ever go to black beetle?

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@audioidkid

Boilermaker, these quotes are all from you...
BTW I hope my tone does not come off as argumentative here...

Yes, but the fact that the colonists were so dreadfully outnumbered and outgunned caused them to change the face of modern warfare, this was the first guerilla war, and it showed that small arms can defeat an empire.



My point is that small arms used correctly can be quite effective. Here, terrorists use knives to effectively attack America as a country. Don't underestimate the power in handguns. Not all battles are fought with armor.

Understoon on the home invaders thing but one must never forget the lessons learned in war, even one as old as the Revolutionary war. The citizens needed to defend themselves against the powers that be at the time, and we as citizens may indeed need to fight this battle against our government again someday.


Disagree. Ruby Ridge and Branch Davidian held off the government for weeks. It can be done. It may need to be done some day. Ruby Ridge didn't turn out well, but a small handful sure held their own. And one must never underestimate the determination on a man defending his own home.

For now. There may come a time when we need to defend ourselves against our own government, which was the point of the "well regulated militia."

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Never gone in.

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"It's not exactly a rocket surgery." D.J.

I don't have a problem with guns nor the existing gun laws, my problem is with the way gun laws are enforced and the penalties that breaking of those laws lack.

You want to legally own a gun, that's fine, but I would propose a serious step up in gun related punishment.

In my world anyone who failed to conduct a proper & thorough background check would be charged as an accessory to any crime committed with that weapon.
Not the crap check they do today - I mean a serious investigation including interviews with family and associates. Run a notice in the local paper and on a national web site for 2 weeks saying that Darkside is trying to buy a gun, come forward if you have an issue with it.
(fuck, you have to do it for a name change!!!)
The type of scrutiny that the NIU shooter would have never passed.

I would also build a ballistic database for all legally owned guns - which eventually over time tend to become illegally owned...
Think of it as a universal gun fingerprint database which would assist law enforcement in tracking the weapons used in crimes. Every year a gun owner would be required to update his weapon's ballistic imprint.

Finally, I would propose legislation that places 100% liability on the initial owner of the gun. As an owner, the burden of proof would be totally on you to prove any transfer of ownership, or proper disposal of the weapon. If it was stolen, and it can be proven that you did not take the proper storage precautions, the liability is still yours.

As a bar owner, or a host of a party, you can be held liable for serving alcohol, but this would be too strict for guns???

Worried about cost? Don't be.
Pass it all on to the gun buyer.
You want a gun that bad, than pay for that privilege.
As Dennis Miller once said, exact change shouldn't be the only requirement to owning a handgun.

Peace

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“Mmmm. Move over, eggs. Bacon just got a new best friend - fudge.”

Ruby Ridge and Branch Davidian were two seconds from being destroyed by the government if they had wanted. It's not a good public policy to bomb domestic targets. In an uprising against the government that has a chance of succeeding the same courtesy wouldn't have been given. Remember, my whole point has been that the amount of guns you have will not allow you to stand up to the government like you could in the past. The only thing that will is democracy and the chain of command of the military not following the orders of a corrupt government.

The revolutionary war soldiers changed the face of modern warfare but so has the trillions of dollars put into war budgets. Small scale guerilla war is possible as is being shown in Afganistan and Iraq but domestically it would never work.

Attacks against the government are possible with a handgun, but I don't think policy should be dictated so people can fire a handgun at a tank and get blown up in the case that a corrupt government takes over.

Citizens do have a right to defend themselves. I have no problem with guns in people's homes. I don't like the idea of going into a mall or a bar or a sporting event and knowing that people all around me are carrying guns. I think it would cause as many incidents as it would solve problems.

That however was not my original point. The point is that you are never going to sell me on the evils of gun control by telling me that what happened in the revolutionary war could happen again.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

avoid texas and arizona then.

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@audioidkid

Scary

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"It's not exactly a rocket surgery." D.J.

That's good advice regardless which thread it appears in.

