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Who Is The Worst Poster On This Message Board?
Baby McNown 22%  22%  [ 25 ]
chaspoppcap 3%  3%  [ 3 ]
Frank Coztansa 7%  7%  [ 8 ]
Long Time Guy 13%  13%  [ 15 ]
Juice's Lecture Notes 16%  16%  [ 18 ]
Terry's Peeps 1%  1%  [ 1 ]
Boilmaker Rick 3%  3%  [ 3 ]
Beardown 2%  2%  [ 2 ]
Seacrest 3%  3%  [ 3 ]
sinicalypse 8%  8%  [ 9 ]
Elmhurst Steve 4%  4%  [ 5 ]
Spanky 1%  1%  [ 1 ]
IMU 7%  7%  [ 8 ]
Panther pislA 2%  2%  [ 2 ]
America 9%  9%  [ 10 ]
Total votes : 113
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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 9:21 am 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Come on.


It's the politicization of history. Most white people were struggling through extreme poverty for the majority of this country's history. I know you believe in this Disney view of history where white people were evil snobs living off the labor of noble black people, who just needed a chance to succeed, but we have largely a shared history in this country. There was a very small rich class, but the vast majority of people were toiling in the fields and factories struggling to make ends meet. So we need to stop with this notion that we are so different, and our experiences can never be compared.

My grandfather worked in steel mills in northwest Indiana along with black workers. I can't imagine their lives were terribly different. Who do you think had a better standard of living: a black person here in Chicago in the 40s or people living in Europe living through war, famine and then, for many millions, Soviet rule.

We are playing into the worst of extremes by pushing out this notion of permanent white guilt and black disadvantage. We had a terrible racist system in place for years, but we have taken steps to remedy it. And there are systems in place to fight racism. Racism again blacks was a terrible part of our history, but it was hardly the only atrocity carried carried out against the working class here in the United States. To only focus on racism as we tend to do in our culture is divisive.

Recently I met with a laborer from Ukraine who fled because of the war there, and he was saving up to send money back to bring his family over working 12 hours days doing home upgrades. White privilege indeed.


I'd disagree with your constant citing of things here being in the past tense. Especially with the last 50 years of a Southern Strategy culminating with this President and his advisers/team restoking the worst among us at every opportunity,

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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 9:27 am 
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Regular Reader wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Come on.


It's the politicization of history. Most white people were struggling through extreme poverty for the majority of this country's history. I know you believe in this Disney view of history where white people were evil snobs living off the labor of noble black people, who just needed a chance to succeed, but we have largely a shared history in this country. There was a very small rich class, but the vast majority of people were toiling in the fields and factories struggling to make ends meet. So we need to stop with this notion that we are so different, and our experiences can never be compared.

My grandfather worked in steel mills in northwest Indiana along with black workers. I can't imagine their lives were terribly different. Who do you think had a better standard of living: a black person here in Chicago in the 40s or people living in Europe living through war, famine and then, for many millions, Soviet rule.

We are playing into the worst of extremes by pushing out this notion of permanent white guilt and black disadvantage. We had a terrible racist system in place for years, but we have taken steps to remedy it. And there are systems in place to fight racism. Racism again blacks was a terrible part of our history, but it was hardly the only atrocity carried carried out against the working class here in the United States. To only focus on racism as we tend to do in our culture is divisive.

Recently I met with a laborer from Ukraine who fled because of the war there, and he was saving up to send money back to bring his family over working 12 hours days doing home upgrades. White privilege indeed.


I'd disagree with your constant citing of things here being in the past tense. Especially with the last 50 years of a Southern Strategy culminating with this President and his advisers/team restoking the worst among us at every opportunity,


How has Trump actually changed your day-to-day life? And what does "restoking the worst among us at every opportunity" mean?

If whites are holding back other races why do Asians now make more on average than whites here in America? There is quite a long history of discrimination against them as well here in America.

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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 9:33 am 
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I am also curious to hear how Trump has negatively impacted people's lives since the mere mention of him incites statements that sound like he is Hitler.

