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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 6:31 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
long time guy wrote:
She didn't do a good job of answering pay for play Clinton Foundation.

She also didn't handle the Email either. That is going to be a stain but it's not a deal killer.


I do think that stuff is terrible, but nobody cares. At least nobody who isn't already voting for Trump. She's got all this horrible damning e-mail correspondence and her defense is that it was hacked by Russians. Think about that for a minute. She's not sorry about anything she has done or said, but only that she got caught. And she isn't even embarrassed. In fact, I have yet to see either Clinton embarrassed by anything. She is trying to blame Trump for the hacking somehow. It's really ridiculous.

What's the worst thing her horrible email correspondence revealed?

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 6:37 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
long time guy wrote:
She didn't do a good job of answering pay for play Clinton Foundation.

She also didn't handle the Email either. That is going to be a stain but it's not a deal killer.


I do think that stuff is terrible, but nobody cares. At least nobody who isn't already voting for Trump. She's got all this horrible damning e-mail correspondence and her defense is that it was hacked by Russians. Think about that for a minute. She's not sorry about anything she has done or said, but only that she got caught. And she isn't even embarrassed. In fact, I have yet to see either Clinton embarrassed by anything. She is trying to blame Trump for the hacking somehow. It's really ridiculous.

What's the worst thing her horrible email correspondence revealed?


Nothing really. Things you would probably suspect was going on in every campaign.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 6:39 pm 
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Nas wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
long time guy wrote:
She didn't do a good job of answering pay for play Clinton Foundation.

She also didn't handle the Email either. That is going to be a stain but it's not a deal killer.


I do think that stuff is terrible, but nobody cares. At least nobody who isn't already voting for Trump. She's got all this horrible damning e-mail correspondence and her defense is that it was hacked by Russians. Think about that for a minute. She's not sorry about anything she has done or said, but only that she got caught. And she isn't even embarrassed. In fact, I have yet to see either Clinton embarrassed by anything. She is trying to blame Trump for the hacking somehow. It's really ridiculous.

What's the worst thing her horrible email correspondence revealed?


Nothing really. Things you would probably suspect was going on in every campaign.

The question was intended for a non partisan poster. I thank you for your response though.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 7:07 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Nas wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
long time guy wrote:
She didn't do a good job of answering pay for play Clinton Foundation.

She also didn't handle the Email either. That is going to be a stain but it's not a deal killer.


I do think that stuff is terrible, but nobody cares. At least nobody who isn't already voting for Trump. She's got all this horrible damning e-mail correspondence and her defense is that it was hacked by Russians. Think about that for a minute. She's not sorry about anything she has done or said, but only that she got caught. And she isn't even embarrassed. In fact, I have yet to see either Clinton embarrassed by anything. She is trying to blame Trump for the hacking somehow. It's really ridiculous.

What's the worst thing her horrible email correspondence revealed?


Nothing really. Things you would probably suspect was going on in every campaign.

The question was intended for a non partisan poster. I thank you for your response though.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 7:43 am 
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People talk crap about Fox News, but Chris Wallace was the best moderator this whole year.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 9:31 am 
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Gloopan Kuratz wrote:
People talk crap about Fox News, but Chris Wallace was the best moderator this whole year.


Fox is terrible, but Wallace did a great job.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 12:31 pm 
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http://www.mediaite.com/online/kellyann ... ald-trump/

:lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 12:49 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
http://www.mediaite.com/online/kellyanne-conway-retweets-another-deeply-unflattering-thing-about-her-boss-donald-trump/

:lol:

Jesus ... if they wrote something like that happening into an episode of The Simpsons or South Park you'd feel like it was too absurd to be funny.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 1:07 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
long time guy wrote:
She didn't do a good job of answering pay for play Clinton Foundation.

She also didn't handle the Email either. That is going to be a stain but it's not a deal killer.


