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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 9:06 pm 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
My ancestors came over about 10 years before the Civil War because everybody was dying from a lack of potatoes.

We don't talk about it much.


You people will probably be asking for a parade or some shit.

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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 9:07 pm 
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SpiralStairs wrote:
America wrote:
I think people who suffered directly from the war had mythologize it to make sense of the horrors they witnessed and family members they lost. That mythology had become ingrained in southern culture even as the Civil War generation and their children died off. I dont think I'd go so far as to call it a celebration, but even if it were I dont have a problem celebrating the sacrifices of brave men who died horrible deaths that no common person deserves.


But the Civil War was over a hundred years ago. Shouldn't they just get over it? Shit, my ancestors were still living in Europe at the time and I bet MANY people living in the south today dont have any connection to the war.

Again, the children of Civil War veterans existed in substantial numbers until the around the 1970's. Would you tell orphans of Vietnam to "just get over it"? What about KIA from the Normandy Invasion? My guess is no, because unlike Confederate soldiers you are taught (in the north) to respect those who died in WW2 because of the nobility of the conflict in which they perished.

I think your gripe here is specific to the Civil War, and even moreso Confederate dead, because you've assigned moral relativism to the conflict. Confederates = bad guys, Union = good guys. I personally do not see the difference, just a whole bunch of wasted life in a dumb war that never should've happened.


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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 9:08 pm 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
My ancestors came over about 10 years before the Civil War because everybody was dying from a lack of potatoes.

We don't talk about it much.

Pretty lucky that they didnt get drafted.


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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 9:09 pm 
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badrogue17 wrote:
So Avalon Hill could make a game?

A fellow geek

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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 9:09 pm 
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don't people write like really long books about this?

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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 9:10 pm 
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America wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
My ancestors came over about 10 years before the Civil War because everybody was dying from a lack of potatoes.

We don't talk about it much.

Pretty lucky that they didnt get drafted.



With the 3rd pick of the 1861 Civil War Draft, the Chicago Bears Pick ....... JEFFERSON DAVIS.......


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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 9:13 pm 
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Are all of America's takes this bad or just the ones I read?

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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 9:14 pm 
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HawaiiYou wrote:
America wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
My ancestors came over about 10 years before the Civil War because everybody was dying from a lack of potatoes.

We don't talk about it much.

Pretty lucky that they didnt get drafted.



With the 3rd pick of the 1861 Civil War Draft, the Chicago Bears Pick ....... JEFFERSON DAVIS.......


HE WAS FIGHTING AGAINST CHILDREN!!

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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 9:16 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 9:18 pm 
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America wrote:
SpiralStairs wrote:
America wrote:
I think people who suffered directly from the war had mythologize it to make sense of the horrors they witnessed and family members they lost. That mythology had become ingrained in southern culture even as the Civil War generation and their children died off. I dont think I'd go so far as to call it a celebration, but even if it were I dont have a problem celebrating the sacrifices of brave men who died horrible deaths that no common person deserves.


But the Civil War was over a hundred years ago. Shouldn't they just get over it? Shit, my ancestors were still living in Europe at the time and I bet MANY people living in the south today dont have any connection to the war.

Again, the children of Civil War veterans existed in substantial numbers until the around the 1970's. Would you tell orphans of Vietnam to "just get over it"? What about KIA from the Normandy Invasion? My guess is no, because unlike Confederate soldiers you are taught (in the north) to respect those who died in WW2 because of the nobility of the conflict in which they perished.

I think your gripe here is specific to the Civil War, and even moreso Confederate dead, because you've assigned moral relativism to the conflict. Confederates = bad guys, Union = good guys. I personally do not see the difference, just a whole bunch of wasted life in a dumb war that never should've happened.


I assume you share the same feelings for the children of slaves as you do the children of civil war veterans?

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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 9:19 pm 
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Darkside wrote:
Are all of America's takes this bad or just the ones I read?


Apparently.

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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 9:51 pm 
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To answer the original question: Not Lincoln's desire to end slavery, evidently.


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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 10:09 pm 
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Maybe Yahoo! Answers knows?


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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 10:13 pm 
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KDdidit wrote:
Maybe Yahoo! Answers knows?


