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What would be considered a 2016 Cubs choke?
Missing the playoffs completely 30%  30%  [ 17 ]
Losing the Wild Card Game 20%  20%  [ 11 ]
Losing in the NLDS 21%  21%  [ 12 ]
Losing in the NLCS 14%  14%  [ 8 ]
Losing in the World Series 11%  11%  [ 6 ]
Only winning three consecutive World Series 4%  4%  [ 2 ]
Total votes : 56
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 9:30 am 
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Hockey Gay wrote:
Not winning the division at this point or blowing a 2 game lead in the playoffs to lose.

Just straight up losing in the playoffs isn't a choke since it's a total crap shoot.



Gay = Bernsie.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 9:41 am 
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cub fans already setting up their excuses.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 9:43 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
It's the dumbest excuse in sports that the MLB playoffs are a crap shoot and don't matter.

It is either 1) Not true or 2) Baseball is a dumb sport without skill and not worth paying attention to.


Take it up with the idiots at Harvard then, not us. Good luck with that btw.

http://harvardsportsanalysis.org/2013/09/undeserving-champions-examining-variance-in-the-postseason/

... As we expected, the NBA seems to produce postseason champions most aligned with regular season performance. The long format of the seven-game series and reduced likelihood of upsets on account of the high number of possessions have resulted in the best regular season team winning eight of the nineteen possible championships….

What is remarkable is just how bad the MLB playoffs really are. Owing to the length of its 162 game season, one might think that regular season performance would actually be a fairly good indicator -– better, for example, than in the NFL where strength of schedule can have a huge impact – of the overall quality of a team. Given this fairly reasonable assumption, if you chose the eight best regular season teams, or even eight of the top ten because you require four from each league, and then just asked each team to draw straws to determine the World Series, the average winning team would be better determined than by the current system. Only three times has the best team from the regular season ended up winning the World Series. ...

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 9:47 am 
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Playoff baseball isn't the same game as regular season baseball.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 9:48 am 
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Hatchetman wrote:
Playoff baseball isn't the same game as regular season baseball.


Ya don't say ...

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 9:49 am 
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:lol: Here we go. Rick will refuse to believe that there is a random nature to playoff baseball, even though basically every expert alive would agree. It's just a "Cubs excuse."

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 9:50 am 
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IMU wrote:
Anything can happen in four straight games. It would be extremely disappointing, but it wouldn't be a choke.
Elmhurstmessedup17.

You have started threads saying that the Cubs check all 3 boxes (best hitting, pitching, & fielding), they have the best pitching staff in the last 50 years, and "Cubs win 2016 World Series", on top of the dozens of other over the top posts you have made about the Cubs this season.

Today, you claim losing before the WS would not be a choke. Flip flopping and talking out of both sides of your mouth like that is usually reserved for Elmhurst Steve. Even you, being the the Cubbiest of Cubs fans, generally have more sense than that. Not anymore I guess.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 9:50 am 
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Don Tiny wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
It's the dumbest excuse in sports that the MLB playoffs are a crap shoot and don't matter.

It is either 1) Not true or 2) Baseball is a dumb sport without skill and not worth paying attention to.


Take it up with the idiots at Harvard then, not us. Good luck with that btw.

http://harvardsportsanalysis.org/2013/09/undeserving-champions-examining-variance-in-the-postseason/

... As we expected, the NBA seems to produce postseason champions most aligned with regular season performance. The long format of the seven-game series and reduced likelihood of upsets on account of the high number of possessions have resulted in the best regular season team winning eight of the nineteen possible championships….

What is remarkable is just how bad the MLB playoffs really are. Owing to the length of its 162 game season, one might think that regular season performance would actually be a fairly good indicator -– better, for example, than in the NFL where strength of schedule can have a huge impact – of the overall quality of a team. Given this fairly reasonable assumption, if you chose the eight best regular season teams, or even eight of the top ten because you require four from each league, and then just asked each team to draw straws to determine the World Series, the average winning team would be better determined than by the current system. Only three times has the best team from the regular season ended up winning the World Series. ...
Harvard would say 2 then.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 9:51 am 
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Quote:
Only three times has the best team from the regular season ended up winning the World Series.
2005.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 9:51 am 
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leashyourkids wrote:
:lol: Here we go. Rick will refuse to believe that there is a random nature to playoff baseball, even though basically every expert alive would agree. It's just a "Cubs excuse."
If it is true then baseball is a dumb sport where skill doesn't really matter.

I'm fine with that.

But, I could always start bumping all those posts about how the Cubs were better than the Cardinals last year. :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 9:52 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
IMU wrote:
This is what I chose. It would be unfortunate to lose in the NLCS again, but that cannot be considered a choke.
:lol:

The best hitting, pitching, and fielding team not making the World Series would not be a choke?