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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 9:37 am 
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leashyourkids wrote:
I am also curious to hear how Trump has negatively impacted people's lives since the mere mention of him incites statements that sound like he is Hitler.
For me, it's made this message board nearly unreadable on certain days. I realize that is a minor thing overall, but this board became highly political with the Trump Clinton election and has only gotten worse.

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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 9:38 am 
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Regarding the last few posts I am curious as well as to the thoughts and how they are based. The impression is Trump is racist and things are worse now than ever.

I am not going to get into a debate between Ruffcorn and my guy RR but how this be measured in some way for a more valuable conversation?

Is the USA in 2018 a perfect racial situation? No. Is Trump worse for race than Obama? Yes. Are race situations in general better now than 1950? Yes. If most can agree on those points then how can the level at which we talk today be right?

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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 9:39 am 
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how on earth has trump been worse for race relations than Obama? we went from the precipice of racial harmony to people literally in the streets.


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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 9:42 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
long time guy wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:

Media, academia and the bureaucracy seem to all be in agreement with the general principle that being white is bad and that being a white man is doubly bad (unless you are carrying extreme amounts of white guilt regarding events that happened literally centuries ago). It is absolutely obvious. To deny it is like denying the existence of the moon. You know its on a dark path when the saying "its OK to be white" is considered hate speech. Look back throughout history and once the rhetoric takes this tone its extremely rare for it to not accelerate and become extreme. Leash has a fucking kid, a kid I assume is white, how the fuck do you expect a guy to react to this shit?

White kids will be fine. They just aren't being born with as big of a head start as we were.


When was it when white guys had a head start? When they were being shipped off to fight in Vietnam, Korea or Japan? Most white people aren’t yachting on the weekends.


Okay... I know we like to go back and forth but you've got to go sit in the back of the class 'cause you just suggested that white guys haven't had a head start in America for about 200 years.


I see WF's point, but I'll assume based on his other posts that I won't agree with him entirely.

There are a variety of structural "disadvantages" that don't depend on race. Someone's whiteness doesn't necessarily matter if that person is born into a broken home, and/or is raised by uneducated caregivers, is exposed to violent crime throughout their formative years, is unable to benefit from services/programs/activities that more affluent peers have access to, etc. These types of things can afflict anyone regardless of race, and if you're one of these people then you definitely don't get a "head start" in life compared to peers who are born into two-parent homes, who do have a strong support system growing up, who are raised/influenced by educated caregivers, who do have access to extracurricular activities, etc.

That being said, it's obvious that race does matter of course, and this is where someone like Bernie Sanders got into trouble when he was running. It obviously sucks for anyone to be born into poverty and/or broken homes/communities, but I think it's still fair to say that the misery is compounded when you're black and born into those conditions. I wouldn't say that an underprivileged white person has a "head start" over an underprivileged black person (a black kid from an affluent/decently well-off family would have the "head start" over an underprivileged white kid), but many African Americans have to endure other difficulties/hurdles that are strictly race-based on top of other socioeconomic challenges they may be facing alongside underprivileged white communities, and this is what makes their case unique. The problem is when we try to organize everything into neat circles (all white people have head starts over black people, etc.) when the reality is much more nuanced.



I will attempt to illustrate what a "headstart" happens to be and how it functions. I will provide but one example of ehat it looks like.

Since 1995 here are the list of CPS "CEOs"

1. Paul Vallas
2. Arne Duncan
3. Ron Huberman
4. Terry Mizany
5. Barbara Byrd Bennett
6. Brizard
7. Forrest Claypool
8. Janice Jackson.

Notice a pattern? I sure do. All of the whites on the list were essentially political hires. Not one of them had any connection to education. Each of the Whites sans Claypool used CPS as a springboard to bigger and better things. Duncan and Huberman were young guys who up until that point had never been all that successful at anything. They also all came straight from City Hall.

If you want to know what a "headstart" looks like that's it. You can probably look at other sectors and you'd find the same thing.


