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 Post subject: Re: Cancellation updates
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2024 4:41 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nas wrote:

Your ancient arguments have been refuted.


My arguments are contemporary and they haven't been refuted. Certainly not by you. Unless you think repeatedly calling me "ignorant" is a refutation.


Maybe you should try reading instead of recycling tired arguments and positioning them as absolutely correct.

It's also not lost on me that you've spent years shitting on America because a candidate you worship lost. Even not so quietly rooting for Russia and China to overtake America.

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 Post subject: Re: Cancellation updates
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2024 4:52 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Islamic fundamentalism is bad. But then again so is Christian fundamentalism.


This is a terrible "both sides" argument that is simply false.

If you became as fundamental as possible regarding the teachings of Jesus there wouldn't be one dead body.

That's the Bias talking. And in the 20th Century alone, there have been millions more deaths caused by Christian countries than there ever were by Muslim countries. And if we are going to be fair about the "basic" teachings of Islam, (you never will) we'd also have to state that "peace" and "brotherhood" is also intrinsic to it as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Cancellation updates
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2024 4:57 pm 
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The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Islamic fundamentalism is bad. But then again so is Christian fundamentalism.


This is a terrible "both sides" argument that is simply false.

If you became as fundamental as possible regarding the teachings of Jesus there wouldn't be one dead body.

That's the Bias talking. And in the 20th Century alone, there have been millions more deaths caused by Christian countries than there ever were by Muslim countries. And if we are going to be fair about the "basic" teachings of Islam, (you never will) we'd also have to state that "peace" and "brotherhood" is also intrinsic to it as well.



No it isn't. Why don't you actually read what Jesus and Mohammad respectively claim/order.

Men carrying the flag of any religion may act badly. That doesn't mean the tenets of the religion are inherently bad.

How many deaths did Jesus demand? How many people did Jesus kill? How about Mohammad?

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 Post subject: Re: Cancellation updates
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2024 5:01 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Islamic fundamentalism is bad. But then again so is Christian fundamentalism.


This is a terrible "both sides" argument that is simply false.

If you became as fundamental as possible regarding the teachings of Jesus there wouldn't be one dead body.


Then that wouldn't be what MANY understand to be christian fundamentalism.

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 Post subject: Re: Cancellation updates
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2024 5:03 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Islamic fundamentalism is bad. But then again so is Christian fundamentalism.


This is a terrible "both sides" argument that is simply false.

If you became as fundamental as possible regarding the teachings of Jesus there wouldn't be one dead body.

That's the Bias talking. And in the 20th Century alone, there have been millions more deaths caused by Christian countries than there ever were by Muslim countries. And if we are going to be fair about the "basic" teachings of Islam, (you never will) we'd also have to state that "peace" and "brotherhood" is also intrinsic to it as well.



No it isn't. Why don't you actually read what Jesus and Mohammad respectively claim/order.


So "peace be unto you my brother" isn't one of Islam's basic tenets? Interesting

It doesn't matter what Christ taught if MANY of his followers failed to heed the message.

And clearly they don't and never really have. As stated previously, Christian nations have been responsible for millions more in death than have Muslim nations. If you care to compare notes on it, then we can but prepare to be embarrassed once we do.

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 Post subject: Re: Cancellation updates
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2024 5:06 pm 
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The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Islamic fundamentalism is bad. But then again so is Christian fundamentalism.


This is a terrible "both sides" argument that is simply false.

If you became as fundamental as possible regarding the teachings of Jesus there wouldn't be one dead body.

That's the Bias talking. And in the 20th Century alone, there have been millions more deaths caused by Christian countries than there ever were by Muslim countries. And if we are going to be fair about the "basic" teachings of Islam, (you never will) we'd also have to state that "peace" and "brotherhood" is also intrinsic to it as well.



No it isn't. Why don't you actually read what Jesus and Mohammad respectively claim/order.


So "peace be unto you my brother" isn't one of Islam's basic tenets? Interesting

It doesn't matter what Christ taught if MANY of his followers failed to heed the message.

