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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2016 10:25 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
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leashyourkids wrote:
She was a poor choice to begin with and the campaign was a reflection of that. When you just sit back and hope the other candidate implodes, you're going to lose. You have to inspire people at least a little.

It's the worst campaign of our lifetime. No one did less with more.
I think the most telling thing is that she lost Wisconsin by a slim margin while NEVER entering the state since the primaries.

She didn't even know she was in any danger there.


What I find kind of interesting is that Wisconsin and Michigan are not battleground states when it is an overtly socially Conservative national candidate.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2016 10:28 am 
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leashyourkids wrote:
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It's why I voted for Bernie


What? You gave us shit for Bernie.


I said long ago mentioned that I have never voted for any Clinton in a primary. I don't like their neo-liberalism, but my support was based on their ability to win general elections and what I thought of her intelligence and hope that her old progressive Voice would return. Whoops

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2016 10:29 am 
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Grab her by the pussy today and tell your daughters it's fine. Their place is in the kitchen.



Or in the bedroom with Bill on top of them.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2016 10:31 am 
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Seacrest wrote:
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Grab her by the pussy today and tell your daughters it's fine. Their place is in the kitchen.



Or in the bedroom with Bill on top of them.


Will you at least admit you voted for Trump now?

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2016 10:31 am 
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Tall Midget wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
Midget, JORR, I can't disagree with anything you both posted, but the "whitelash" is a painful pill to swallow


Part of the problem here is that the neoliberalism championed by the Clintons has simultaneously undermined our economic base, ended the era of large scale government-sponsored public works projects, and undercut traditional liberal institutions such as labor unions, schools, newspapers, etc. As a result, the lives of working class whites have been plunged into economic misery at the same that channels for rationally understanding and navigating through this misery have been eviscerated. As a result, many whites have become more susceptible to viewing the world atavistically through an emotional and racist lens.



Trump wasn't the only person in the Republican field talking about bad trade deals. He was the only one talking about banning Muslims, "the blacks" "birtherism" and building a wall. I'm not going to state that everyone that voted for him was a racist. I will say that a large portion (30%) were racist or strongly prejudiced. Regardless of whether his supporters were racist they voted for one. It matters if all or none are if they voted for one they are complicit.

FOr the equivalency he was a candidate that ran on a racist platform too. There was plenty of "code" in there also. "Make aAmerica Great" is dog whistle and has serious historically racist overtones.


One of the big problems in this country is that people are either tired of talking about race or don't care about it. This is not going away anytime soon because he is a symbol of it now.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2016 10:34 am 
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Tall Midget wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
She was a poor choice to begin with and the campaign was a reflection of that. When you just sit back and hope the other candidate implodes, you're going to lose. You have to inspire people at least a little.

It's the worst campaign of our lifetime. No one did less with more.


She was the anointed candidate of the Democratic Establishment. Let's hope this ignominious defeat opens up space for progressive influence within a rudderless neoliberal party.



Not Hillary Clinton should not necessitate what is Donald Trump. America (the country not the poster) has to own this.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2016 10:35 am 
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long time guy wrote:
"Make America Great" is dog whistle


The dog whistle is the "Again".

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2016 10:36 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
long time guy wrote:
"Make America Great" is dog whistle


The dog whistle is the "Again".



You're right. I forgot to add that.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2016 10:44 am 
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Hopefully what resonates with both parties is having a candidate to vote for instead of against.

Thinking back to September/October where either candidate seemed to have pressure to step down or be replaced. It felt like any replacement, for either side, would have been a sweeping victory if they were at all likable. Basically not Ted Cruz.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2016 11:07 am 
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TurdFerguson wrote:
Hopefully what resonates with both parties is having a candidate to vote for instead of against.

Thinking back to September/October where either candidate seemed to have pressure to step down or be replaced. It felt like any replacement, for either side, would have been a sweeping victory if they were at all likable. Basically not Ted Cruz.


Not Ted Cruz is the silver lining here

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2016 11:13 am 
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Regular Reader wrote:
TurdFerguson wrote:
Hopefully what resonates with both parties is having a candidate to vote for instead of against.