I'd debate your example but I think your point is good and I'd hate for it to be lost in some foolishness.[/quote]

Yep. Each of the blacks that were appointed worked their way up through traditional educational ranks prior to being appointed. Each of the white CEO's had no previous experience in education prior to being appointed. This is what a "headstart" looks like for those that claim to be unaware of it.

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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 9:44 am 
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America wrote:
how on earth has trump been worse for race relations than Obama? we went from the precipice of racial harmony to people literally in the streets.
People were in the streets with Obama too. Keep in mind who was President during the Ferguson and Baltimore riots/upheaval.

There is no question that the people in the streets are covered differently by the media today than they were five years ago.

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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 9:45 am 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Come on.


It's the politicization of history. Most white people were struggling through extreme poverty for the majority of this country's history. I know you believe in this Disney view of history where white people were evil snobs living off the labor of noble black people, who just needed a chance to succeed, but we have largely a shared history in this country. There was a very small rich class, but the vast majority of people were toiling in the fields and factories struggling to make ends meet. So we need to stop with this notion that we are so different, and our experiences can never be compared.

My grandfather worked in steel mills in northwest Indiana along with black workers. I can't imagine their lives were terribly different. Who do you think had a better standard of living: a black person here in Chicago in the 40s or people living in Europe living through war, famine and then, for many millions, Soviet rule.

We are playing into the worst of extremes by pushing out this notion of permanent white guilt and black disadvantage. We had a terrible racist system in place for years, but we have taken steps to remedy it. And there are systems in place to fight racism. Racism again blacks was a terrible part of our history, but it was hardly the only atrocity carried carried out against the working class here in the United States. To only focus on racism as we tend to do in our culture is divisive.

Recently I met with a laborer from Ukraine who fled because of the war there, and he was saving up to send money back to bring his family over working 12 hours days doing home upgrades. White privilege indeed.
That's insane. That terrible racist system was still alive and well in the 1940s. Segregation and other civil rights were still 20 years away and even those didn't immediately solve all the issues. Even now there are still pretty much economic advantages to the average white baby who is born. No one is saying that there aren't white people who have it tough too. It's just that in general white people have had a much easier path to success in this country. I mean, most of our parents lived in a time when segregation was still allowed and prevalent. I'm guessing some posters here did too. How can you pretend that white people didn't have a head start during those times?

It doesn't mean you are personally responsible for it, though your constant posts of denial about literally every potential social inequality isn't helping.

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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 9:45 am 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Come on.


It's the politicization of history. Most white people were struggling through extreme poverty for the majority of this country's history. I know you believe in this Disney view of history where white people were evil snobs living off the labor of noble black people, who just needed a chance to succeed, but we have largely a shared history in this country. There was a very small rich class, but the vast majority of people were toiling in the fields and factories struggling to make ends meet. So we need to stop with this notion that we are so different, and our experiences can never be compared.

My grandfather worked in steel mills in northwest Indiana along with black workers. I can't imagine their lives were terribly different. Who do you think had a better standard of living: a black person here in Chicago in the 40s or people living in Europe living through war, famine and then, for many millions, Soviet rule.

We are playing into the worst of extremes by pushing out this notion of permanent white guilt and black disadvantage. We had a terrible racist system in place for years, but we have taken steps to remedy it. And there are systems in place to fight racism. Racism again blacks was a terrible part of our history, but it was hardly the only atrocity carried carried out against the working class here in the United States. To only focus on racism as we tend to do in our culture is divisive.

Recently I met with a laborer from Ukraine who fled because of the war there, and he was saving up to send money back to bring his family over working 12 hours days doing home upgrades. White privilege indeed.


I'd disagree with your constant citing of things here being in the past tense. Especially with the last 50 years of a Southern Strategy culminating with this President and his advisers/team restoking the worst among us at every opportunity,


How has Trump actually changed your day-to-day life? He & his bunch have generated feelings of fear if not impending doom. Whether it's the idiotic tax cuts that are hamstringing this country, the warmongering and cover he's providing for the worst among us to let their flags fly disturbs me to no end, especially as a parent. Now you can take issue with that, as is your prerogative, but in my line of work, I'm also seeing more and more brazen instances of redlining, questionable lending practices and peculiar business practices that directly impact me especially since last year.