And clearly they don't and never really have. As stated previously, Christian nations have been responsible for millions more in death than have Muslim nations. If you care to compare notes on it, then we can but prepare to be embarrassed once we do.


Yeah, that sums up Islam. Did you miss the part about infidels?

:lol: If you don't follow someone how can you be his follower?

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 Post subject: Re: Cancellation updates
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2024 5:10 pm 
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This Ends in Antioch wrote:
Nas wrote:
"Islam is completely incompatible with any kind of country you want to live in."

This is what moved the current discussion.

I bolded the text for you.
Where did you bold that?

Nas wrote:
So no personal experience. Got it!
Personal experience with what? I’ve spent time in Muslim countries if that’s what you’re saying. I also work pretty regularly with colleagues in Muslim majority countries (and Muslims in western countries). I don’t consider a week on a work trip here & there as some sort of argument-ending expertise.

Drawing conclusions from a vacation is an inexplicably worse version of the guy who spends a semester abroad and comes back saying “cheers” and “mate.”


Nas wrote:
It's one thing to believe that's why a particular civilization exists; it's another to declare that it's objectively better, especially when you have ZERO experience with another way of life.

I think the paragraphs were central to the discussion we're having. It's okay that you found them useless. It helps me better understand your perspective. I think there's a difference between believing and knowing. You clearly don't. If it fits your worldview, you'll accept the propaganda of anyone as fact. It may make life easier, but I view it as lazy and the subsequent rhetoric that follows as ignorant. That's the disconnect.
The paragraphs were you stating what you don’t know and then attacking on that basis.

If you’re either afraid or unable to analyze disparate things and draw conclusions, that tells me quite a bit also. I’d view that as more cowardice than laziness but I’ll avoid drawing conclusions about your worldview based on some message board posts.


In the post you hacked.

Someone who spent months in a place likely has a better perspective than someone who spent a week vacationing or someone who has read and heard the same propaganda as fact for nearly 25 years.

Thanks for making it clear you didn't read the paragraphs before hacking them down to literally one sentence. I shared various preferences and beliefs that I had. I then posited that shitting on you or anyone else for not having those same beliefs or preferences would be ignorant.

From what I've seen, I'm one of the few people here willing to state an opinion and even defend said opinion. I have a lot of thoughts and beliefs, and I'm generally not uncomfortable sharing them and having them critiqued. That said, if projecting my beliefs and preferences as absolute facts or things that are objectively best for everyone is cowardice, I'll be a coward. I wasn't aware that it took courage to think one's beliefs and preferences are best for everyone. Arrogance? Yes. Courage. Not at all.

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Last edited by Nas on Thu Apr 04, 2024 5:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Cancellation updates
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2024 5:11 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Islamic fundamentalism is bad. But then again so is Christian fundamentalism.


This is a terrible "both sides" argument that is simply false.

If you became as fundamental as possible regarding the teachings of Jesus there wouldn't be one dead body.

That's the Bias talking. And in the 20th Century alone, there have been millions more deaths caused by Christian countries than there ever were by Muslim countries. And if we are going to be fair about the "basic" teachings of Islam, (you never will) we'd also have to state that "peace" and "brotherhood" is also intrinsic to it as well.



No it isn't. Why don't you actually read what Jesus and Mohammad respectively claim/order.


So "peace be unto you my brother" isn't one of Islam's basic tenets? Interesting

It doesn't matter what Christ taught if MANY of his followers failed to heed the message.

And clearly they don't and never really have. As stated previously, Christian nations have been responsible for millions more in death than have Muslim nations. If you care to compare notes on it, then we can but prepare to be embarrassed once we do.


Yeah, that sums up Islam. Did you miss the part about infidels?

:lol: If you don't follow someone how can you be his follower?


