I say that golf is more strategic than running/throwing/jumping in a straight line or a slightly curved line. What say you CSFMB?

My Evidence: Amen corner at Augusta on Sunday. You have to make decisions factoring in your position in the tournament, the weather conditions, and your positioning on the course for each shot including possibly laying up, attempting to avoid certain bad spots to setup your next shot, or be more aggressive if you feel you need to take a chance to give yourself a chance.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Oh Brick

Golf is WAY more strategic

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

How does your shot keep someone else from making a better shot?

How is this different than running a 10k (25 laps) where deciding to push ahead of your normal pace early can effect the energy you have left at the end?

Or throwing the discus when it is 45 windy and raining? You don't think throwers try and change the angle of their throw if wind conditions are factoring in to the event?

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So the best examples of track and field strategy you have is "Run Faster" and "Throw It Lower"?

Not a good start for you.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Stay out of the water and rough is different how? Again how do you keep someone from beating you in golf? im waiting for that defensive strategy.

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I know you're probably just doing the "Brick Thing" here but if you are truly asking those questions because you lack an understanding of what Conns is trying to say, well, you probably shouldn't have started this thread in he first place. It isn't all that hard to understand, it's pretty basic.

But, if you're just doing the "Brick Thing" then carry on.

conns, sometimes you can actually have a better shot from the rough than the fairway.

There is some strategery in track & field, no doubt. There is more in golf. Just like there is more in football than in golf.

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I don't think it's fair to simply say "track and field". There is far less strategy in a sprint than there is in a distance race.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

So do you think that track and field has the same amount of strategy as golf?

I just don't see it. There are logical decisions that must be made on every single shot, and in many cases there are many options and the best one must be chosen. Most track and field is simply use your physical ability to do an action. Tiger Woods doesn't always hit the ball as far as he can but a runner will always just try and run as fast as he can, a jumper will jump as high as he can, and a thrower will throw as far as he can.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

At certain distances this obviously is not true.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Yes, JORR, it is very, very obvious. Or at least it should be as it isn't all that hard to figure out. But I have a sinking feeling that Brick has concocted a "Brick Being Brick" argument and it is meant in jest because he is bored. That or he forgot to login to his Mini-Ditka account.



Well that's great. Anyways, as for the 2nd bolded part, I wasn't arguing as a whole, I was simply drawing attention to what conns791 was specifically saying. In those 2 examples he used he had a good point and is correct in what he is saying about those 2 events.

That really stretches the definition of strategy. For the sprint races, they will sprint. For the non-sprint races they won't sprint at the start because it's not a sprint.

They still want to go as fast as they can for the phases of the race.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

As a track athlete up through college, I would admit that track isn't as "strategic" as golf.

But then again, I don't consider golf to be a sport, nor do I consider golfers to really be athletes(with limited exceptions), so there's that...

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

I wasn't saying he was wrong. I'm saying that if those are the best two arguments you can come up with it's not very good.

conns is arguing that track and field is as strategic as golf. I'm not arguing that there is absolutely no strategy in track and field.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

That is again wrong. Distance runners have specific paces they try to keep that can change due to weather conditions or people they are racing against.

It is like saying a golfer takes the same approach on a par 3 125 yards and a par 5 500 yard dog leg right hole.

In neither sport is their much strategy when it comes to defeating your opponent. You are competing against yourself.

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That's just not so, Rick. There are various types of runners in a distance race. Some of them run up front. Those runners will attempt to control the pace. That often means to run as slowly as possible while keeping the lead. You see this same concept at work in horse races. That's why a horse can win at a mile in 1:49 one week and lose in 1:52 the next. The lead dictates the pace. If we go slow enough and I have the lead, it doesn't matter how much better you are than I am. You can't run the last 100 yards fast enough to catch me.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Everyone needs to back slowly and carefully out of this thread. Don't make eye contact.

I think Brick forgot to login to his IMU account before starting this thread.

I'm not going to argue about the minor strategy in one specific type of track and field. It still doesn't compare to the strategy of looking at where your ball is currently positioned and then deciding the best course of action vs. the other options. There are sometimes four or five different options for a golf shot including different use of clubs and different placement.
Isn't that exactly what you are saying? That's a great example of how golf is more strategic.
I never said the strategy of golf came from defense.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Consider the use (@ elite races) of "rabbits" for races longer than 1500m(and even there on occasion). A rabbit will be paid to run say a 1:50 half mile or a specific time at a longer distance, taking the question of pace out of the equation. As a result, there is less of a need for strategic moves than most would admit.

In the 800m, you really only have two decisions, pace at the start & when to begin your kick. In the 400, you only have one, if that. Below that distance, none whatsoever.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

The people aren't intentionally limiting speed. They just aren't overextending themselves because it's not how they run. Now, maybe we can call that a basic strategy, but that's kind of like saying that a basketball player is using strategy by not going all Tyler Hansborough from the start of the game and being exhausted by the end.

Let me put it another way. If there was a man alive who could sprint without getting tired for an entire distance race would he ever choose not to? If there was ever a horse that could sprint for an entire race without getting tired would he ever choose not to? It's just how someone runs. They can't sprint the whole time so they don't.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

First, let me say, I'm not really arguing the point with you. I would agree that there is more startegy in a round of golf.

But you're wrong in saying that leaders aren't intentionally limiting speed. Or they would if they could anyway. In the larger marathons, event organizers usually pay "rabbits" because they would like to get a world record in their race. These rabbits aren't even legitimate competitors as their only purpose is to push the pace of the race and they most likely have no intention of finishing the course. This isn't as likely to occur in an Olympic distance race. The leader is usually going to try to slow the pace as it provides him a great advantage. If he goes too slow, however, someone is going to make a move at him. It's a rare distance runner who attempts to bottom out a field at an elite level.

As for the hypothetical in your last paragraph, the point is really moot since such creatures do not exist.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Having run track for both short distance and long distance as well as relays, there is no strategy to it. Coach would always tell people to not go gangbusters out of the gate for distance, but everyone did it anyways because if you didnt you would fall behind the other guy. And I agree with RR, golf is not a sport and golfers are not athletes.

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Did you ever run cross country? I don't mean that as a "where did you play your ball" comment, it just doesn't seem like you did. It's not a stretch at all to say there's strategy. Knowing when to speed up and when not to is an important skill to master, and not as easy as it sounds. Golf obviously has more strategy because more decisions are being consciously made, but to say it's a stretch to say there's strategy in long distance running is just not true.

Edit: Nevermind, you conceded this point.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Cross country and track and field are not really one in the same.

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And that's why York won the X-Country championship every year instead of Holy Cross.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

You had a bad coach.

Are you saying that these runners could run faster early on and finish the race quicker? That is what I disagree with. They know they only have so much energy so they don't go all out at the start or even the middle.

By this same line of thinking, I guess it's strategy to sprint as hard as you can in the shorter races. After all, if it's strategic to not run your fastest at a specific time because it will hurt your speed later then it is also strategic to run your fastest.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!