Thinking back to September/October where either candidate seemed to have pressure to step down or be replaced. It felt like any replacement, for either side, would have been a sweeping victory if they were at all likable. Basically not Ted Cruz.


Not Ted Cruz is the silver lining here


That is what terrified me, given the nomination, he would likely be the next president.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2016 11:15 am 
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Tall Midget wrote:
Nas wrote:
I'm slowly coming to grips with all of this. Last night at around 8pm I was in shock. I couldn't believe what I was seeing. I don't think I've ever felt the way I did.


I thought she ran a shitty campaign and failed to define herself as a compelling alternative to Trump, but I tricked myself into believing the polls. So I was pretty shocked, too.


They made a great point on one of the channels last night. Reporter was saying that when she first talked to Trump back in 2013 before he was running she asked him what his slogan would be and he responded, "how about Make America Great Again." Here we are 3 years later and his message never changed. She said they were selling shirts every where in NYC and Trump shirts all said "Make America Great Again" whereas HRC's shirts all said "Hillary 2016". She had no message throughout this entire election.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2016 11:15 am 
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TurdFerguson wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
TurdFerguson wrote:
Hopefully what resonates with both parties is having a candidate to vote for instead of against.

Thinking back to September/October where either candidate seemed to have pressure to step down or be replaced. It felt like any replacement, for either side, would have been a sweeping victory if they were at all likable. Basically not Ted Cruz.


Not Ted Cruz is the silver lining here


That is what terrified me, given the nomination, he would likely be the next president.


See, I think Cruz would lose Wisconsin and Michigan. The fact that Trump is "secular" has got to be a piece of the puzzle here.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2016 11:17 am 
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long time guy wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
Midget, JORR, I can't disagree with anything you both posted, but the "whitelash" is a painful pill to swallow


Part of the problem here is that the neoliberalism championed by the Clintons has simultaneously undermined our economic base, ended the era of large scale government-sponsored public works projects, and undercut traditional liberal institutions such as labor unions, schools, newspapers, etc. As a result, the lives of working class whites have been plunged into economic misery at the same that channels for rationally understanding and navigating through this misery have been eviscerated. As a result, many whites have become more susceptible to viewing the world atavistically through an emotional and racist lens.



Trump wasn't the only person in the Republican field talking about bad trade deals. He was the only one talking about banning Muslims, "the blacks" "birtherism" and building a wall. I'm not going to state that everyone that voted for him was a racist. I will say that a large portion (30%) were racist or strongly prejudiced. Regardless of whether his supporters were racist they voted for one. It matters if all or none are if they voted for one they are complicit.

FOr the equivalency he was a candidate that ran on a racist platform too. There was plenty of "code" in there also. "Make aAmerica Great" is dog whistle and has serious historically racist overtones.


One of the big problems in this country is that people are either tired of talking about race or don't care about it. This is not going away anytime soon because he is a symbol of it now.

Trump talked about banning the blacks?

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2016 11:24 am 
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long time guy wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
Midget, JORR, I can't disagree with anything you both posted, but the "whitelash" is a painful pill to swallow


Part of the problem here is that the neoliberalism championed by the Clintons has simultaneously undermined our economic base, ended the era of large scale government-sponsored public works projects, and undercut traditional liberal institutions such as labor unions, schools, newspapers, etc. As a result, the lives of working class whites have been plunged into economic misery at the same that channels for rationally understanding and navigating through this misery have been eviscerated. As a result, many whites have become more susceptible to viewing the world atavistically through an emotional and racist lens.



Trump wasn't the only person in the Republican field talking about bad trade deals. He was the only one talking about banning Muslims, "the blacks" "birtherism" and building a wall. I'm not going to state that everyone that voted for him was a racist. I will say that a large portion (30%) were racist or strongly prejudiced. Regardless of whether his supporters were racist they voted for one. It matters if all or none are if they voted for one they are complicit.

FOr the equivalency he was a candidate that ran on a racist platform too. There was plenty of "code" in there also. "Make aAmerica Great" is dog whistle and has serious historically racist overtones.


One of the big problems in this country is that people are either tired of talking about race or don't care about it. This is not going away anytime soon because he is a symbol of it now.


