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Who Is The Worst Poster On This Message Board?
Baby McNown 22%  22%  [ 25 ]
chaspoppcap 3%  3%  [ 3 ]
Frank Coztansa 7%  7%  [ 8 ]
Long Time Guy 13%  13%  [ 15 ]
Juice's Lecture Notes 16%  16%  [ 18 ]
Terry's Peeps 1%  1%  [ 1 ]
Boilmaker Rick 3%  3%  [ 3 ]
Beardown 2%  2%  [ 2 ]
Seacrest 3%  3%  [ 3 ]
sinicalypse 8%  8%  [ 9 ]
Elmhurst Steve 4%  4%  [ 5 ]
Spanky 1%  1%  [ 1 ]
IMU 7%  7%  [ 8 ]
Panther pislA 2%  2%  [ 2 ]
America 9%  9%  [ 10 ]
Total votes : 113
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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 10:35 am 
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The Soviets would torture you into confessing to a simple crime, something bizarre like "having beliefs contrary to people's will", then ship you off the gulag for 10 years minimum sentence where you were worked to death. Happened to millions of people. Not an exaggeration, millions. They'd put your genitals in a vice after depriving you of water for 3 days. You'll agree to sign anything then. Read the Gulag Archipelago. That's what actual oppression looks like.

Not "well I was in law school and they said it might be more difficult for us to get certain jobs". Like lmao what fucking planet do you live on? If that's oppressed then you've got about 6 billion people on this world who would really like to get a taste of that oppression.


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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 10:36 am 
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Seacrest wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
The Dems are at least equal opportunity. They have screwed all of us.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opin ... story.html


Funny that the letter was from a guy living in a suburb grown exponentially from white flight, and one where the Lipinskis and others like them have held political sway for decades enriching primarily themselves. Or that the letter clearly points out how people are leaving certain states in massive numbers for places like Arizona, where you are having statewide teachers' strikes. Or the "New South" where hundreds of millions of dollars in state budgeting has been cut from public education and health programs to pay for corporate tax cuts and giveaways to the only group(Major multinationals) that has been doing as well as the ultra wealthy in this country since the 1980's.

I sincerely hope I live long enough to see all of those states consumed in the same financial flames as the rust belt states are in now. They're certainly using public policy and spending in a similar myopic, fiscally irresponsible fashion.



RR,

You never do your cause justice or any favors when you defend a party that has put the state in poverty, allege all Republicans are evil, or conveniently make excuses for a $10 T debt that was run up in this country between 2008 and 2016.


The argument he makes here is odd to me as it affect poor whites as well.

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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 10:36 am 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
My grandfather was raised in a home with a dirt floor in Gary to parents who had nothing after having escaped from the 1905 pogroms in Russia. Tell me, how privileged was he? I was told that my great-grandmother never could watch Fiddler on the Roof in her old age as it was too much like her childhood in the Shtetl.

Compared to someone living under segregation he was.

As Jew in the early 20th century, was barred from most trades.

Free market at work!

well he ended up starting his own building trade company and sold it for over a million dollars at retirement, all through his own entrepreneurial spirit. so yes, the free market was kind to him when he made the best of his situation. Perhaps that is why I'm such a believer in Capitalism.

That would have been a lot harder if he was living under segregation.

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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 10:37 am 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
As I said my grandfather was a laborer his entire life. Who do you think he had more in common with your grandfather or the Kennedys?

I've never denied that racism was a terrible stain on this country, but why do we want to continue to insist that the only suffering in this country was due to racism and that our experiences are not comparable. It's divisive at best to say all white people have this incredible privilege, and it's putting people into camps along lines that people Richard Spencer would prefer.

There is nothing to be gained by pushing guilt on people for a past they had nothing to do with.