I do think that stuff is terrible, but nobody cares. At least nobody who isn't already voting for Trump. She's got all this horrible damning e-mail correspondence and her defense is that it was hacked by Russians. Think about that for a minute. She's not sorry about anything she has done or said, but only that she got caught. And she isn't even embarrassed. In fact, I have yet to see either Clinton embarrassed by anything. She is trying to blame Trump for the hacking somehow. It's really ridiculous.

What's the worst thing her horrible email correspondence revealed?


a lack of discretion, which is pretty big for a president (its pretty big for a SOS as well)

ineptitude with technology she uses every day (obviously this isn't a deal breaker for me)

either an unwillingness to listen to subordinates or surrounding herself with inept subordinates

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 1:09 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
ineptitude with technology she uses every day (obviously this isn't a deal breaker for me)

:lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 1:18 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
long time guy wrote:
She didn't do a good job of answering pay for play Clinton Foundation.

She also didn't handle the Email either. That is going to be a stain but it's not a deal killer.


I do think that stuff is terrible, but nobody cares. At least nobody who isn't already voting for Trump. She's got all this horrible damning e-mail correspondence and her defense is that it was hacked by Russians. Think about that for a minute. She's not sorry about anything she has done or said, but only that she got caught. And she isn't even embarrassed. In fact, I have yet to see either Clinton embarrassed by anything. She is trying to blame Trump for the hacking somehow. It's really ridiculous.

What's the worst thing her horrible email correspondence revealed?

ineptitude and an inability to surround herself with people who either knew better or who could make her do better.

Not a deal-breaker, just a potential harbinger.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 1:23 pm 
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Image

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 1:27 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
either an unwillingness to listen to subordinates or surrounding herself with inept subordinates


This has been an issue since her 2008 campaign. While the Obama campaign was dazzling everyone, Hillary's people all seemed petty, incompetent, vindictive, creepily loyal, and often just plain weird. The WikiLeaks dumps show that it's only gotten worse since then.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 1:28 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
long time guy wrote:
She didn't do a good job of answering pay for play Clinton Foundation.

She also didn't handle the Email either. That is going to be a stain but it's not a deal killer.


I do think that stuff is terrible, but nobody cares. At least nobody who isn't already voting for Trump. She's got all this horrible damning e-mail correspondence and her defense is that it was hacked by Russians. Think about that for a minute. She's not sorry about anything she has done or said, but only that she got caught. And she isn't even embarrassed. In fact, I have yet to see either Clinton embarrassed by anything. She is trying to blame Trump for the hacking somehow. It's really ridiculous.

What's the worst thing her horrible email correspondence revealed?


a lack of discretion, which is pretty big for a president (its pretty big for a SOS as well)

ineptitude with technology she uses every day (obviously this isn't a deal breaker for me)

either an unwillingness to listen to subordinates or surrounding herself with inept subordinates


I think 1 and 3 are big issues. Especially looking at how poorly her campaign was ran. I think #2 was said to keep her from possibly getting indicted.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 1:43 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
either an unwillingness to listen to subordinates or surrounding herself with inept subordinates


This has been an issue since her 2008 campaign. While the Obama campaign was dazzling everyone, Hillary's people all seemed petty, incompetent, vindictive, creepily loyal, and often just plain weird. The WikiLeaks dumps show that it's only gotten worse since then.


My GF worked on the Obama campaign and has always had really nice things to say about the people she worked with...She did not have much good to say about the Hillary folks.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 2:19 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
ineptitude with technology she uses every day (obviously this isn't a deal breaker for me)

:lol:


How is Hillary with the quote function?

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 2:27 pm 
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Chus wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
ineptitude with technology she uses every day (obviously this isn't a deal breaker for me)

:lol:


How is Hillary with the quote function?


I work alone, son

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 2:31 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
either an unwillingness to listen to subordinates or surrounding herself with inept subordinates


This has been an issue since her 2008 campaign. While the Obama campaign was dazzling everyone, Hillary's people all seemed petty, incompetent, vindictive, creepily loyal, and often just plain weird. The WikiLeaks dumps show that it's only gotten worse since then.


