Those who form the superteams are still mostly getting the max contracts or at least huge deals with tax savings in places like Florida.

I doubt rookies, who are the poorest of all players in the league, are going to take small deals so they can play on a good team.

The idea that rookies need to be drafted is pretty much just a leftover concept from the days when free agency didn't exist. It's hard to make an argument that rookies can't make their own decisions but they can a few years later when their first contracts are up. We should really have a draft for all free agents too if it's that big of a deal.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Is that really where the biggest problem is though? Outside of the 76ers, no team is throwing away entire seasons on purpose, and they were just doing what the Cubs were doing from 2011-2014. I'm not trying to go into default NBA apologist mode here, I know it's a big issue especially towards the end of the season, but I'm not sure I would agree it's worse than MLB at the moment. It's a pretty big issue in both leagues. It's basically a non-issue in the NFL. Not sure how it affects the NHL.

Edit: to answer your question, I believe an unweighted lottery would pretty much completely eliminate tanking, except for possibly the last week of a season when a possible 8 seed knows they will get swept and tries to get into the lottery. We would just have to weigh that benefit against the cost of having less competitively balanced teams (in theory)

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Cmon man. For all of our lives pre-Ricketts we had the Tribune company owning this team not giving a single fuck about winning as long as the attendance was good. Theo comes along and tells you he has a plan, but it's gonna take a few years. Now that annoys you more than the Tribune company stealing year after year of your honest fandom? That's just silly. Theo took 3 years to accomplish something Tribune Co never would have.

I honestly don't get it. How can you hate the plan when it worked so ideally? Even if the White Sox don't build themselves a dynasty they can still have a perennial ALCS contender for years.

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I am with you.

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Elections have consequences.

Or they can miss the playoffs for another decade. Who the fuck knows?

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Exactly, but could you honestly stand going another year with the Reinsdorf/Williams retooling philosophy? I'm not even a White Sox fan, but that timid strategy bothered me.

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I'd say it's worse in the NBA over MLB in a photo finish, because again, Adam Silver had to go as far as installing new management in the 76ers (who apparently went back to tanking anyway). Too many baseball teams are non-competitive, especially in the National League, but I don't think anyone's done anything more severe than making sure the Marlins stopped gaming their revenue-sharing plan. Maybe they need to.

With the exception of 2015 and Connor McDavid/Jack Eichel, two guys who (especially McDavid) are supposed to be "generational players" like Crosby and Ovechkin, the NHL hasn't seen many races to the bottom lately. It's a running gag to make some sort of rhyming slogan for the "tank," starting with "Fail for Nail" (who himself failed) to "Stop Winnin' for McKinnon" and now "No Wins For Nolan," but the tanks themselves aren't that severe. With the stagnation of the salary cap, teams are getting a little more reluctant to mortgage their draft picks, especially in the first and second rounds, so it's harder for teams to strip down for a full tank. Colorado has been historically bad this year and all they were able to do with all their talent (again, a roster full of high draft picks who aren't tanking, just BAD) was pawn the charred remains of Jarome Iginla for like a conditional 7th or something. Also, the randomness of hockey and redassedness of its players conspire to prevent a 76ers-level atrocity, though again, this Avalanche team, I don't know.

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I wanted Kenny and Hahn fired, but that doesn't mean I want to tank a whole season either. I think Kenny has the right approach to sports and to building a team, he just sucks at it.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

What's one or two or three whole seasons of absolute trash compared to building a deep farm system, and putting your franchise in a position of sustained success (ideally without major injuries)? It's not the end of the world, and I welcomed the plan with open arms when I first heard Theo unveil it.

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You have to go young to rebuild which means your team will probably suck for a couple years. I wouldn't necessarily call that tanking though.

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I can't predict the future, man. Maybe I'm dead in five years when all this comes to fruition. In that case I'd rather spend my summers watching a 78 win team than a 68 win team. You're talking about throwing three entire seasons of games away like it's nothing. At that point, how are you even a sports fan?

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I'm a Cubs fan, FF.

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Exactly. I don't see it as a big problem in the NHL. Colorado is inexplicably bad, but not by design. I can't recall any recent tank jobs that were very obvious in the NHL.

Well, Buffalo would be the obvious one. They tanked 2014 for Ekblad (got Reinhart) and 2015 for McDavid (got Eichel). Since then. they've worked their way to the fringe of contention and should be all set once they launch Bylsma for a non-dumb coach.

The Coyotes pulled the ripcord on 2015 about halfway through and damn near passed the Sabres for 30th place. It's how we got Antoine Vermette; they were selling every expiring contract they had (and strangely enough, signed like three of the guys back that summer).

The Oilers were never tanking all those years. They just never had defense or goaltending.

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I always thought about going the other way, getting rid of the lottery. I don't think that would eliminate "tanking" as it has come to be known, but it would almost certainly reduce the amount of time any given team can reasonably expect to spend in "tank mode".

Since 1990, the worst team in the NBA, by record, has won the lottery only 5 times out of the 27 drafts using a weighted lottery system. If we assume the best player in the draft can be selected with the #1 overall pick, then a team which "successfully tanks" (attains the worst overall record), still has only a 19% chance of being able to select the best player in the draft. Even if we include the runner-up worst team in the league, a team in the bottom-2 of the league in terms of record has only a 33% chance of being able to select the best player overall in the draft.