And what does "restoking the worst among us at every opportunity" mean? This question implies a level of innocence in you which I don't wish to extend. That you feel the need to facetiously ask it is telling imo.

If whites are holding back other races why do Asians now make more on average than whites here in America? There is quite a long history of discrimination against them as well here in America. See above, unfortunately

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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 9:57 am 
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pittmike wrote:
Is the USA in 2018 a perfect racial situation? No. Is Trump worse for race than Obama? Yes. Are race situations in general better now than 1950? Yes. If most can agree on those points then how can the level at which we talk today be right?


When you spend your adult lifetime being demonized by an entire party, then have that group claim that because things are ostensibly "better", not good, mind you but "better"(for your group), you're not going to have an honest discussion, when "better" is not good, nor enough. It's peculiar to me that the only acceptable meme of the fearful voter is the one that voted for Trump & the House republicans, the voters that want to take the country back to 1953.

And when the same people are the same ones crying that things aren't "fair" for their side, and are saying that it's only for the side that is getting along "better", I see nothing more than crocodile tears.

The word "fair" has no objective meaning.

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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 10:02 am 
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Regular Reader wrote:
pittmike wrote:
Is the USA in 2018 a perfect racial situation? No. Is Trump worse for race than Obama? Yes. Are race situations in general better now than 1950? Yes. If most can agree on those points then how can the level at which we talk today be right?


When you spend your adult lifetime being demonized by an entire party, then have that group claim that because things are ostensibly "better", not good, mind you but "better"(for your group), you're not going to have an honest discussion, when "better" is not good, nor enough. It's peculiar to me that the only acceptable meme of the fearful voter is the one that voted for Trump & the House republicans, the voters that want to take the country back to 1953.

And when the same people are the same ones crying that things aren't "fair" for their side, and are saying that it's only for the side that is getting along "better", I see nothing more than crocodile tears.

The word "fair" has no objective meaning.


Probably the best response from me is that even though I can try I really can't appreciate the full situation not being a part of it.

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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 10:08 am 
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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 10:13 am 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
My grandfather worked in steel mills in northwest Indiana along with black workers. I can't imagine their lives were terribly different. Who do you think had a better standard of living: a black person here in Chicago in the 40s or people living in Europe living through war, famine and then, for many millions, Soviet rule.


Since you want to get anecdotal, my grandfather worked in the pits of the stockyards because the companies wouldn't allow Blacks above certain levels and had little access to many other jobs in the industries that built this city because there were strict union (& general hiring) rules on the number of black involvement/admission into their ranks. My own parents(like many others) were forbidden from admission to most colleges in this country based solely on race. Hell, I and several of my classmates told that employment with the Democratic controlled Cook County State's Attorney's office wasn't really feasible because we, as black lifelong Chicago residents, didn't understand the inner workings, issues and demands of their office. Which became more painfully funny as the historical misdeeds of that office came more to light in the 1990's.

I can go on and on, without getting to tired, irrelevant comparisons of life under Soviet rule.

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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 10:17 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Come on.


It's the politicization of history. Most white people were struggling through extreme poverty for the majority of this country's history. I know you believe in this Disney view of history where white people were evil snobs living off the labor of noble black people, who just needed a chance to succeed, but we have largely a shared history in this country. There was a very small rich class, but the vast majority of people were toiling in the fields and factories struggling to make ends meet. So we need to stop with this notion that we are so different, and our experiences can never be compared.

My grandfather worked in steel mills in northwest Indiana along with black workers. I can't imagine their lives were terribly different. Who do you think had a better standard of living: a black person here in Chicago in the 40s or people living in Europe living through war, famine and then, for many millions, Soviet rule.