Donna f'ing Brazille, you know, the campaign chair of an almost un losable presidential election that she lost, is sitting there as DNC chair 16 years after the event...ponderous man. She should be relegated to passing out flyers in support of the local dog catcher campaign but here she is, front and center helping Hillary again

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 2:36 pm 
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Nas wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
long time guy wrote:
She didn't do a good job of answering pay for play Clinton Foundation.

She also didn't handle the Email either. That is going to be a stain but it's not a deal killer.


I do think that stuff is terrible, but nobody cares. At least nobody who isn't already voting for Trump. She's got all this horrible damning e-mail correspondence and her defense is that it was hacked by Russians. Think about that for a minute. She's not sorry about anything she has done or said, but only that she got caught. And she isn't even embarrassed. In fact, I have yet to see either Clinton embarrassed by anything. She is trying to blame Trump for the hacking somehow. It's really ridiculous.

What's the worst thing her horrible email correspondence revealed?


a lack of discretion, which is pretty big for a president (its pretty big for a SOS as well)

ineptitude with technology she uses every day (obviously this isn't a deal breaker for me)

either an unwillingness to listen to subordinates or surrounding herself with inept subordinates


I think 1 and 3 are big issues. Especially looking at how poorly her campaign was ran. I think #2 was said to keep her from possibly getting indicted.


I am completely floored that high level officials even using e-mail to discuss sensitive issues that may need deniability in the future. You would think the SOS would be like Paulie Cicero in Goodfellas in terms of communication.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 9:44 am 
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Krauthammer lays out all the issues with this fucked up election perfectly:

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/4 ... -candidate

The case against Hillary Clinton could have been written before the recent WikiLeaks and FBI disclosures. But these documents do provide hard textual backup.

The most sensational disclosure was the proposed deal between the State Department and the FBI in which the FBI would declassify a Hillary Clinton e-mail and State would give the FBI more slots in overseas stations. What made it sensational was the rare appearance in an official account of the phrase “quid pro quo,” which is the currently agreed-upon dividing line between acceptable and unacceptable corruption.

This is nonetheless an odd choice for most egregious offense. First, it occurred several layers removed from the campaign and from Clinton. It involved a career State Department official (he occupied the same position under Condoleezza Rice), covering not just for Clinton but for his own department.

Second, it’s not clear which side originally offered the bargain. Third, nothing tangible was supposed to exchange hands. There was no proposed personal enrichment — a Rolex in return for your soul — which tends to be our standard for punishable misconduct.

And finally, it never actually happened. The FBI turned down the declassification request.

In sum, a warm gun but non-smoking. Indeed, if the phrase “quid pro quo” hadn’t appeared, it would have received little attention. Moreover, it obscures the real scandal — the bottomless cynicism of the campaign and of the candidate.

Among dozens of examples, the Qatari gambit. Qatar, one of the worst actors in the Middle East (having financially supported the Islamic State, for example), offered $1 million as a “birthday” gift to Bill Clinton in return for five minutes of his time. Who offers — who takes — $200,000 a minute? We don’t know the “quid” here, but it’s got to be big.

In the final debate, Clinton ran and hid when asked about pay-for-play at the Clinton Foundation. And for good reason. The e-mails reveal how foundation donors were first in line for favors and contracts.

A governance review by an outside law firm reported that some donors “may have an expectation of quid pro quo benefits in return for gifts.” You need an outside law firm to tell you that? If your Sultanic heart bleeds for Haiti, why not give to Haiti directly? Because if you give through the Clintons, you have a claim on future favors.

The soullessness of this campaign — all ambition and entitlement — emerges almost poignantly in the e-mails, especially when aides keep asking what the campaign is about. In one largely overlooked passage, Clinton complains that her speechwriters have not given her any overall theme or rationale. Isn’t that the candidate’s job? Asked one of her aides, Joel Benenson: “Do we have any sense from her what she believes or wants her core message to be?”