Again (and you're ducking for obvious reasons) we can compare notes as to which religion has caused more deaths in the 20th Century, Islam or Christianity. However once we do you will be thoroughly embarrassed as usual.
Thus your whole spiel regarding the inherently "violent" nature of Muslims and their religion is just simply propandist b.s. Or as your guy Biden might say, "Malarkey"

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 Post subject: Re: Cancellation updates
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2024 5:17 pm 
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The Doctor Of Style wrote:

Again (and you're ducking for obvious reasons) we can compare notes as to which religion had caused more deaths in the 20th Century, Islam or Christianity. However once we do you will be thoroughly embarrassed as usual.
Thus you whole spiel regarding the inherently "violent" nature of Muslims and their religion is just simply propandist b.s. Or as your guy Biden might say, "Malarkey"


I've never said Muslims are inherently violent. But Islam is an inherently violent religion. It was started by a warlord, you know.

The Old Testament is violent too.

I will grant you that Islam doesn't have a monopoly on so-called followers of the religion interpreting the religion's writings or scripture in a manner that justifies their bad actions. That's obvious.

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 Post subject: Re: Cancellation updates
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2024 5:20 pm 
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Are we going to get the argument that the Nazis were Christians again? At least it's not an argument that has been done 10 times yet.

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 Post subject: Re: Cancellation updates
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2024 5:21 pm 
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Islam is great as long as you're not a woman, a drinker, a pacifist, a homosexual, or a non-Muslim. Other than that, it's a terrific belief system that everyone should love. No religion that convicted felons convert to en masse could be bad.

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 Post subject: Re: Cancellation updates
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2024 5:24 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Cancellation updates
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2024 5:38 pm 
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Brick wrote:
Are we going to get the argument that the Nazis were Christians again? At least it's not an argument that has been done 10 times yet.


Just simply show me where Muslim countries as a whole, in the 20th Century, were responsible for more deaths in the 20th Century than Christian countries. Thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: Cancellation updates
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2024 5:41 pm 
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The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Brick wrote:
Are we going to get the argument that the Nazis were Christians again? At least it's not an argument that has been done 10 times yet.


Just simply show me where Muslim countries in the 20th Century were responsible for more deaths in the 20th Century than Christian countries. Thanks.
Are you counting wars?

Because it's going to be pretty hard to overcome those numbers.

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 Post subject: Re: Cancellation updates
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2024 6:16 pm 
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Brick wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Brick wrote:
Are we going to get the argument that the Nazis were Christians again? At least it's not an argument that has been done 10 times yet.


Just simply show me where Muslim countries in the 20th Century were responsible for more deaths in the 20th Century than Christian countries. Thanks.
Are you counting wars?

Because it's going to be pretty hard to overcome those numbers.


In war yes. In the 20th Century Predominantly Christian nations have been responsible for more deaths by way of war than predominantly Muslim nations. Thus any notion that Muslims are inherently violent is pure nonsense unless you first begin with Christians.

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 Post subject: Re: Cancellation updates
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2024 6:29 pm 
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Yes. Christian nations were the biggest participants in war in the 20th century. I'd say that was a good thing in at least one of them.

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Last edited by Brick on Thu Apr 04, 2024 6:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Cancellation updates
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2024 6:31 pm 
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Nas wrote:
In the post you hacked.
This is where I feel like I’m taking crazy pills. You bolded a comment I made about the importance of individualism in western civilization and transmogrified it into a “hacked” quote about Islam that I never wrote.

Nas wrote:
Someone who spent months in a place likely has a better perspective than someone who spent a week vacationing or someone who has read and heard the same propaganda as fact for nearly 25 years.

Thanks for making it clear you didn't read the paragraphs before hacking them down to literally one sentence. I shared various preferences and beliefs that I had. I then posited that shitting on you or anyone else for not having those same beliefs or preferences would be ignorant. It’s the old “mind so open your brain falls out” approach.

From what I've seen, I'm one of the few people here willing to state an opinion and even defend said opinion. I have a lot of thoughts and beliefs, and I'm generally not uncomfortable sharing them and having them critiqued. That said, if projecting my beliefs and preferences as absolute facts or things that are objectively best for everyone is cowardice, I'll be a coward. I wasn't aware that it took courage to think one's beliefs and preferences are best for everyone. Arrogance? Yes. Courage. Not at all.