Any team that aims to win the NBA Draft Lottery via tanking will have at best, an expected "tank time" of 3 seasons, during which they must finish in the bottom-2 of the NBA in terms of record. Of course, this is all assuming there is an unquestionable "best player in the draft", add in the vagaries of scouting, the varying talent pool of the NCAA feeder system, and the amount of time teams are likely to spend tanking in order to find the best player available at the top of the draft only increases.

I would much rather have a league wherein teams only need to be on "draft welfare" for 1-3 seasons, as opposed to the 3-5 mandated by a lottery system, before they can hope to be competitive again.

The other thing that's such a mindfuck about NBA tanking is the utter Annie Hall-ness of it: "they need to tank because only championships matter, and for such a weak draft class!"

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I'm very much in favor of tanking. The goal is to win the championship. Nowadays it doesn't happen unless you hit rock bottom first.

Nothing I hate more than fucking people who were cheering for the Bulls to win games at the end of the year Derrick Rose was going to be the #1 pick. Like in 10 years they would rather have those 4 extra wins that kept them out of dead last vs a 10 year superstar. Granted, we all know how Rose turned out thanks to injuries, but the point still stands.


Even if my team is looking like a borderline playoff team, I'd rather they tank in most instances. Especially basketball where the teams at the bottom of the playoffs never go far in the playoffs.

People against tanking are extremely short sighted.

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that's cause it doesn't matter in baseball.


Basketball is a totally different story.

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You don't have to tank in basketball. Look at everyone who has won a title since 2000, and who tanked and didn't. I'll be generous and say every Spurs title is because of tanking in 1998. I'll also give you the Cavs since they had multiple 1st overall picks even though I don't think they were purposely tanking. But outside of those and the 2007 Celtics, no other tank job in the last 15-20 years has lead to a title. Golden State was bad before they got Steph and Klay, but they were never tanking.

2016 Cleveland Cavaliers TANKED
2015 Golden State Warriors DIDN'T TANK
2014 San Antonio Spurs TANKED
2013 Miami Heat DIDN'T TANK
2012 Miami Heat DIDN'T TANK
2011 Dallas Mavericks DIDN'T TANK
2010 Los Angeles Lakers DIDN'T TANK
2009 Los Angeles Lakers DIDN'T TANK
2008 Boston Celtics TANKED
2007 San Antonio Spurs TANKED
2006 Miami Heat DIDN'T TANK
2005 San Antonio Spurs TANKED
2004 Detroit Pistons DIDN'T TANK
2003 San Antonio Spurs TANKED
2002 Los Angeles Lakers DIDN'T TANK
2001 Los Angeles Lakers DIDN'T TANK
2000 Los Angeles Lakers DIDN'T TANK

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I don't have a problem with the tank to be honest. I who are opposed to tanking yet bash their favorite teams for being mired in mediocrity. Take the Bulls for instance. You are a Bulls fan so you tend to look at their cup as always being half full. So do I. If the Bulls tank I'm cool with it (as they did Post JOrdan). If they decide that they want to be an 8th seed I'm cool with that too. I'm not going to bash them for being mediocre yet also hate it if they tank. I would prefer that they be better but constantly drafting in the middle of the 1st doesn't lend itself to being a title contender.


You win with High draft picks. In order to attract top flight free agents you have to have other players for them to play with. Durant doesn't leave OKC if there isn't a Curry or Thompson in place.

I think each situation is different but in the case of the Bulls the best thing for them right now would be to tank.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I knew you were going to go there but You must have forgot about Robinson and Duncan both No. 1 overall picks. Without them Parker and Ginobili are irrelevant

You also conveniently omitted the tank job Pitino did as a means of acquiring Duncan. Future of the Celtics would have changed dramatically had he succeeded.

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You're forgetting about their last Finals MVP and their next Finals MVP, Kawhi Leonard. They will win the title again in the next couple of years and they won't have a player they drafted in the top 10 on the roster when they do.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

My HOT take, you never want your troops on the ground tanking..I'm talking about players and coaches. It fosters a bad culture in the locker room, IMO. And you really don't want to move forward with players/coaches that are "cool" with losing.

But I am ok with management (GM's. team presidents) making personal decisions, that are essentially "tanking".

I have doubts about them winning another without Duncan. You saw in that OKC series just how ordinary they looked without Duncan playing at a high level. I'm a Leonard fan but I don't think he is enough to carry them to a championship. Aldridge is on the decline and they will need another All Star caliber guy in order to get there.

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I'm not against tanking. But there is a balance between the utility of one season and the long term benefit of a run of years. Otherwise, let fans into the stadium for free and give away your TV/radio rights for nothing. No?? Well then make an effort to occasionally win.

If you have healthy players, you need to play them most of the time. Not every single game, it's an 82 game schedule, and if Phoenix wants to sit Eric Bledsoe against a bad team like Sacramento to make sure that they don't accidentally win, fine. But benching your best players for your last 15-20 games because you're not trying to win starts to cross the line.

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"When people want their version of the truth, they go find it, no matter how baseless their beliefs." -- Ken Rosenthal

If it is a requirement to tank in order to win a title or be very close how do you explain the Patriots, Steelers, Packers, Spurs, Cardinals etc.

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Elections have consequences.

Buffalo is about it - and more 2015 than 2014, in my opinion.

The Oilers definitely just sucked on the back end. And Arizona, I won't include in the true definition of "tanking" that FF suggested. They were akin to a trade deadline sale, and I think that's legitimate.

The Spurs are in the position they are now due to tanking to draft Duncan #1 overall in 1998.

They have drafted very well since that time.

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It's about the last legitimate thing they've done, this team that allegedly has Pavel Datsyuk, Chris Pronger, and Dave Bolland on it.

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