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“Mmmm. Move over, eggs. Bacon just got a new best friend - fudge.”

By the way, I am not naive enough to think that I am not around people with concealed weapons(legally or illegally) all the time. I just think that the steps taken to make sure that it's not as easy to do as grabbing your ipod in the morning is a good thing.

I guess I'm for some gun control.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

keys, wallet, phone, 9mm....

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@audioidkid

Back to your original point - I recommend checking out Combat Handguns magazine. They have a lot of info for the regular guy. They also have a nice section on people using their own guns to stop a criminal, as well as info about court cases against people who used their own guns to defend themselves. The big guideline they recommend for home defense is to get a gun that has double-action only. The "hairpin" trigger pull that can be found in a single-action scenario can lead to accidental firing and problems in court. A double-action only takes a much more deliberate trigger pull.

If you're worried about stopping power, I would go with the .45 -a 9mm tends to go straight through people more easily which doesn't necessarily stop them.

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Paws Up

Yes BWW (yyuummm BWW) is not that far, maybe a 2 minute drive east of Cabela's.
What about going to BassProshop? I remember them having guns a few years back, but that could have changed .

I have always and will always say that you can ban guns and have tougher laws but that will only harm those that are responsible. Yes the nut job at NIU bought the gun Legally, but the shop was at fault for not paying attention that he had mental health issues, so maybe there need to be something done about shops that don't abide by the laws. If some moron that's a criminal wants a gun to commit a crime they will get it even if it's legal or illegal...so how will tougher gun laws stop the moron gangbangers in the CHA projects from getting a gun and killing someone?

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hello??? headshots.

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@audioidkid

Cabela's is more hunting than fishing while BPS is more fishing than hunting. Cabela's has a bigger stock of guns.

That's what worries me. If you repeal the 2nd ammendment, then what's next?

Right to bear arms has outlived its mission. Do you really think that if we disagreed with the politics of the government that we could have a good ole fashion revolution? I'm sorry, but you have been watching too much Red Dawn.... WOLVERINES!!!!



Lame excuse... if it's a bad law... it's a bad law.

And as always, Wiki says it better than I can. The Brits have got it right, IMHO

All firearms in the United Kingdom must be licensed on either a firearm certificate (FAC) or a shotgun certificate.

Shotguns are defined in UK law as smoothbore firearms with barrels not shorter than 24" and a bore not larger than 2" in diameter, no revolving cylinder, and either no magazine or a non-detachable magazine that is not capable of holding more than two cartridges. This effectively gives a maximum three round overall capacity, while shotguns with a capacity exceeding 2+1 rounds are subject to a firearm certificate. Shotguns thus defined are subject to a slightly less rigorous certification process.

A firearm certificate differs from a shotgun certificate in that justification must be provided to the police for each firearm; these firearms are individually listed on the certificate by type, calibre, and serial number. A shotgun certificate similarly lists type, calibre and serial number, but permits ownership of as many shotguns as can be safely accommodated. To gain permission for a new firearm, a "variation" must be sought, for which a fee is payable, unless the variation is made at the time of renewal, or unless it constitutes a one-for-one replacement of an existing firearm which is to be disposed of. The certificate also sets out, by calibre, the maximum quantities of ammunition which may be bought/possessed at any one time, and is used to record the purchasing of ammunition (except, optionally, where ammunition is both bought, and used immediately, on a range).

To obtain a firearm certificate, the police must be convinced that a person has "good reason" to own each gun, and that they can be trusted with it "without danger to the public safety or to the peace". Under Home Office guidelines, gun licences are only issued if a person has legitimate sporting or work-related reasons for owning a gun. Since 1946, self-defence has not been considered a valid reason to own a gun. The current licensing procedure involves: positive verification of identity, two referees of verifiably good character who have known the applicant for at least two years (and who may themselves be interviewed and/or investigated as part of the certification), approval of the application by the applicant's own family doctor, an inspection of the premises and cabinet where guns will be kept and a face-to-face interview by a Firearms Enquiry Officer (FEO) also known as a Firearms Liaison Officer (FLO). A thorough background check of the applicant is then made by Special Branch on behalf of the firearms licensing department. Only when all these stages have been satisfactorily completed will a licence be issued.

