ts ... et-report/


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 Post subject: Re: Going Private
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:04 am 
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how do you do that?

Say you invested 100K in his company.

If he goes private do you get all that back? and more? tax free?


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 Post subject: Re: Going Private
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 7:03 am 
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HawaiiYou wrote:
how do you do that?

Say you invested 100K in his company.

If he goes private do you get all that back? and more? tax free?


In your example, let’s say you paid $100k for 300 shares (333.33 per share). Musk buys you out for 420.00 per share (just as if you had sold in the market) and you would owe capital gains taxes on your profit of $26k.

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 Post subject: Re: Going Private
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 7:29 am 
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Dignified Rube wrote:
I think Musk did it purely to screw the short sellers.

SEC now looking into the tweet.

https://electrek.co/2018/08/08/tesla-ts ... et-report/


My feeling is that Twitter is a broad enough platform that his Tweet did not violate Reg FD. Where you get in trouble is when you selectively disclose material information to an analyst or group of investors ahead of the general market.

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