What majority view? You’re simultaneously projecting and straw-manning, which is tough to pull off.

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Can we at least all agree that fasting from sunrise to sunset is probably not required for a good afterlife?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I'm sorry you're fat

Well, you won’t be eating in the afterlife. It’s a trial run.

Are you following the argument or just interjecting for sport? We're discusing American/Western/Christian life being superior to life in a Muslim majority country, which is considered evil.

Feel free to address why you think your view is objectively right.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

All cultures aren't equal. Treating them as if they are is why the West is crumbling.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Kash, and Don

America is the greatest nation in the history of the world because she embraced ALL cultures. Your preferences are entirely subjective.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

False. America became the greatest nation in the world because it invited people from all over to embrace its culture.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Kash, and Don

It's a culture gumbo. It's the best. The only thing America requires is that you embrace America and help her maintain her supreme status. If you want to have various parades, fly flags from other countries, be an atheist, or even a Muslim, she's cool with it.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

I’d like to understand what you’re claiming is the majority view that I’m are arrogantly supporting.

I don’t know that there’s been much arguing here. I’ve seen some “both sides” commentary and a lot of insults, but the closest thing I’ve seen to a defense of Islamic governance is saying that Christians have it good in Egypt.

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What does "embracing America" mean though? Does it mean learning English? Or is a national language insignificant? We can't even agree on what our holidays are. We're arguing about Easter and Transgender Visibility Day and Columbus Day and Indigenous Peoples Day.

I get that people like America. Because they'll have a higher standard of living if they can just manage to get here. Is America a nation or just an economic opportunity zone?

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Kash, and Don

How about you answer the outstanding question before asking me to answer another question?

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Being loyal to our country. You're highlighting something that makes America great on National Burrito Day. Let that get your CFMB juices flowing. There's something for everyone.

The American balcks are the only people who didn't migrate here for a better opportunity.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

The U.S. system of government and economy is the best the world has ever seen. But we cannot and should not project that onto other societies. They have their own crack at self determination.

When four percent of the world’s population produces about 20% of world GDP, you know we have it right. That being said, we are far from perfect and showing initial signs of decline of empire- foreign wars and unsustainable debt. Plenty of time to fix what ails us.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

American blacks should be just as outraged as anyone else regarding what is happening to Western civilization.

And they are. More and more realize every day how Leftists globalist policies have worked against them. And continue to do so.

It's good to see them pushing back.

Which question? Why western civ is superior to the alternatives?

I’d go back to the value placed on the individual, which was the start of this conversation. Whether you want to describe that to Christianity itself or it’s just a function of western civ’s Christian roots, I’m fine either way.

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Well said.

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I guess I am pleasantly surprised that you two agree that someone who is gay, does not believe in God, or wants an abortion, or identifies as a different gender is valued because we all respect the choices of individuals. This is a breakthrough.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

Western Civilization values the rights of all individuals.

The only problem is that its definition of an individual often doesn't apply to all individuals.

_________________

Bingo. Only if you think like “us”.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

Are you unable to respect the individual dignity of those you disagree with deni$?

Or are you really trying to say that we should respect all the choices that other people make?

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Live and let live. I respect all legal choices of people.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

It's indisputable that this has not always been practiced.

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I know you believe that you do.

Try that in MANY Middle Eastern countries.

Which was the point of my question in the first place.

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self discipline is a virtue that is valuable in every life

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

If the point is that a manmade system isn’t perfect, ok. Sure.

But an individual-centric model can be improved upon - and generally is improved upon - in ways the collective approach can’t & never will be. The western civ framework can more easily, say, justify infighting to end slavery, while collective models negotiate over which outgroups to punish.

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Oh I wholly agree. And that is why I said earlier that our system is superior to all others. But when folks come here from those countries, they get afforded the same rights and privileges as us. Feel free to pray to Allah. I don’t care.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

Identity politics is hegemonic within Western Civilization and directly contradicts your assertions.

_________________

Is that where we started the conversation? What does this mean? How do you know Muslim countries aren't doing the same? Why is your/our way of life objectively better?

I'm a believer in the American idea. There's no place I'd rather be. I'm also a Christian. It was forced on me, but I would like to believe it is my choice now. I think Scottish whiskey is the best alcohol. I think Chicago is the best city on the planet, and I'll die being a fanatic of Chicago teams. We're all inherently tribalistic. We're going to defend our preferences in passionate ways. I don't think this is problematic MOST of the time. It can even be a fun exercise.

I don't personally know you. I don't believe I've crossed paths with you at any point in my life. If I shit on you as a man because of your faith, where you live, the country you may have migrated from, or your skin pigment, it would make me an absolutely ignorant man. That's what a lot of us do. It's not enough for us to celebrate our preferences; we must denigrate the preferences or appearances of others. Some people have never touched a Koran, been inside a Mosque, visited a predominantly Muslim country, or interacted with Muslims, but they can tell you why they're dogs or their way of life is the worst. This type of ignorance moves tribalism to a potentially dangerous place.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Anyone who wants to sign up for the value of the individual over government, us libertarians are ready to embrace you. But be warned, you have to respect the preferences of others.

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Hawaii (fuck) You