It’s that emptiness at the core that makes every policy and position negotiable and politically calculable. Hence the embarrassing about-face on the Trans-Pacific Partnership after the popular winds swung decisively against free trade.

So too with financial regulation, as in Dodd-Frank. As she told a Goldman Sachs gathering, after the financial collapse there was “a need to do something because, for political reasons . . . you can’t sit idly by and do nothing.”

Giving the appearance that something had to be done. That’s not why Elizabeth Warren supported Dodd-Frank. Which is the difference between a conviction politician like Warren and a calculating machine like Clinton.

Of course, we knew all this. But we hadn’t seen it so clearly laid out. Illicit and illegal as is WikiLeaks, it is the camera in the sausage factory. And what it reveals is surpassingly unpretty.

I didn’t need the Wiki files to oppose Hillary Clinton. As a conservative, I have long disagreed with her worldview and the policies that flow from it. As for character, I have watched her long enough to find her deeply flawed, to the point of unfitness. But for those heretofore unpersuaded, the recent disclosures should close the case.

A case so strong that, against any of a dozen possible GOP candidates, voting for her opponent would be a no-brainer. Against Donald Trump, however, it’s a dilemma. I will not vote for Hillary Clinton. But, as I’ve explained in these columns, I could never vote for Donald Trump.

The only question is whose name I’m going to write in. With Albert Schweitzer doubly unavailable (noncitizen, dead), I’m down to Paul Ryan or Ben Sasse. Two weeks to decide.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 11:00 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Krauthammer


That's enough for me right there. I cannot in good conscience read the rest. Chief apologist and leading pundit/prosecutor for Cheney including but not limited to the classified Energy panel, aggravated assault/ shooting coverup issues, 22MM missing emails & patriotism czar/media monitor in the run up to the invasion of Iraq.

He's the guy who continually argues that you can't trust the testimony of MANY, unless they share your same ideological bent. He's the conservative town crier/liar, 2000's edition.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 11:05 am 
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Lays out all the issues? He just attacked Hillary.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 11:14 am 
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Quote:
The soullessness of this campaign — all ambition and entitlement — emerges almost poignantly in the e-mails, especially when aides keep asking what the campaign is about. In one largely overlooked passage, Clinton complains that her speechwriters have not given her any overall theme or rationale. Isn’t that the candidate’s job? Asked one of her aides, Joel Benenson: “Do we have any sense from her what she believes or wants her core message to be?”

It’s that emptiness at the core that makes every policy and position negotiable and politically calculable.

The essence, as they say. Emptiness at the core.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:48 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Lays out all the issues? He just attacked Hillary.


He's written many columns about Trump's unfitness for office. He's not going to vote for Trump. Ever. The problem is that we are going to be stuck with Hillary as president.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:51 pm 
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Regular Reader wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Krauthammer


That's enough for me right there. I cannot in good conscience read the rest. Chief apologist and leading pundit/prosecutor for Cheney including but not limited to the classified Energy panel, aggravated assault/ shooting coverup issues, 22MM missing emails & patriotism czar/media monitor in the run up to the invasion of Iraq.

He's the guy who continually argues that you can't trust the testimony of MANY, unless they share your same ideological bent. He's the conservative town crier/liar, 2000's edition.


He's a true conservative. You may disagree with him politically, but he's not some partisan goofball. I've read him taking Republicans to task on many occasions.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 1:49 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Krauthammer


That's enough for me right there. I cannot in good conscience read the rest. Chief apologist and leading pundit/prosecutor for Cheney including but not limited to the classified Energy panel, aggravated assault/ shooting coverup issues, 22MM missing emails & patriotism czar/media monitor in the run up to the invasion of Iraq.

He's the guy who continually argues that you can't trust the testimony of MANY, unless they share your same ideological bent. He's the conservative town crier/liar, 2000's edition.


He's a true conservative. You may disagree with him politically, but he's not some partisan goofball. I've read him taking Republicans to task on many occasions.