We are playing into the worst of extremes by pushing out this notion of permanent white guilt and black disadvantage. We had a terrible racist system in place for years, but we have taken steps to remedy it. And there are systems in place to fight racism. Racism again blacks was a terrible part of our history, but it was hardly the only atrocity carried carried out against the working class here in the United States. To only focus on racism as we tend to do in our culture is divisive.

Recently I met with a laborer from Ukraine who fled because of the war there, and he was saving up to send money back to bring his family over working 12 hours days doing home upgrades. White privilege indeed.
That's insane. That terrible racist system was still alive and well in the 1940s. Segregation and other civil rights were still 20 years away and even those didn't immediately solve all the issues. Even now there are still pretty much economic advantages to the average white baby who is born. No one is saying that there aren't white people who have it tough too. It's just that in general white people have had a much easier path to success in this country. I mean, most of our parents lived in a time when segregation was still allowed and prevalent. I'm guessing some posters here did too. How can you pretend that white people didn't have a head start during those times?

It doesn't mean you are personally responsible for it, though your constant posts of denial about literally every potential social inequality isn't helping.


You answered literally nothing. And instead went for the pearl clutching- posting on this board is somehow oppressing people and injuring race relations? Come on.

You think that black people here in Chicago in the 40s had it worse than people living in Europe? You do realize what was happening in Europe in the 1940s?

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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 10:19 am 
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Regular Reader wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
My grandfather worked in steel mills in northwest Indiana along with black workers. I can't imagine their lives were terribly different. Who do you think had a better standard of living: a black person here in Chicago in the 40s or people living in Europe living through war, famine and then, for many millions, Soviet rule.


Since you want to get anecdotal, my grandfather worked in the pits of the stockyards because the companies wouldn't allow Blacks above certain levels and had little access to many other jobs in the industries that built this city because there were strict union (& general hiring) rules on the number of black involvement/admission into their ranks. My own parents(like many others) were forbidden from admission to most colleges in this country based solely on race. Hell, I and several of my classmates told that employment with the Democratic controlled Cook County State's Attorney's office wasn't really feasible because we, as black lifelong Chicago residents, didn't understand the inner workings, issues and demands of their office. Which became more painfully funny as the historical misdeeds of that office came more to light in the 1990's.

I can go on and on, without getting to tired, irrelevant comparisons of life under Soviet rule.



The Equivalency game really knows no ends.

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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 10:21 am 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Come on.


It's the politicization of history. Most white people were struggling through extreme poverty for the majority of this country's history. I know you believe in this Disney view of history where white people were evil snobs living off the labor of noble black people, who just needed a chance to succeed, but we have largely a shared history in this country. There was a very small rich class, but the vast majority of people were toiling in the fields and factories struggling to make ends meet. So we need to stop with this notion that we are so different, and our experiences can never be compared.

My grandfather worked in steel mills in northwest Indiana along with black workers. I can't imagine their lives were terribly different. Who do you think had a better standard of living: a black person here in Chicago in the 40s or people living in Europe living through war, famine and then, for many millions, Soviet rule.

We are playing into the worst of extremes by pushing out this notion of permanent white guilt and black disadvantage. We had a terrible racist system in place for years, but we have taken steps to remedy it. And there are systems in place to fight racism. Racism again blacks was a terrible part of our history, but it was hardly the only atrocity carried carried out against the working class here in the United States. To only focus on racism as we tend to do in our culture is divisive.

Recently I met with a laborer from Ukraine who fled because of the war there, and he was saving up to send money back to bring his family over working 12 hours days doing home upgrades. White privilege indeed.
That's insane. That terrible racist system was still alive and well in the 1940s. Segregation and other civil rights were still 20 years away and even those didn't immediately solve all the issues. Even now there are still pretty much economic advantages to the average white baby who is born. No one is saying that there aren't white people who have it tough too. It's just that in general white people have had a much easier path to success in this country. I mean, most of our parents lived in a time when segregation was still allowed and prevalent. I'm guessing some posters here did too. How can you pretend that white people didn't have a head start during those times?

It doesn't mean you are personally responsible for it, though your constant posts of denial about literally every potential social inequality isn't helping.


