You continue to couch your argument under the guise of "Islamic terrorism". I'm not arguing nor have I ever argued that Islamic terrorism was started because of U.S. intervention. What I am arguing is that the U S became a target of Islamic terrorism because of U.S. intervention. History and not theory supports my claim also. The connections are blatantly obvious.

The U.S. didn't go to war in Iraq to stop Islamic terrorism. It didn't even exist in Iraq at that point.

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If you think the concept that not delivering a pizza is in anyway similar to raping children and killing innocents well then I'm speechless.

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I hear ya, Leash. I had an incident with a Jehovah's Witness and his crazed mother before this and got in trouble for it, so I was suppressing a bunch of stuff.

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Isn't the belief espoused in O'Sullivan's "manifest destiny" equally wacky? Haven't wars been started and people conquered in the name of this belief? Didn't Bush loosely use this as a basis for invading Iraq? There is a strongly Christian component to this belief also.

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History & the commonly accepted "facts" are written by the winners. I have no desire to learn about their "prophet", but I will assume the worst as was the case in the Crusades, European colonialism and American expansion. But to discuss the latter is taboo and unpatriotic in some circles One man's terrorism is just as amoral as deliberately spreading smallpox or poliyical assassination to others. Much for politcal power, draped in religious zealotry.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

Baby, that was my point above. Folks have used religious beliefs and texts to justify all sorts of behavior throughout history.

I don't believe the Muslim Terrorists have any interest in religion at all. They are merely using it as an excuse to gather power, territory, and a rational to attract followers.


No truly religious person could ever justify killing innocent people. And it's one thing to kill people in war where both sides have soldiers trained for battle and quite another to help suicide bombers kill patrons of a cafe.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

But there is an incredibly important fundamental difference.

As a Christian, I can't legitimately use the words and actions of Christ to defend colonialism or imperialism or slavery.

If I were Muslim, I can certainly use the Koran and the actions of Mohammed to justify the raping and murder of others.



But most importantly, you are not allowed to discuss the obvious disparity within the statement "Islam is a religion of peace" and the actions of it's prophet.

But you can and SHOULD discuss the failings of Christianity. But you will not be able to put them on its founder.

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Right that's why I qualified my statement. It's still people twisting the words of scripture to fit their own personal hate.

The spin on Christianity being somehow the more nobler of religions doesn't jive either. The Protestants had to leave Europe because of religious persecution. You substitute the word heretic for infidel and you won't find much of a distinction.

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The history of it is crazy. As I have mentioned in other threads, I just finished a book on the Byzantine Empire, so around 300-1450 AD. One thing that is important to note, is that there really was no set territory in those times (just like the Roman Empire). It was a constant expansion and contraction through the modern Middle East. As most know, the Byzantine Empire really was the connection/bridge between Europe and Modern Middle East. At times they were in Northern Africa, Israel, Syria and lands further East.

History is littered with conquest, slavery, assimilation, religious splits, and all of those have an impact on today's world. Oppressed groups are going to use "unacceptable" tactics to impact change. Heck, the Revolutionary War was won in part because we didn't follow traditional military tactics and used a lot of guerilla styled attacks to win. Today, the Patriots would have been terrorists.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

A greater truth has never been said. Truly a "person" without fault.......but he was God. But pretty much all Christian actions subsequent showed the failings of man kind.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

Seacrest I know you and I have gone back and forth on religion for years now, but do you honestly just skip over the parts where I qualify the severity before asking the question? If you do then please just exit from religious debates.

Also if you don't think that if JimBob and Bobby Ray and Kim knew they could get away with killing gays in the name of religion they wouldn't do so then you are kidding yourself. In their eyes the Bible says gays should be stoned to death.

They were trying to get the poor Jews in the desert to behave.

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Ass-kickin' terrorists.

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Yup. 6 Conference Championships in how many years?

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What people can get away in the name of God, is far different then people murdering and raping in the name of God because his Prophet did the same thing. One has actual religious justification attached while the other does not.

Furthermore, one religion is murdering gays in the name of God, while the other is not.

If all you have to offer is false equivalencies then feel free to stop responding to me.

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When did the Protestants leave Europe?

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Why are only 14 percent of black CPS 11th-graders proficient in English?

Completely agree with that.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

If you don't think the actions and requirements of Christ are more noble then those of Mohammed and Islam, then you should probably change the subject now.

Substitute "Love one another" for "Kill the infidels" and even the most thick headed can see an obvious difference.

You unwillingness to accept the actions of the prophet is belied by the fact that most Muslims do.

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So now you are both saying that Mohammed had no interest in religion too.

Fascinating.

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Absolutely ... it's simply the most convenient and compelling 'recruitment' tool available to them.

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

Towards the end? Definitely not

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

If you aren't interested in a discussion with equivalencies then you need to exit stage left from discussions involving religion. If you're gonna play the "their scriptures say kill people card" then I'm not letting your ass off the hook on the OT. The Bibile doesn't get to start with the Gospels just because the OT doesn't fit your narrative.

Didn't they teach you that the Protestants running England ran out the Protestants that moved to the US?

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Seacrest you can't compare a human, even one considered a Prophet, to God. Muhammad was fighting tribal battles. He is "merely" a Prophet.

I don't know seventh century rules of war, but I doubt anyone back then followed the Geneva Conventions.

Edit: Would Moses be a better comparison for Muhammad?

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Hawaii (fuck) You

100%

The OT has nothing to do with Christianity. It is the history of the Jews before the arrival of Christ.

I'm sure will find some agreement for that misplaced and mistaken view, but two mistakes doesn't make a true equivalency.

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They also taught me that they left due to Religious persecution. Maybe you have a different interpretation.

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ETA: Sorry, we are trying to have a raccoon removed from the crib, so my replies have been clipped.

But I do challenge students all the time. I can't stand those teachers who think, "Well, if the student says it, it's valid."

One problem is that when it comes to certain populations (and those populations differ depending on the school, but at the school I was at, a local university, that included Muslims), administrators don't stand behind you--especially when you lose your temper a little and drop a "hell" or "shit." Once they hear that, they bite down on it like a pit bull and refuse to let go, even when the student vaguely threatens you. They might also put you through a Kafkaesque trial meant to dehumanize you before firing you or not renewing your contract.

So with the fundamentalists where I teach now, when unexpected shit like that happens, I sometimes let it go. I speak much more professionally now to protect myself, but it's those vague threats ("It's coming") that can have me reacting before I'm even conscious of it.

Anyway--just wanted people to know that many teachers are not pushovers, and sorry for writing such clipped responses.

TL;DR: I hear ya.

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I'm not the one comparing, I'm repeating what Islam teaches. And in case you didn't know, they taught that Jesus was a prophet as well.

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