Fine to get to the heart of the matter: Obama is doing nothing but making the situation worse. His pronouncements and posturing is giving the Ukrainians false hope that the West will come and bail them out. I hate to say it but this is almost an exact replay of Poland 1939. West guarantees Polands security and then sits by while both the Germans and Soviets dismantle them.
Instead of false chest thumping try and get a coalition to try and fix it. Can we get a coalition together for this? Simply put,no. Why well let us look at the situation. West Europe is too dependent on Russian NG and oil. Turkey,no way in hell she gets involved in this. The 'Stains,no too unstable. Balkan states,even worse shape than the 'stains. What Putin is doing here is basically showing the world that he will do what he wants in his backyard.It is really disingenuous to shake our finger at Russia over this when we done far worse in Libya and Syria.

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When I am stuck and need to figure something out I always remember the Immortal words of Socrates when he said:"I just drank what?"

Spoken like Rick James.

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You are getting your information from gaming magazines, have no grasp on reality, don't understand the budget process, and are using a thread that's actually become a good discussion to blame the worlds problems on Obama. Please. Stop typing. Not a SINGLE PERSON in this thread has backed Obama.

He's really not backing the pres.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Less responding to Big Bad Bully Chas and more talk about stuff relating to topic and Hacksaw Jim Duggan. But let us never forget that Duggan turned on Lady Liberty and went Canadian. It was like 9/11 or that time Robin Williams defected.

Well, while no one has defended President Obama's (chosen) path thus far on Ukraine to date, I think/hope that everyone in this thread backs our President and hopes for a favorable outcome in Ukraine for both our President and our country--the two are not severable in this situation.

"Barack is our quarterback", to paraphrase Lovie Smith.

I'm not saying I don't want a favorable outcome. I'm just saying that there hasn't been any sort of Obama "defending" like dipshit is claiming.

I know but his response to anyone saying we should not be involved is "Pres is just doing his job" Do you disagree with anything in the last thing I posted? You can't there is no way we can do this alone and there is no one to help us gang up on Russia,the best thing to do is back channel talks ala JFK and Khrushchev. By coming out publicly with his big stick threats all he is going to do is make the Us look worse and put us in an even worse position down the road when oh I don't know he tries to expand even further into areas that are not historically Russian. Like I said this situation is a repeat from Poland 1939 wit ha little of Chez 1938 thrown in.

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When I am stuck and need to figure something out I always remember the Immortal words of Socrates when he said:"I just drank what?"

Is this the new advice from your life coach? When people use facts and the actual discussion to show you how off base your are just ignore them? That's a great life decision.

No,the hopes should be for a favorable outcome for the Ukrainian people. We should have zero interest in this. There is nothing to gain from this. I do hope the President realizes this and either cuts and runs and save what face we can or to try something that has a chance of working,not for us as we have nothing really in the game but to help the people who are stuck in the middle of this and as Don T said the side we seem to be backing are basically Nazis. This guy really knows who to support. Al Qaeda in Libya and Syria now these guys.

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When I am stuck and need to figure something out I always remember the Immortal words of Socrates when he said:"I just drank what?"

Oh, yeah, agreed. You and Nas injected much needed sobriety into this thread before it descended into yet another bash Barack fest; weirdly common on a site composed of Chicago folks when the President was/is our neighbor. Root, root, root for the home team...not so much, sometimes. But in this case? I think our future depends on it enough in the current context to cross traditional party lines. Cheering against your own President in this situation...wtf.

In Obama's defense he might just be in an unwinnable position. We can't take on Russia and China and I think they both are interested in a confrontation. He can't do nothing because as Nas pointed out we've made promises. Props to Obama for keeping previous promises.
My thing is not a shot at Obama. It's that Russia is dick slapping the shit out of us.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Hell yeah,and by publicly calling Putin out and doing nothing next time it will be even more blatant and more overt.
The ting to look at now is where next? That is the question. With the nation distracted where will the groundhog poke his head up next?