Trump put repealing NAFTA and rejecting TPP at the center of his campaign, particularly in the early stages. No other candidate addressed this issue with the intensity or authenticity that he did.

Of course bigotry played an important role in Trump's victory. That's what happens when the realistic prospect of upward social mobility becomes illusory for large segments of a population, especially in a society that has closed itself off to radical or even progressive political alternatives from the reigning elites. Under these circumstances, a racist/racialized narrative can very easily become the substitute conceptual framework for a rational understanding of economic reality because it delivers a kind of "total (mis)understanding" of one's social predicament/position.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2016 11:30 am 
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shakes wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
Nas wrote:
I'm slowly coming to grips with all of this. Last night at around 8pm I was in shock. I couldn't believe what I was seeing. I don't think I've ever felt the way I did.


I thought she ran a shitty campaign and failed to define herself as a compelling alternative to Trump, but I tricked myself into believing the polls. So I was pretty shocked, too.


They made a great point on one of the channels last night. Reporter was saying that when she first talked to Trump back in 2013 before he was running she asked him what his slogan would be and he responded, "how about Make America Great Again." Here we are 3 years later and his message never changed. She said they were selling shirts every where in NYC and Trump shirts all said "Make America Great Again" whereas HRC's shirts all said "Hillary 2016". She had no message throughout this entire election.



She never wanted to be pinned down on one thing and always be able to evolve.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2016 11:33 am 
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pittmike wrote:
shakes wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
Nas wrote:
I'm slowly coming to grips with all of this. Last night at around 8pm I was in shock. I couldn't believe what I was seeing. I don't think I've ever felt the way I did.


I thought she ran a shitty campaign and failed to define herself as a compelling alternative to Trump, but I tricked myself into believing the polls. So I was pretty shocked, too.


They made a great point on one of the channels last night. Reporter was saying that when she first talked to Trump back in 2013 before he was running she asked him what his slogan would be and he responded, "how about Make America Great Again." Here we are 3 years later and his message never changed. She said they were selling shirts every where in NYC and Trump shirts all said "Make America Great Again" whereas HRC's shirts all said "Hillary 2016". She had no message throughout this entire election.



She never wanted to be pinned down on one thing and always be able to evolve.



As the leaked Clinton campaign emails reveal, even her own staff members were troubled by her lack of message.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2016 11:41 am 
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long time guy wrote:
Trump wasn't the only person in the Republican field talking about bad trade deals. He was the only one talking about banning Muslims, "the blacks" "birtherism" and building a wall. I'm not going to state that everyone that voted for him was a racist. I will say that a large portion (30%) were racist or strongly prejudiced. Regardless of whether his supporters were racist they voted for one. It matters if all or none are if they voted for one they are complicit.

FOr the equivalency he was a candidate that ran on a racist platform too. There was plenty of "code" in there also. "Make aAmerica Great" is dog whistle and has serious historically racist overtones.


One of the big problems in this country is that people are either tired of talking about race or don't care about it. This is not going away anytime soon because he is a symbol of it now.


I don't really understand how you come to that conclusion. Roughly 60,000,000 people voted Republican in the last three presidential elections. The difference in this election was lower voter turn out for Hillary. people didn't bother going to the polls either because they don't like her or they just didn't feel the need to support her


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2016 12:16 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2016 12:33 pm 
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Tall Midget wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
Midget, JORR, I can't disagree with anything you both posted, but the "whitelash" is a painful pill to swallow


Part of the problem here is that the neoliberalism championed by the Clintons has simultaneously undermined our economic base, ended the era of large scale government-sponsored public works projects, and undercut traditional liberal institutions such as labor unions, schools, newspapers, etc. As a result, the lives of working class whites have been plunged into economic misery at the same that channels for rationally understanding and navigating through this misery have been eviscerated. As a result, many whites have become more susceptible to viewing the world atavistically through an emotional and racist lens.



Trump wasn't the only person in the Republican field talking about bad trade deals. He was the only one talking about banning Muslims, "the blacks" "birtherism" and building a wall. I'm not going to state that everyone that voted for him was a racist. I will say that a large portion (30%) were racist or strongly prejudiced. Regardless of whether his supporters were racist they voted for one. It matters if all or none are if they voted for one they are complicit.