Any person who has spent more than three years in prison is automatically banned for life from obtaining a gun licence.

Any person holding a gun licence must comply with strict conditions regarding such things as safe storage. These storage arrangements are checked by the police before a licence is first granted, and on every renewal of the licence. A local police force may impose additional conditions on ownership, over and above those set out by law. Failure to comply with any of these conditions can mean forfeiture of the gun licence and surrender of any firearms to the police.

The penalty for possession of a prohibited firearm without a certificate is currently a mandatory minimum five year prison sentence and an uncapped fine.

In addition, the Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006 increased restrictions on the use, ownership, sale and manufacture of both airguns and imitation firearms.

If the weather wasn't so horrible and the women's teeth weren't so bad, I'd be moving to the UK...

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This is my signature...

I would hope there is stricter criteria for repealing ammendments then some dude on a message board saying its a "bad" law.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

.

I believe the same can be said for Australia.

How can making the criminals the only ones with guns be safer?

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Paws Up

How about for the sake of change then?

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Paws Up

Im not sure yet. I'll vote present and get back to you.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Yeah, there is.
Keeping Score has to do a poll.

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“Mmmm. Move over, eggs. Bacon just got a new best friend - fudge.”

Well, keeping a law in place that is outdated just because it's been in there a long time is, well, insane. That's just my opinion, I never said that we should change the law just because I said so... I still believe in democracy after all. Don't conveniently put words in my mouth, um, er, thread.

By the way... what is reason.com? Is it credible? I'm not criticizing, I seriouly never heard of it. All I know is gun related homicides have fallen in England. Gun related injuries have flattened (despite a rising population). I'm not a rocket scientist, but that sounds like it's working.

You know, so has that pesky 1st amendment. If we could get all the right wing hate speech off the airwaves, for the sake of the children, we would be a better society.
Now that I've typed that out, I wonder, do children drink rice wine? Why are we always so worried about the sake of the children? they're too young for that.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Funny you said "rice wine." Actually, sake ingredients and production process have more resemblance to that of beer than wine.

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"It's not exactly a rocket surgery." D.J.

I'm struggling for a witty retort. Give me a minute.


ya know what. you guys are right. give everyone guns. that's a great idea. besides charlton-heston luvs 'em and he is a Wildcat, so that's reason enough for me.

Reason is the leading libertarian magazine in the country. It's the "National Review" or "The Nation" of the libertarian world. It's credible.

Your framework reveals your flaw, however. Homicide is homicide; if I'm dead, I don't particularly care whether it was because I was shot to death or stabbed to death. Even if gun-related homicides go down, if every other type of homicide go up, then there's a problem. That's pretty much what has happened, and with lots of other crimes too; rape, robbery, etc.

There's one other problem as well; British crime rates are notoriously unreliable (Theodore Dalyrimple has made a career of documenting the inanities of British police work.) Each district is under tremendous pressure to keep the statistics as low as possible, so hundreds and hundreds of crimes go unreported. And even with that, crime has skyrocketed in Britain over the past few decades while crime in America has been falling consistently since the early 90s.

IB, just one question. Though MUD cited the passage of new British legislation in part that addresses gun control in seemingly rational ways, and continues to assert that the British crime rate has "flattened", why is it that in response you cite a 5+ year old article?

I would posit that in the passing five plus years, hundreds if not thousands of articles/pieces would have been written, should the analysis of the piece you cited be as clear cut as the author suggests. Yet, we sit here with a 5 yr. old article from a relatively obscure publication questioning not only fairly well accepted beliefs, but the statistical authenticity of the British law enforcement offices, Home Secretary(?), etc. and are asked to accept it's conclusions as valid?

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.