Yeah, when the prevailing repub opinion is blowing like a hurricane.

I just think he's almost completely 'intellectually' dishonest, like many of his CATO/Heritage Foundation companions

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 1:56 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Krauthammer


That's enough for me right there. I cannot in good conscience read the rest. Chief apologist and leading pundit/prosecutor for Cheney including but not limited to the classified Energy panel, aggravated assault/ shooting coverup issues, 22MM missing emails & patriotism czar/media monitor in the run up to the invasion of Iraq.

He's the guy who continually argues that you can't trust the testimony of MANY, unless they share your same ideological bent. He's the conservative town crier/liar, 2000's edition.


He's a true conservative. You may disagree with him politically, but he's not some partisan goofball. I've read him taking Republicans to task on many occasions.


I heard him make enough excuses for the W administration to know that he isn't a true conservative.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 3:31 pm 
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Regular Reader wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Krauthammer


That's enough for me right there. I cannot in good conscience read the rest. Chief apologist and leading pundit/prosecutor for Cheney including but not limited to the classified Energy panel, aggravated assault/ shooting coverup issues, 22MM missing emails & patriotism czar/media monitor in the run up to the invasion of Iraq.

He's the guy who continually argues that you can't trust the testimony of MANY, unless they share your same ideological bent. He's the conservative town crier/liar, 2000's edition.


He's a true conservative. You may disagree with him politically, but he's not some partisan goofball. I've read him taking Republicans to task on many occasions.


Yeah, when the prevailing repub opinion is blowing like a hurricane.

I just think he's almost completely 'intellectually' dishonest, like many of his CATO/Heritage Foundation companions


He seems to be seen as a neocon spokesman, but I don't really believe he is. He was certainly pro-Iraq invasion but not in a strong dogmatic way. I remember him laying out the case against it too. Everyone seems to forget that there was fairly strong consensus in favor of invasion. It was supported by middle of the road Democrats like Clinton and Kerry. It's not like it was some wacky military adventure dreamed up by Cheney and Rumsfeld.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 4:03 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Krauthammer


That's enough for me right there. I cannot in good conscience read the rest. Chief apologist and leading pundit/prosecutor for Cheney including but not limited to the classified Energy panel, aggravated assault/ shooting coverup issues, 22MM missing emails & patriotism czar/media monitor in the run up to the invasion of Iraq.

He's the guy who continually argues that you can't trust the testimony of MANY, unless they share your same ideological bent. He's the conservative town crier/liar, 2000's edition.


He's a true conservative. You may disagree with him politically, but he's not some partisan goofball. I've read him taking Republicans to task on many occasions.


Yeah, when the prevailing repub opinion is blowing like a hurricane.

I just think he's almost completely 'intellectually' dishonest, like many of his CATO/Heritage Foundation companions


He seems to be seen as a neocon spokesman, but I don't really believe he is. He was certainly pro-Iraq invasion but not in a strong dogmatic way. I remember him laying out the case against it too. Everyone seems to forget that there was fairly strong consensus in favor of invasion. It was supported by middle of the road Democrats like Clinton and Kerry. It's not like it was some wacky military adventure dreamed up by Cheney and Rumsfeld.

I don't necessarily agree with that. The middle of the road dems supported the invasion out of cowardice. They feared being labeled as unpatriotic during a period where that was viewed as the worst thing you could call a politician. I believe many (including Hillary) felt it was the wrong thing to do but weren't willing to take a moral stand.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 4:07 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

He seems to be seen as a neocon spokesman, but I don't really believe he is. He was certainly pro-Iraq invasion but not in a strong dogmatic way. I remember him laying out the case against it too. Everyone seems to forget that there was fairly strong consensus in favor of invasion. It was supported by middle of the road Democrats like Clinton and Kerry. It's not like it was some wacky military adventure dreamed up by Cheney and Rumsfeld.


Actually, this sums it up perfectly. And they used Colin Powell to sell it.

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