FOr the equivalency he was a candidate that ran on a racist platform too. There was plenty of "code" in there also. "Make aAmerica Great" is dog whistle and has serious historically racist overtones.


One of the big problems in this country is that people are either tired of talking about race or don't care about it. This is not going away anytime soon because he is a symbol of it now.


Trump put repealing NAFTA and rejecting TPP at the center of his campaign, particularly in the early stages. No other candidate addressed this issue with the intensity or authenticity that he did.

Of course bigotry played an important role in Trump's victory. That's what happens when the realistic prospect of upward social mobility becomes illusory for large segments of a population, especially in a society that has closed itself off to radical or even progressive political alternatives from the reigning elites. Under these circumstances, a racist/racialized narrative can very easily become the substitute conceptual framework for a rational understanding of economic reality because it delivers a kind of "total (mis)understanding" of one's social predicament/position.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2016 12:40 pm 
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Darkside wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
Midget, JORR, I can't disagree with anything you both posted, but the "whitelash" is a painful pill to swallow


Part of the problem here is that the neoliberalism championed by the Clintons has simultaneously undermined our economic base, ended the era of large scale government-sponsored public works projects, and undercut traditional liberal institutions such as labor unions, schools, newspapers, etc. As a result, the lives of working class whites have been plunged into economic misery at the same that channels for rationally understanding and navigating through this misery have been eviscerated. As a result, many whites have become more susceptible to viewing the world atavistically through an emotional and racist lens.



Trump wasn't the only person in the Republican field talking about bad trade deals. He was the only one talking about banning Muslims, "the blacks" "birtherism" and building a wall. I'm not going to state that everyone that voted for him was a racist. I will say that a large portion (30%) were racist or strongly prejudiced. Regardless of whether his supporters were racist they voted for one. It matters if all or none are if they voted for one they are complicit.

FOr the equivalency he was a candidate that ran on a racist platform too. There was plenty of "code" in there also. "Make aAmerica Great" is dog whistle and has serious historically racist overtones.


One of the big problems in this country is that people are either tired of talking about race or don't care about it. This is not going away anytime soon because he is a symbol of it now.

Trump talked about banning the blacks?


No but he stereotyped blacks by suggesting that are of there communities were fucked up. He also condescendingly suggested that they vote for him because "what do you have to lose". He also referred to one of his audience members as "my African American".

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2016 12:44 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
No but he stereotyped blacks by suggesting that are of there communities were fucked up. He also condescendingly suggested that they vote for him because "what do you have to lose". He also referred to one of his audience members as "my African American".


I mean years of Democratic leadership in rust belt cities has paid off wonderfully for African Americans.....

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2016 12:47 pm 
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ToxicMasculinity wrote:
long time guy wrote:
No but he stereotyped blacks by suggesting that are of there communities were fucked up. He also condescendingly suggested that they vote for him because "what do you have to lose". He also referred to one of his audience members as "my African American".


I mean years of Democratic leadership in rust belt cities has paid off wonderfully for African Americans.....


What have years of Conservative leadership done for African Americans? I'd love for you to answer that question. The Democrats aren't a panacea for blacks by any stretch but if you want to debate it let's roll. I'd love to debate that one.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2016 12:51 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
ToxicMasculinity wrote:
long time guy wrote:
No but he stereotyped blacks by suggesting that are of there communities were fucked up. He also condescendingly suggested that they vote for him because "what do you have to lose". He also referred to one of his audience members as "my African American".


I mean years of Democratic leadership in rust belt cities has paid off wonderfully for African Americans.....


What have years of Conservative leadership done for African Americans? I'd love for you to answer that question. The Democrats aren't a panacea for blacks by any stretch but if you want to debate it let's roll. I'd love to debate that one.

Don't debate with too many people.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2016 12:55 pm 
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Panther pislA wrote:
long time guy wrote:
ToxicMasculinity wrote:
long time guy wrote:
No but he stereotyped blacks by suggesting that are of there communities were fucked up. He also condescendingly suggested that they vote for him because "what do you have to lose". He also referred to one of his audience members as "my African American".


