28? Jeebus, here I was "proud" of my 22 all this time.

Seen below = K-Effective & Don Tiny riding to church on a Sunday:

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

I remember those guys from the Guinness Book of world records circa 1978.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

Me too.

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Elections have consequences.

Something for JORR is probably the best Joe Paterno movie ever made.

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You know me like that.

You don't come boppin' in the door so everyone can see your $12 gym shorts.

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I also like JORR's board presence (I've never met him in person, though we seem to have traveled in many of the same circles), but I agree that most of his thoughts are largely indefensible, bizarre and nonsensical. It's not surprising, then, that he--like another one of my board favorites, Dr. Kenneth Noisewater--is an Illini fan. I guess they both have dedicated their message board lives to championing lost causes.

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JORR,
Aren't you against the smoking ban in bars and restaurants and now in cars with kids?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I'm a big fan of JORR. He can tell a story like no other. I too,disagree with his stance on ERA vs. W/L.

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favrefan said:"Chris Coghlan isn't gonna pay your rent, Jimmy."

I hate JORR.

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he's a bit prickly, but i love him anyways

This one shouldn't get lost among the ruminations on my intelligence.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Not exactly. I think if a man wants to open an establishment that allows smoking, that should be his business. I won't be one of his customers. That's a free market issue if ever there was one.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I remember that one. It was like Brian's Song on training wheels.

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favrefan said:"Chris Coghlan isn't gonna pay your rent, Jimmy."

Isn't it incredibly rude to smoke next to someone though?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

not if it's weed

Not if the asshole you're next to is smoking too.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

What if he isn't?

A guy who is smoking next to you is much ruder than a guy wearing shorts next to you. Correct?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Sure. And I haven't been on a flight where smoking was allowed in a long time.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Now we are getting somewhere.

Can you explain why that is?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

i like where this is going

I think you can figure it out.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I know where you're going with this, but I have to disagree with the comparison. I don't believe JORR ever said he wanted a ban on casual clothing. He said he doesn't like it. The smoking ban is an actual ban, not just a personal preference. Apples and oranges.

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No, JORR said he doesn't want a ban on smoking and that he would instead choose to change his behavior to not deal with it.

So, what about buying a seat with extra legroom? What about wanting airlines to disable(ban) reclining? What about being willing to disable the reclining of the seat in front of you instead of simply choosing an airline or seat that better suits his own personal needs?

His point on smoking seems to be that people should adjust their own behavior instead of asking someone else to adjust theirs. That is pretty much the exact opposite. I understand he doesn't want casual clothing banned but I'm pretty sure he wants reclining seats banned and even with casual clothing he is asking others to adjust their behavior to fit his needs.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Right. I'm not looking for dress code enforcement on flights. I just wish people would have enough pride and respect for their fellow travelers to dress in an appropriate manner. I wouldn't mind though if there was a law against removing one's shoes.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

oh

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You really don't get the difference? There's a reason why air travel is so highly regulated. I don't want discussing bombs banned in my local tavern, but you damn sure better not have that conversation the next time you're reclining in your pajamas on a 727.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I don't know what JORR's stance is, and I won't argue on his behalf. I would only argue that if smoking were allowed, there would be restaurants that pop up that don't allow smoking, and people would have the choice not to go to restaurants that allow smoking.

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I think Rick is suggesting that it follows logically then that if there is such demand for non-reclining flights, they should be popping up. Obviously there is a demand. But the amount of flights are limited. There are different factors than there are with bars/restaurants.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

This post avoids the point that you are shifting responsibility to others(don't dress a certain way and don't recline) but in the other you are doing what you need to do in order to avoid it.

You are concentrating too much on the ban part of it. It's about his decision to avoid smoking in the hypothetical world where smoking is allowed in restaurants. I get that is what he would do. However, the same logic dictates that he should spend $39 for a seat with enough legroom so he doesn't have to worry about the guy in front of him reclining, or find an airline or seat that doesn't allow for reclining by the seat in front.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Correct. Flights are far from a free market. In fact, there's an even larger issue with the number of airlines available and the barriers to entry with flights. But that's the nature of the industry.

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