You answered literally nothing. And instead went for the pearl clutching- posting on this board is somehow oppressing people and injuring race relations? Come on.

You think that black people here in Chicago in the 40s had it worse than people living in Europe? You do realize what was happening in Europe in the 1940s?

I never said no one had it worse. I said white people were born with a head start here and while better than it was that is still true today. I tried to be nice and just ignore your stupid point about 1940s Europe.

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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 10:24 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Come on.


It's the politicization of history. Most white people were struggling through extreme poverty for the majority of this country's history. I know you believe in this Disney view of history where white people were evil snobs living off the labor of noble black people, who just needed a chance to succeed, but we have largely a shared history in this country. There was a very small rich class, but the vast majority of people were toiling in the fields and factories struggling to make ends meet. So we need to stop with this notion that we are so different, and our experiences can never be compared.

My grandfather worked in steel mills in northwest Indiana along with black workers. I can't imagine their lives were terribly different. Who do you think had a better standard of living: a black person here in Chicago in the 40s or people living in Europe living through war, famine and then, for many millions, Soviet rule.

We are playing into the worst of extremes by pushing out this notion of permanent white guilt and black disadvantage. We had a terrible racist system in place for years, but we have taken steps to remedy it. And there are systems in place to fight racism. Racism again blacks was a terrible part of our history, but it was hardly the only atrocity carried carried out against the working class here in the United States. To only focus on racism as we tend to do in our culture is divisive.

Recently I met with a laborer from Ukraine who fled because of the war there, and he was saving up to send money back to bring his family over working 12 hours days doing home upgrades. White privilege indeed.
That's insane. That terrible racist system was still alive and well in the 1940s. Segregation and other civil rights were still 20 years away and even those didn't immediately solve all the issues. Even now there are still pretty much economic advantages to the average white baby who is born. No one is saying that there aren't white people who have it tough too. It's just that in general white people have had a much easier path to success in this country. I mean, most of our parents lived in a time when segregation was still allowed and prevalent. I'm guessing some posters here did too. How can you pretend that white people didn't have a head start during those times?

It doesn't mean you are personally responsible for it, though your constant posts of denial about literally every potential social inequality isn't helping.


You answered literally nothing. And instead went for the pearl clutching- posting on this board is somehow oppressing people and injuring race relations? Come on.

You think that black people here in Chicago in the 40s had it worse than people living in Europe? You do realize what was happening in Europe in the 1940s?

I never said no one had it worse. I said white people were born with a head start here and while better than it was that is still true today. I tried to be nice and just ignore your stupid point about 1940s Europe.

Tell this to someone in West Virginia

I won't deny that this is true for some, but such broad generalizations are idiotic

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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 10:25 am 
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Regular Reader wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
My grandfather worked in steel mills in northwest Indiana along with black workers. I can't imagine their lives were terribly different. Who do you think had a better standard of living: a black person here in Chicago in the 40s or people living in Europe living through war, famine and then, for many millions, Soviet rule.


Since you want to get anecdotal, my grandfather worked in the pits of the stockyards because the companies wouldn't allow Blacks above certain levels and had little access to many other jobs in the industries that built this city because there were strict union (& general hiring) rules on the number of black involvement/admission into their ranks. My own parents(like many others) were forbidden from admission to most colleges in this country based solely on race. Hell, I and several of my classmates told that employment with the Democratic controlled Cook County State's Attorney's office wasn't really feasible because we, as black lifelong Chicago residents, didn't understand the inner workings, issues and demands of their office. Which became more painfully funny as the historical misdeeds of that office came more to light in the 1990's.

I can go on and on, without getting to tired, irrelevant comparisons of life under Soviet rule.


As I said my grandfather was a laborer his entire life. Who do you think he had more in common with your grandfather or the Kennedys?

I've never denied that racism was a terrible stain on this country, but why do we want to continue to insist that the only suffering in this country was due to racism and that our experiences are not comparable. It's divisive at best to say all white people have this incredible privilege, and it's putting people into camps along lines that people Richard Spencer would prefer.