I mean years of Democratic leadership in rust belt cities has paid off wonderfully for African Americans.....


What have years of Conservative leadership done for African Americans? I'd love for you to answer that question. The Democrats aren't a panacea for blacks by any stretch but if you want to debate it let's roll. I'd love to debate that one.

Don't debate with too many people.



i like the cut of your jib on that one.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2016 12:57 pm 
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Panther pislA wrote:
long time guy wrote:
ToxicMasculinity wrote:
long time guy wrote:
No but he stereotyped blacks by suggesting that are of there communities were fucked up. He also condescendingly suggested that they vote for him because "what do you have to lose". He also referred to one of his audience members as "my African American".


I mean years of Democratic leadership in rust belt cities has paid off wonderfully for African Americans.....


What have years of Conservative leadership done for African Americans? I'd love for you to answer that question. The Democrats aren't a panacea for blacks by any stretch but if you want to debate it let's roll. I'd love to debate that one.

Don't debate with too many people.


Yeah, but no one from THAT "side" ever steps to the plate. Except to try and patronize

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2016 1:04 pm 
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After 8 years of democratic rule, everyone is in the same
place with no advancement (except for imu who just keeps on fast tracking) or is in a worse financial position ...

Everyone?

I'm not sure its even a large majority. Not if you're sayo g right now vs 2008

If you go back to 90s maybe


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2016 1:11 pm 
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Telegram Sam wrote:
TurdFerguson wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
TurdFerguson wrote:
Hopefully what resonates with both parties is having a candidate to vote for instead of against.

Thinking back to September/October where either candidate seemed to have pressure to step down or be replaced. It felt like any replacement, for either side, would have been a sweeping victory if they were at all likable. Basically not Ted Cruz.


Not Ted Cruz is the silver lining here


That is what terrified me, given the nomination, he would likely be the next president.


See, I think Cruz would lose Wisconsin and Michigan. The fact that Trump is "secular" has got to be a piece of the puzzle here.


Cruz won Wisconsin's primary because Charlie Sykes and Mark Belling, both Scott Walker supporters, were Never Trumpers in service of Walker, whom Trump kicked in the mouth way early on. I don't think he would have won there in a general.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2016 2:40 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Darkside wrote:
After 8 years of democratic rule, everyone is in the same
place with no advancement (except for imu who just keeps on fast tracking) or is in a worse financial position ...

Everyone?

I'm not sure its even a large majority. Not if you're sayo g right now vs 2008

If you go back to 90s maybe


Huh?

Median household income, when adjusted for inflation, is lower today than it was in January 2008. Most of the financial gains from the recovery have gone to the top 1% of the population. And approximately 70% of all Americans currently have accumulated $1000 or less in savings. That's a pretty compelling formula for economic despair right there.

http://www.advisorperspectives.com/dsho ... um-in-2016
http://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2016/09/23/survey-69-of-americans-have-less-than-1000-in-savings-infographic/#5bf936a791ee
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/28/upshot/gains-from-economic-recovery-still-limited-to-top-one-percent.html?_r=1

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Posts: 2220
pizza_Place: ....
long time guy wrote:
Panther pislA wrote:
long time guy wrote:
ToxicMasculinity wrote:
long time guy wrote:
No but he stereotyped blacks by suggesting that are of there communities were fucked up. He also condescendingly suggested that they vote for him because "what do you have to lose". He also referred to one of his audience members as "my African American".


I mean years of Democratic leadership in rust belt cities has paid off wonderfully for African Americans.....


What have years of Conservative leadership done for African Americans? I'd love for you to answer that question. The Democrats aren't a panacea for blacks by any stretch but if you want to debate it let's roll. I'd love to debate that one.

Don't debate with too many people.


i like the cut of your jib on that one.

Lol nice job sniffing-out the "because then you would be nothing but a 'mass-debater'" payoff - nice!!! :thumright: :thumright: :thumright:

See, its working!!! The love! :sunny: :sunny: :sunny:

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I apologize to The Hawk


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