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When I am stuck and need to figure something out I always remember the Immortal words of Socrates when he said:"I just drank what?"

When I'm at it... what a bunch of dick less fucks Russia's parliament is.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

I am not cheering against the pres. I am a conservative republican in most ways,an old school republican. I am slightly isolationist.
I really do wish he would have improved our image in the world arena but he went way way to far in the opposite direction of Bush.
Putin picked a really good time for this,mid term elections right around the corner will basically immobilize us even if we did have the capability to do so.

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When I am stuck and need to figure something out I always remember the Immortal words of Socrates when he said:"I just drank what?"

Not dickless they are doing what they think is in the best interest of their nation and fellow countrymen.

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When I am stuck and need to figure something out I always remember the Immortal words of Socrates when he said:"I just drank what?"

Will somebody else take him to the woodshed? I'm getting bored with it. There's so much fail coming out of ChasDipShit's mouth tonight it's hard to keep up

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Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way

You have said that we shouldn't get involved, yet you blame the president for just talking. Just stop. Go play army men, or grab a coloring book and some crayons.

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Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way

viewtopic.php?f=149&t=77598&start=250

In this thread, you said that you are "very isolationist".



You are just trying to bash the president. Own it.

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Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way

Do you have anything substantive to add leash or just play the ad hominem game??

They would make fine Chicago Aldermen.

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

As opposed to the great insight you have added?

If you find pictures like the one you posted amusing, there's no hope for you. Your goal isn't to understand or analyze issues; it's to oversimplify and suck at the teat of right wing media. It's sad.

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I hope to hell we don't get involved, despite whatever promises old men with no actual skin in the game made 20 years ago. Sending our soldiers to die just so we don't look weak is piss fucking poor leadership.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I'm daring you to do something besides talk. Go sign up for the Army, if a war is what you want.


But we all know damn well that you are a pussy.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

The agreement was important, Ukraine gives up its nuclear weapons and we promised security. If we leave them high and dry and don't honor it they will develop the nukes as they will be forced to secure that deterrent. They have already said as much.

Either way, in my opinion Putin doesn't want war, not with Ukraine and not with the West. No guarantee he'd win the former and he'd certainly lose the later. A united front would at least show him he can't go on with games like these.

I also find it funny that we are talking about Putin when he isn't the actual elected leader of Russia.

As an addendum, if you fail to honor agreements and leave allies out in the cold I would imagine that war in the future to be a certainty.

It's not about looking weak it is about being able to lead. If we don't honor our promise and Ukrainians are slaughtered and the country is divided into separate countries we will have lost our influence and ability to lead.

Death of our citizens is the hardest part but they signed up knowing this was a possibility. I don't believe we would lose many lives. That being said when you make yourself the world police then you have to honor the pledges you make despite the sacrifice of lives.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Yeah, Ukraine about to go Yugoslavia Part II. Its going to be bloody. I dont remember anybody tagging in when Russia rolled over Georgia over there a few years ago. American will only take this stuff seriously when the Chinese or Russian welcome wagon shows up in the Seattle area, takes the airport, and says it is in their best interest.

Other than that, keep the bullets flying as far away from our shores as possible. I did have a bad dream one night where six nukes were used in the Central Asia region, maybe I was just reading a Tom Clancy book before bedtime...

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CSFMB: Home of the small minded

Russian UN ambass, dropped a whole bunch of buillshit yesterday. Clearly they are going to increase forces there and lock it down, their UN ambassador dropped blame on everyone else in the world and in his vision Russian forces are just helping out. he used the word WHY? over 50 times, 'WHy is everyone against us?' "Why are other countries fighting us?" "Why do they have to fight with our troops"

It with denial to the Nth degree. He even apologized to the Ukraine for the Security Council meeting which didnt let him speak for over an hour!

It was like listening to the Animal House speech in the Russian Verion, trying to digress from the issue

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"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." Banky
“Been that way since one monkey looked at the sun and told the other monkey ‘He said for you to give me your fuckin’ share.’”