Lycos, man. Lycos.


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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 10:20 pm 
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viewtopic.php?f=91&t=18328&start=240

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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 10:27 pm 
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Lincoln didnt care about Slavery early on. He just wanted to keep the union together. He even used the N word. But that was the norm back then. He also shared a bed with another man. But it was not what you think. Guys did that back then and even throughout the 1950s.


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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 10:34 pm 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
To answer the original question: Not Lincoln's desire to end slavery, evidently.


Abe Lincoln desired to end slavery about as much as Trump desires to end NAFTA.

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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 10:46 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
To answer the original question: Not Lincoln's desire to end slavery, evidently.


Abe Lincoln desired to end slavery about as much as Trump desires to end NAFTA.


And to think that Abe actually stood for something and not a attention seeking whiny petulant bitch. Then again His supporters weren't either :wink:

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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 10:48 pm 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
To answer the original question: Not Lincoln's desire to end slavery, evidently.


It's funny how the State's Rights folks of the last century pressed that theme

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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 11:07 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
To answer the original question: Not Lincoln's desire to end slavery, evidently.


Abe Lincoln desired to end slavery about as much as Trump desires to end NAFTA.


Except for everything he said on the topic literally ever, SAVE for some choice quotes you strip of all context and hold up as the only things you'll consider as his thoughts on the subject, then yeah. :lol:

Long Time Gay is better.


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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 11:09 pm 
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TL; DR: slavery

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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 12:07 pm 
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badrogue17 wrote:
So Avalon Hill could make a game?


I didn't know you where a nerd gamer like myself and a few others that keep it hidden round here.

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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 12:25 pm 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
To answer the original question: Not Lincoln's desire to end slavery, evidently.


Abe Lincoln desired to end slavery about as much as Trump desires to end NAFTA.


Except for everything he said on the topic literally ever, SAVE for some choice quotes you strip of all context and hold up as the only things you'll consider as his thoughts on the subject, then yeah. :lol:

Long Time Gay is better.



I never knew how a guy that never makes a move to end something is somehow desirous to bring it to an end. Lincoln's hand was forced so I don't know how you can conclude that he desired to bring slavery to an end. At best he was being transparent. At worst he was being disingenuous and phony.

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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 12:44 pm 
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At best, he pretty much ended slavery.


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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 1:19 pm 
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HawaiiYou wrote:
With the 3rd pick of the 1861 Civil War Draft, the Chicago Bears Pick ....... JEFFERSON DAVIS.......


I find it awfully strange that in Arlington County and/or Alexandria (forget exactly which), right over the river from our capital, there's a major thoroughfare called the Jefferson Davis Highway. You'd think they would have changed that by now. I mean, this isn't some backwater, this is one of the wealthiest and most Democratic parts of the country.

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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 1:34 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
HawaiiYou wrote:
With the 3rd pick of the 1861 Civil War Draft, the Chicago Bears Pick ....... JEFFERSON DAVIS.......


I find it awfully strange that in Arlington County and/or Alexandria (forget exactly which), right over the river from our capital, there's a major thoroughfare called the Jefferson Davis Highway. You'd think they would have changed that by now. I mean, this isn't some backwater, this is one of the wealthiest and most Democratic parts of the country.


Democrats wanted to let the South go and keep slavery.

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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 1:35 pm 
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You have the critical thinking abilities of an algal bloom.

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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 1:38 pm 
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Tell me I am wrong.

In the United States Presidential election of 1864, Abraham Lincoln was re-elected as president. Lincoln ran under the National Union banner against his former top Civil War general, the Democratic candidate, George B. McClellan. McClellan was the "peace candidate" but did not personally believe in his party's platform.

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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 1:40 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
You have the critical thinking abilities of an algal bloom.
:lol:

And of course, he is going to double-down.

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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 2:07 pm 
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KDdidit wrote:
At best, he pretty much ended slavery.



Byproduct of winning the war. Little to do with his "desires" because as he stated many times his desire was to preserve the Union. I can't give a guy credit for doing something that wasn't necessarily part of his objective. I'm not going to knock anyone that does but the issue of slavery hits a little close to home. He took a circuitous route to ending slavery at best. He accommodated it every step of the way.

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