Well, it happens pretty often.


And no, losing to the Giants or Mets would not be a choke. Those teams might be better than the Cubs by the time the playoffs roll around. The Giants are like 3 games back right now.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 9:53 am 
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It's called hyperbole, Frank. It's kind of what the Cubs fan and even some Sox fans do here. We're just trying to have a somewhat genuine baseball conversation in this thread for a change.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 9:56 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
It's the dumbest excuse in sports that the MLB playoffs are a crap shoot and don't matter.

It is either 1) Not true or 2) Baseball is a dumb sport without skill and not worth paying attention to.

Its not a total crap shoot. It is the sport with the most disparity between reg season and playoffs though. I could see not liking that.


Without skill is a pretty dumb comment, though. Competitors can be evenly skilled and competitions can come down to randomness. Doesnt take away from the skill.


But dont worry. If the Cubs lose at any point, many will be angry and you can celebrate.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 10:00 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
:lol: Here we go. Rick will refuse to believe that there is a random nature to playoff baseball, even though basically every expert alive would agree. It's just a "Cubs excuse."
If it is true then baseball is a dumb sport where skill doesn't really matter.

I'm fine with that.

But, I could always start bumping all those posts about how the Cubs were better than the Cardinals last year. :lol:

You're quest to make Cub fans look bad or say something wrong has grown over the years.


The Cubs and Cardinals were very close to equal last year as the reg season records would indicate. The Cubs were the better team in the playoffs because the Cardinals best pitcher was out.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 10:00 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
It's the dumbest excuse in sports that the MLB playoffs are a crap shoot and don't matter.

It is either 1) Not true or 2) Baseball is a dumb sport without skill and not worth paying attention to.

Its not a total crap shoot. It is the sport with the most disparity between reg season and playoffs though. I could see not liking that.


Without skill is a pretty dumb comment, though. Competitors can be evenly skilled and competitions can come down to randomness. Doesnt take away from the skill.


But dont worry. If the Cubs lose at any point, many will be angry and you can celebrate.
So is it a crap shoot or not?

Everything has randomness in it in all sports. The Houston Rockets aren't sitting at home saying "Well, it can come down to randomness so oh well".

If in the playoffs, the best team is not at a fairly large advantage over the other teams they are better than then skill doesn't matter much. How could it?

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 10:02 am 
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:lol: It has more randomness than any other sport. It doesn't have to be purely random to be more random than all others. And that absolutely is a real thing.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 10:03 am 
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leashyourkids wrote:
:lol: It has more randomness than any other sport. It doesn't have to be purely random to be more random than all others. And that absolutely is a real thing.

83 win Cardinals .

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 10:04 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
:lol: Here we go. Rick will refuse to believe that there is a random nature to playoff baseball, even though basically every expert alive would agree. It's just a "Cubs excuse."
If it is true then baseball is a dumb sport where skill doesn't really matter.

I'm fine with that.

But, I could always start bumping all those posts about how the Cubs were better than the Cardinals last year. :lol:

You're quest to make Cub fans look bad or say something wrong has grown over the years.


The Cubs and Cardinals were very close to equal last year as the reg season records would indicate. The Cubs were the better team in the playoffs because the Cardinals best pitcher was out.


Rick and I have had this conversation 1,000 times. The Cardinals at the beginning of the year weren't the same team as the Cardinals at the end of the year, nor were the Cubs. The Cubs were absolutely the better team at the end of the year.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 10:05 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
It's the dumbest excuse in sports that the MLB playoffs are a crap shoot and don't matter.

Its not a total crap shoot. It is the sport with the most disparity between reg season and playoffs though. I could see not liking that.
So is it a crap shoot or not?

:lol:

Classic

Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Everything has randomness in it in all sports

More in baseball than any major sport. Also the small sample size of playoffs vs regular season. In the NFL the playoffs are 25% as long as the season. NBA and NHL similar. Baseball post season is 1/16th of a regular season.



Boilermaker Rick wrote:
If in the playoffs, the best team is not at a fairly large advantage over the other teams they are better than then skill doesn't matter much. How could it?

This is insane.

So if two competitors in any competition are close in skill, skill ceases to matter?

I disagree.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 10:05 am 
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obviously cub fans can enjoy the team for the next 3 months.... but none of this regular season matters anymore. the only things that matter until October is player health, specifically the health of lackey, lester, and arrieta and if Theo acquires the right bullpen help at the deadline


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 10:07 am 
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billypootons wrote:
obviously cub fans can enjoy the team for the next 3 months.... but none of this regular season matters anymore. the only things that matter until October is player health, specifically the health of lackey, lester, and arrieta and if Theo acquires the right bullpen help at the deadline


Nope.