I read it all, I just didn’t think your drink preference was in any way relevant. You keep falling back to this idea that things can’t be objectively compared, which, to me, is naive at-best.

There are many examples of Islamic states you could choose to make your argument. Yet you don’t want to do that for some reason. There are reasons that valuing individualism can be unpopular. You don’t want to make that case either. Western governments have long histories of moral failing; you’re not even making that case.

You just want to see yourself as reasonable, avoiding critical thinking in the process.

How about this: are there any Muslim countries where would you feel comfortable living & raising a family?

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 Post subject: Re: Cancellation updates
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2024 6:42 pm 
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Brick wrote:
Yes. Christian nations were the biggest participants in war in the 20th century..

They also were by far the nations most responsible for deaths too in the 20th Century. Let "us" not so conveniently forget that either.

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 Post subject: Re: Cancellation updates
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2024 6:45 pm 
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The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Brick wrote:
Yes. Christian nations were the biggest participants in war in the 20th century..

They also were by far the nations most responsible for deaths too in the 20th Century. Let "us" not so conveniently forget that either.

Yeah. That's how war works.

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 Post subject: Re: Cancellation updates
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2024 6:47 pm 
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Brick wrote:
Yes. Christian nations were the biggest participants in war in the 20th century. I'd say that was a good thing in at least one of them.

I think it’s probably true if you count the Soviets and Nazis as Christian nations, which you shouldn’t, but hey, why not?

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 Post subject: Re: Cancellation updates
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2024 6:48 pm 
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The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Brick wrote:
Yes. Christian nations were the biggest participants in war in the 20th century..

They also were by far the nations most responsible for deaths too in the 20th Century. Let "us" not so conveniently forget that either.

You know China exists, right?

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 Post subject: Re: Cancellation updates
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2024 6:50 pm 
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This Ends in Antioch wrote:
Brick wrote:
Yes. Christian nations were the biggest participants in war in the 20th century. I'd say that was a good thing in at least one of them.

I think it’s probably true if you count the Soviets and Nazis as Christian nations, which you shouldn’t, but hey, why not?

Jewish nations are the most peaceful I guess.

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 Post subject: Re: Cancellation updates
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2024 6:54 pm 
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This Ends in Antioch wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Brick wrote:
Yes. Christian nations were the biggest participants in war in the 20th century..

They also were by far the nations most responsible for deaths too in the 20th Century. Let "us" not so conveniently forget that either.

You know China exists, right?


China has not been "warring" with other countries like MANY in the Christian world have have they? Just Asking A Question. You can't claim to be the "peaceful" religion or "country" if you are constantly starting wars all over the globe. As Christian countries clearly do. Civil Wars don't count.

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 Post subject: Re: Cancellation updates
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2024 7:03 pm 
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This Ends in Antioch wrote:
Nas wrote:
In the post you hacked.
This is where I feel like I’m taking crazy pills. You bolded a comment I made about the importance of individualism in western civilization and transmogrified it into a “hacked” quote about Islam that I never wrote.

Nas wrote:
Someone who spent months in a place likely has a better perspective than someone who spent a week vacationing or someone who has read and heard the same propaganda as fact for nearly 25 years.

Thanks for making it clear you didn't read the paragraphs before hacking them down to literally one sentence. I shared various preferences and beliefs that I had. I then posited that shitting on you or anyone else for not having those same beliefs or preferences would be ignorant. It’s the old “mind so open your brain falls out” approach.

From what I've seen, I'm one of the few people here willing to state an opinion and even defend said opinion. I have a lot of thoughts and beliefs, and I'm generally not uncomfortable sharing them and having them critiqued. That said, if projecting my beliefs and preferences as absolute facts or things that are objectively best for everyone is cowardice, I'll be a coward. I wasn't aware that it took courage to think one's beliefs and preferences are best for everyone. Arrogance? Yes. Courage. Not at all.

I read it all, I just didn’t think your drink preference was in any way relevant. You keep falling back to this idea that things can’t be objectively compared, which, to me, is naive at-best.

