Here is what I don't understand….I just got a new SUV, it's worth about 35-40K. Full coverage costs me about $55 dollars a month on this vehicle. I could easily do something stupid, and total the car, which would be a ~30K loss. That's a decent probability, relatively speaking of course. I'm pretty sure at least everyone here has been in at least one, significant car accident in their life. And it doesn't take much to push the vehicle into "total loss" category.

No forgetting the minor stuff, and I do have a 3K deductible, my family BBO plan is about $1200 a month. I pay about $350 of it, my employer the rest. What are the odds of a major surgery, hospital stay of around $50-100K? More? My wife and I are in our mid 30's , all healthy, so why is the risk of a six figure medical bill causing a premium payment 20X that of my auto insurance payment, which is as good if not better risk for a 30K loss? And I'm not even getting into any body/injury coverage's...also included...Unless auto insurance is just a helluva deal?

Should there be $100k hepatitis drugs? Without the jury-rigged American healthcare system, would there be $100k hepatitis drugs?

I'm sure you'd agree at the very least that someone shouldn't have to face down enormous hospital bills because, for instance, his appendix ruptured, or he got hit by a car, or what have you. No one's saying there should be dick-lengthening procedures paid for WITH YOUR TAX DOLLARS, but we do need to rethink healthcare on a fundamental level.

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My guess is that your auto policy is capped at 100k or so, whereas your health policy is unlimited. And due to the Obamacare rules where insurers cannot charge older people more than 3x what they charge youngsters like you, you end up paying more than what would be your "fair share."

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Absolutely that is a huge problem, maybe the biggest. It's like college costs. The answer isn't figuring out how to give people money to afford college, but to figure out why it now costs 60-70k to go.

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How is that going to help younger people like me that get healthcare through work? Unless my employer started making hiring/firing decisions to adjust an age demographic pool to get a better insurance deal, which I'm pretty sure breaks a law or two?

Here is my idea for the basics of ChetCare:

- Any item claimed in a typical single year by 60% of Americans in your age band (e.g. 46-54) should generally be your own responsibility. Sinus infections, pink eye, high blood pressure meds, etc. My blood pressure meds cost $3/month. I'm sorry, but if you're in 46-54, pay for it out of your salary, pay for it out of your welfare check, or get a charity to pay for it for you.
- Every penny you pay for medical expenses is a pre-tax deduction against income. Unlimited HSA w/o cap, and you can move money into the HSA after you've incurred the expense and reimburse against what you paid.
- Everything else should be a pooled single-payer responsibility to pay. 50% flat cost, 50% progressive as a flat percentage of income.
- No bullshit about hidden price lists. If a urinalysis is $4 for Aetna, it's $4 for everybody.

The Aetnas and Humanas and Blue Crosses would still exist for people who are willing to be risk adverse and pay for it for cost certainty on their 60%. But I'm not sure they should be allowed to be billed directly from the MD, or else the MD should have the right to offer a cash discount to those who do not ask to have the bill sent to the insurance company.

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"When people want their version of the truth, they go find it, no matter how baseless their beliefs." -- Ken Rosenthal

This legislation, if you can even call it that, shouldn't even be up for a vote.

It's an embarrassment to the country that it even got through the committees. Just shows who they are in the tank for.

People will self-pay, rather than give the insurance companies $500 per month. If it's catastrophic, the hospital can't refuse the patient. He or she is still taken care of.

And no wonder the Republicans are saying that there can't be a huge tax cut, unless Ryancare passes. Ryancare pays for the tax-cut, because the government will be spending less on healthcare. The middle class and poor take the hit.

I could get behind some tort reform, but I'd like to see real adjustments to insurance companies and Big Pharma at the same time.

But it's all academic with the foolish planned cuts to federal investment in scientific research. Big, wasteful American business wins again!

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

Why are they touting this as their "only and best" chance at repealing Obamacare? Why the rush rush rush?

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Maybe it's "fake news", but CNN is now reporting that the health care bill will fail, according to a GOP faction.

What a bunch of pussy....IT"S TRUMPCARE

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I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

I'm out.

Because this is how entitlements take root...Romney wins four years ago and there's a really good chance this isn't nearly the mess it is for the GOP now. People say they hate Obamacare but it's been around long enough that if you take it away enough people are going to be pissed about it that you'll have a problem come the next election.

Yeah, Obamacare is bad but not having it is worse. And the worst people of all are the shithead liberals who want to see people in Trump states lose Obamacare and Medicaid expansion to smite them for not electing Mother.

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I don't know. I'd say the worst people are the ones who wasted all that time trying to repeal Obamacare for years, now having their chance and they have nothing to go to. They spit something out in a matter of weeks and are trying to push it through just to say they repealed Obamacare.

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This. And I said it before about why it was both fought so hard over for and against. Me and Joe Biden knew once it was signed it was never going back to where things were.

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Elections have consequences.

I see your point. It looks to me though like they are rushing through something like you say. Then my assumption is they will continue to change or chip away longer term.

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Elections have consequences.

So its a better option but they fucked it up so its really not better?

They're also bad, but I save my greatest contempt for the "Blue Exit" dickheads.

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Yup I've said the same for years. Obamacare isn't (wasnt?) perfect, but it was better than what we had before. I think the best thing to do would be to fix Obamacare. There are good things in it, keep those, but fix it. Not start over. And if you do start over, start over like the way Obama wanted to originally provide healthcare but didn't have the balls to do vs the republican congress.

What they are proposing is not better but tax credits over a subsidy is better.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

They're rushing it through, because they want to do the tax cuts next. The cuts to Medicare and Medicaid will free up $880 billion in federal spending, which they'll use to pay for the tax cut for the top.

The legislation is completely self-serving for Trump, who only wants to enrich himself. He could care less about making health care affordable for Americans. All the existential and fear-mongering arguments by the GOP are just smoke screens for their real motive. This is after Trump promised not to cut Medicare and Medicare. He is nothing but a liar in sheep's clothing.

Because they don't want to risk their blue-ribbon dipshit constituents not voting for them or their ilk in a couple of years or so.

I predict nothing consequential ever really gets passed, and they just do the "starve the beast" routine on the ACA.

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

REPUBLICare actually. They can all hang for it.

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

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I am the liquor Randy

Is that based off the meme of the mugshot of that guy that was huffing gold paint?

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

I have no idea but Paul Ryan is a cocksock and it made me chuckle

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I am the liquor Randy

They are largely ineffective, though. In the end, people pay a flat rate to consume as much health care as they want. Even if private insurers were cost-effective at identifying fraud or abuse, they are still ripe for lawsuits and regulatory slaps on the wrist. The problem is that they all advertise for no reason. They all sell the same products with the same shitty service and add zero value to the economy.

Though FF would argue otherwise, I am not a big government guy, but there is one solution to healthcare, and It's the only thing that still gets Bernie Sanders hard.

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Ah ... I understand now.

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

i think the biggest problem with obamacare is the expansion of medicaid was refused by nearly half the states (republican ones, go figure)

if all the states adopted the expansion, virtually everyone would actually have healthcare, and they would never even consider rolling back the aca.

its sad that the only reason the expansion wasnt forced on the states is because that rule would have prevented the bill from passing.

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the world will always the world. your entire existence is defined by your response.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!