Winning in the playoffs doesn't mean anything.

The regular season determines the real winner.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 10:08 am 
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badrogue17 wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
:lol: It has more randomness than any other sport. It doesn't have to be purely random to be more random than all others. And that absolutely is a real thing.

83 win Cardinals .

2005 white sox


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 10:09 am 
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Hatchetman wrote:
like that seattle team that won 120 games and choked.

When did that happen?

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 10:09 am 
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Kirkwood wrote:
badrogue17 wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
:lol: It has more randomness than any other sport. It doesn't have to be purely random to be more random than all others. And that absolutely is a real thing.

83 win Cardinals .

2005 white sox


We gonna do this now?

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 10:11 am 
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leashyourkids wrote:
:lol: It has more randomness than any other sport. It doesn't have to be purely random to be more random than all others. And that absolutely is a real thing.



Baseball is a game of time and repetition. Other sports really aren't. I can watch two minutes of Jordan and Boilermaker Rick on a basketball court and know who is the better player. If I watch BRick and Trout bat ten times each I'll still really have no clue which guy is better.

But we're not really deciding who is the best in a vacuum (HEY IMU!), we're deciding who is the best in a situation that every player, executive, manager, coach, and fan knows is coming.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 10:12 am 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
badrogue17 wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
:lol: It has more randomness than any other sport. It doesn't have to be purely random to be more random than all others. And that absolutely is a real thing.

83 win Cardinals .

2005 white sox


We gonna do this now?

That's what happens when you Sox fans poke the beast known as Kirkwood.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 10:13 am 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
IMU wrote:
Anything can happen in four straight games. It would be extremely disappointing, but it wouldn't be a choke.
Elmhurstmessedup17.

You have started threads saying that the Cubs check all 3 boxes (best hitting, pitching, & fielding), they have the best pitching staff in the last 50 years, and "Cubs win 2016 World Series", on top of the dozens of other over the top posts you have made about the Cubs this season.

Today, you claim losing before the WS would not be a choke. Flip flopping and talking out of both sides of your mouth like that is usually reserved for Elmhurst Steve. Even you, being the the Cubbiest of Cubs fans, generally have more sense than that. Not anymore I guess.

I believe the Cubs will win the World Series. Opinion.

The Cubs through 2 months of the season have the best pitching and fielding, and the second best hitting (if you base it on runs scored, though other metrics would show the Cubs might have the best hitting.) Fact.

Losing before the World Series would not be a choke. Opinion.

I am, in fact, allowed to post both facts and opinions.

A team can disappoint a fan without "choking."

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Last edited by IMU on Fri Jun 03, 2016 10:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 10:14 am 
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IMU wrote:
Hatchetman wrote:
like that seattle team that won 120 games and choked.

When did that happen?


nobody remembers when because they are losers. The 2001 Ms won exactly 120 games before the Yanks dispatched them.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 10:14 am 
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Don Tiny wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
It's the dumbest excuse in sports that the MLB playoffs are a crap shoot and don't matter.

It is either 1) Not true or 2) Baseball is a dumb sport without skill and not worth paying attention to.


Take it up with the idiots at Harvard then, not us. Good luck with that btw.

http://harvardsportsanalysis.org/2013/09/undeserving-champions-examining-variance-in-the-postseason/

... As we expected, the NBA seems to produce postseason champions most aligned with regular season performance. The long format of the seven-game series and reduced likelihood of upsets on account of the high number of possessions have resulted in the best regular season team winning eight of the nineteen possible championships….

What is remarkable is just how bad the MLB playoffs really are. Owing to the length of its 162 game season, one might think that regular season performance would actually be a fairly good indicator -– better, for example, than in the NFL where strength of schedule can have a huge impact – of the overall quality of a team. Given this fairly reasonable assumption, if you chose the eight best regular season teams, or even eight of the top ten because you require four from each league, and then just asked each team to draw straws to determine the World Series, the average winning team would be better determined than by the current system. Only three times has the best team from the regular season ended up winning the World Series. ...


"Given this fairly reasonable assumption"

They're obviously overlooking the huge impact that starting pitching has on the game. If Arrieta or Kershaw could start every game, the same way LeBron and Curry play every game, I'm sure the "randomness" of the playoffs would disappear.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 10:14 am 
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Hatchetman wrote:
IMU wrote:
Hatchetman wrote:
like that seattle team that won 120 games and choked.

When did that happen?


nobody remembers when because they are losers. The 2001 Ms won exactly 120 games before the Yanks dispatched them.

Oh did they now? I think you better check your facts, sir.

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