There is nothing to be gained by pushing guilt on people for a past they had nothing to do with.

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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 10:26 am 
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The Dems are at least equal opportunity. They have screwed all of us.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opin ... story.html


Funny that the letter was from a guy living in a suburb grown exponentially from white flight, and one where the Lipinskis and others like them have held political sway for decades enriching primarily themselves. Or that the letter clearly points out how people are leaving certain states in massive numbers for places like Arizona, where you are having statewide teachers' strikes. Or the "New South" where hundreds of millions of dollars in state budgeting has been cut from public education and health programs to pay for corporate tax cuts and giveaways to the only group(Major multinationals) that has been doing as well as the ultra wealthy in this country since the 1980's.

I sincerely hope I live long enough to see all of those states consumed in the same financial flames as the rust belt states are in now. They're certainly using public policy and spending in a similar myopic, fiscally irresponsible fashion.

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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 10:27 am 
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My grandfather was raised in a home with a dirt floor in Gary to parents who had nothing after having escaped from the 1905 pogroms in Russia. Tell me, how privileged was he? I was told that my great-grandmother never could watch Fiddler on the Roof in her old age as it was too much like her childhood in the Shtetl.

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Last edited by Ogie Oglethorpe on Mon May 07, 2018 10:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 10:27 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
I said white people were born with a head start here.


That's not true. Race as a category won't capture all the difficulties we're speaking about here. You can grow up white and be disadvantaged in a white dominant society.

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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 10:28 am 
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long time guy wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
My grandfather worked in steel mills in northwest Indiana along with black workers. I can't imagine their lives were terribly different. Who do you think had a better standard of living: a black person here in Chicago in the 40s or people living in Europe living through war, famine and then, for many millions, Soviet rule.


Since you want to get anecdotal, my grandfather worked in the pits of the stockyards because the companies wouldn't allow Blacks above certain levels and had little access to many other jobs in the industries that built this city because there were strict union (& general hiring) rules on the number of black involvement/admission into their ranks. My own parents(like many others) were forbidden from admission to most colleges in this country based solely on race. Hell, I and several of my classmates told that employment with the Democratic controlled Cook County State's Attorney's office wasn't really feasible because we, as black lifelong Chicago residents, didn't understand the inner workings, issues and demands of their office. Which became more painfully funny as the historical misdeeds of that office came more to light in the 1990's.

I can go on and on, without getting to tired, irrelevant comparisons of life under Soviet rule.



The Equivalency game really knows no ends.


Only your suffering matters. Your people suffered worse. There can never be common ground.

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Why are only 14 percent of black CPS 11th-graders proficient in English?

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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 10:28 am 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
My grandfather was raised in a home with a dirt floor in Gary to parents who had nothing after having escaped from the 1905 pogroms in Russia. Tell me, how privileged was he? I was told that my great-grandmother never could watch Fiddler on the Roof in her old age as it was too much like her childhood in the Shtetl.

Compared to someone living under segregation he was.

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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 10:30 am 
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Regular Reader wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
The Dems are at least equal opportunity. They have screwed all of us.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opin ... story.html


Funny that the letter was from a guy living in a suburb grown exponentially from white flight, and one where the Lipinskis and others like them have held political sway for decades enriching primarily themselves. Or that the letter clearly points out how people are leaving certain states in massive numbers for places like Arizona, where you are having statewide teachers' strikes. Or the "New South" where hundreds of millions of dollars in state budgeting has been cut from public education and health programs to pay for corporate tax cuts and giveaways to the only group(Major multinationals) that has been doing as well as the ultra wealthy in this country since the 1980's.

I sincerely hope I live long enough to see all of those states consumed in the same financial flames as the rust belt states are in now. They're certainly using public policy and spending in a similar myopic, fiscally irresponsible fashion.



RR,

You never do your cause justice or any favors when you defend a party that has put the state in poverty, allege all Republicans are evil, or conveniently make excuses for a $10 T debt that was run up in this country between 2008 and 2016.

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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 10:30 am 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
I said white people were born with a head start here.