There are many examples of Islamic states you could choose to make your argument. Yet you don’t want to do that for some reason. There are reasons that valuing individualism can be unpopular. You don’t want to make that case either. Western governments have long histories of moral failing; you’re not even making that case.

You just want to see yourself as reasonable, avoiding critical thinking in the process.

How about this: are there any Muslim countries where would you feel comfortable living & raising a family?


I did no such thing. One post was me highlighting a sentence and asking questions to get an understanding of what certain things meant to you. You ignored those questions. The quote in the following post was simply me sharing the genesis of my discussion with JORR. It was an attempt to point out that it differed from what you assumed.

I'm confident that I'm in some crazy simulation or government testing.

There hasn't been a person on this board who has posted more about the overall greatness and fairness of America than me. Have you missed these posts? Good Dolphin pretty much seconds the posts, but I'm usually the one making the case for America. JORR and MANY other MAGA leaning people have disagreed with me. I think they're wrong, but they are ultimately entitled to their opinion. They have a right to have a different perspective, even if I BELIEVE it's wrong. A Middle Eastern Muslim may believe their country is better or their religion is better. Again, I may disagree, but I'm not currently arrogant enough to tell them their perspective can't be different than mine. What I find important may differ from what they find important. It's all subjective. At its root, it is no different from me preferring whiskey and someone else preferring wine.

I don't think this is an attempt to be reasonable. I've never stated that I think all countries or religions are the same. Hell, I've never stated all people were the same.

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Last edited by Nas on Thu Apr 04, 2024 7:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Cancellation updates
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2024 7:03 pm 
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The Doctor Of Style wrote:
This Ends in Antioch wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Brick wrote:
Yes. Christian nations were the biggest participants in war in the 20th century..

They also were by far the nations most responsible for deaths too in the 20th Century. Let "us" not so conveniently forget that either.

You know China exists, right?


China has not been "warring" with other countries like MANY in the Christian world have they? Just Asking A Question. You can't claim to be the "peaceful" religion or "country" if you are constantly starting wars all over the globe. As Christian countries clearly do. Civil Wars don't count.

:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Cancellation updates
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2024 7:06 pm 
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The Doctor Of Style wrote:
You can't claim to be the "peaceful" religion or "country" if you are constantly starting wars all over the globe.
What if I told you there was a religious country that hadn't ever started a war? Would they be peaceful?

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 Post subject: Re: Cancellation updates
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2024 7:10 pm 
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Brick wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
You can't claim to be the "peaceful" religion or "country" if you are constantly starting wars all over the globe.
What if I told you there was a religious country that hadn't ever started a war? Would they be peaceful?


No need to "Brick" things up here. Jorr's basic premise is that the religion of Islam is based on "death" and "destruction". To that I don't recall you ever disagreeing by the way.

Ok let's check it out shall we. Christian nations have been responsible for more deaths by way of wars with foreign nations than Muslim nations in the 20th Century. Do you agree or disagree with this assertion?

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 Post subject: Re: Cancellation updates
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2024 7:15 pm 
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I am using our friends in Israel to point out the flaw in your metric here.

The US had to kill a lot of Nazis in WWII. Does that make them unpeaceful for doing it?

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 Post subject: Re: Cancellation updates
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2024 7:20 pm 
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Brick wrote:
I am using our friends in Israel to point out the flaw in your metric here.

The US had to kill a lot of Nazis in WWII. Does that make them unpeaceful for doing it?

There you go again. Let's remain on script shall we? Which countries were responsible for more deaths in the 20th Century? Muslim Or Christian? It's a simple question.

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 Post subject: Re: Cancellation updates
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2024 7:23 pm 
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The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Brick wrote:
I am using our friends in Israel to point out the flaw in your metric here.

The US had to kill a lot of Nazis in WWII. Does that make them unpeaceful for doing it?

There you go again. Let's remain on script shall we? Which countries were responsible for more deaths in the 20th Century? Muslim Or Christian? It's a simple question.

Are you considering Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union Christian nations?

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