That's not true. Race as a category won't capture all the difficulties we're speaking about here. You can grow up white and be disadvantaged in a white dominant society.

Of course. There are kids of millionaires that end up poor and homeless too. It doesn't mean they didn't have advantages.

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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 10:31 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
My grandfather was raised in a home with a dirt floor in Gary to parents who had nothing after having escaped from the 1905 pogroms in Russia. Tell me, how privileged was he? I was told that my great-grandmother never could watch Fiddler on the Roof in her old age as it was too much like her childhood in the Shtetl.

Compared to someone living under segregation he was.

As Jew in the early 20th century, was barred from most trades.

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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 10:32 am 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
My grandfather was raised in a home with a dirt floor in Gary to parents who had nothing after having escaped from the 1905 pogroms in Russia. Tell me, how privileged was he? I was told that my great-grandmother never could watch Fiddler on the Roof in her old age as it was too much like her childhood in the Shtetl.

Compared to someone living under segregation he was.

As Jew in the early 20th century, was barred from most trades.

Free market at work!

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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 10:34 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
My grandfather was raised in a home with a dirt floor in Gary to parents who had nothing after having escaped from the 1905 pogroms in Russia. Tell me, how privileged was he? I was told that my great-grandmother never could watch Fiddler on the Roof in her old age as it was too much like her childhood in the Shtetl.

Compared to someone living under segregation he was.

As Jew in the early 20th century, was barred from most trades.

Free market at work!

well he ended up starting his own building trade company and sold it for over a million dollars at retirement, all through his own entrepreneurial spirit. so yes, the free market was kind to him when he made the best of his situation. Perhaps that is why I'm such a believer in Capitalism.

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Last edited by Ogie Oglethorpe on Mon May 07, 2018 10:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 10:35 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Come on.


It's the politicization of history. Most white people were struggling through extreme poverty for the majority of this country's history. I know you believe in this Disney view of history where white people were evil snobs living off the labor of noble black people, who just needed a chance to succeed, but we have largely a shared history in this country. There was a very small rich class, but the vast majority of people were toiling in the fields and factories struggling to make ends meet. So we need to stop with this notion that we are so different, and our experiences can never be compared.

My grandfather worked in steel mills in northwest Indiana along with black workers. I can't imagine their lives were terribly different. Who do you think had a better standard of living: a black person here in Chicago in the 40s or people living in Europe living through war, famine and then, for many millions, Soviet rule.

We are playing into the worst of extremes by pushing out this notion of permanent white guilt and black disadvantage. We had a terrible racist system in place for years, but we have taken steps to remedy it. And there are systems in place to fight racism. Racism again blacks was a terrible part of our history, but it was hardly the only atrocity carried carried out against the working class here in the United States. To only focus on racism as we tend to do in our culture is divisive.

Recently I met with a laborer from Ukraine who fled because of the war there, and he was saving up to send money back to bring his family over working 12 hours days doing home upgrades. White privilege indeed.
That's insane. That terrible racist system was still alive and well in the 1940s. Segregation and other civil rights were still 20 years away and even those didn't immediately solve all the issues. Even now there are still pretty much economic advantages to the average white baby who is born. No one is saying that there aren't white people who have it tough too. It's just that in general white people have had a much easier path to success in this country. I mean, most of our parents lived in a time when segregation was still allowed and prevalent. I'm guessing some posters here did too. How can you pretend that white people didn't have a head start during those times?

It doesn't mean you are personally responsible for it, though your constant posts of denial about literally every potential social inequality isn't helping.


You answered literally nothing. And instead went for the pearl clutching- posting on this board is somehow oppressing people and injuring race relations? Come on.

You think that black people here in Chicago in the 40s had it worse than people living in Europe? You do realize what was happening in Europe in the 1940s?

I never said no one had it worse. I said white people were born with a head start here and while better than it was that is still true today. I tried to be nice and just ignore your stupid point about 1940s Europe.


Yeah. Great debate style. Europe is a stupid point! That's just dishonest and petty.

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