Chances are that my grandfather couldn't safely live his peaceful, productive life in your grandfather's neighborhood. And that to many of his neighbors, that was just they way they wanted it. The reverse likely was not true and therefore many of the experiences are not in fact comparable. Hell, when my parents moved us onto our block, we were the second family of color. Within three years, there were only two non-black families on the block, and one of those had older kids who loved to throw rocks at kids barely into kindergarten. That is until other black families with older kids put a stop to it. And fwiw with one exception, those two families were oddly the only ones headed by non-professional fathers.

And what you see as pushing guilt, is from my perspective is promoting a more honest historical discussion. Which makes MANY uncomfortable.

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Last edited by Regular Reader on Mon May 07, 2018 10:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 10:37 am 
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One Post wrote:
America wrote:
I dont want to speak for anyone else directly, but I suspect what is happening to leash is exactly what happened to me.

Media, academia and the bureaucracy seem to all be in agreement with the general principle that being white is bad and that being a white man is doubly bad (unless you are carrying extreme amounts of white guilt regarding events that happened literally centuries ago). It is absolutely obvious. To deny it is like denying the existence of the moon. You know its on a dark path when the saying "its OK to be white" is considered hate speech. Look back throughout history and once the rhetoric takes this tone its extremely rare for it to not accelerate and become extreme. Leash has a fucking kid, a kid I assume is white, how the fuck do you expect a guy to react to this shit?


There is a large chasm between saying that being white is “bad” versus simply acknowledging that being a white person in America over the past 200 or so years has afforded a white person some advantages, many of them some of the ambiguous ideas mention d by others.

Median white household net worth - 170k, median black household net worth - 17k.
Rate of white home ownership - 71%, median white home ownership - 42%.
High school graduation rate for white students - 85%, graduation rates for black students - 70%.

It isn’t bad to be white, but it does come with advantages in 21st century America.

When the slogan "its ok to be white", which denotes nothing more than the fact that there is no inherent shame or evil built into being white, is considered hate speech by academia and the media that's graduating past simply "acknowledging privilege" or whatever nonsense. Its an obvious precursor to violent reprisals and worsening of the racial situation in the USA.


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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 10:38 am 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
My grandfather worked in steel mills in northwest Indiana along with black workers. I can't imagine their lives were terribly different. Who do you think had a better standard of living: a black person here in Chicago in the 40s or people living in Europe living through war, famine and then, for many millions, Soviet rule.


Since you want to get anecdotal, my grandfather worked in the pits of the stockyards because the companies wouldn't allow Blacks above certain levels and had little access to many other jobs in the industries that built this city because there were strict union (& general hiring) rules on the number of black involvement/admission into their ranks. My own parents(like many others) were forbidden from admission to most colleges in this country based solely on race. Hell, I and several of my classmates told that employment with the Democratic controlled Cook County State's Attorney's office wasn't really feasible because we, as black lifelong Chicago residents, didn't understand the inner workings, issues and demands of their office. Which became more painfully funny as the historical misdeeds of that office came more to light in the 1990's.

I can go on and on, without getting to tired, irrelevant comparisons of life under Soviet rule.



The Equivalency game really knows no ends.


Only your suffering matters. Your people suffered worse. There can never be common ground.



You aren't interested in common ground. You just demonstrated by attempting to make it seem as though your grandfather's situation was similar to that of African Americans from the same pd. Was your grandfather the victim of redlining? how about restrictive covenants? Was his home ever fire bombed? Were Housing Projects created as means of promoting segregation and poverty? Were laws created ostensibly to prevent him from achieving the American Dream? Were laws created specifically so that he could be imprisoned? Was he ever denied entry into any school because of his race or ethnicity?

Has he ever been enslaved? Has he ever been a victim of segregation? Has he or anyone that he knows ever been lynched? Have you or your anyone in your race or ethnicity ever been denied a job solely due to your race or ethnicity? Has "your" race ever had unemployment rates that are historically twice the national average? When people speak of Social capital is "your" race ever excluded from the conversation?

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Last edited by long time guy on Mon May 07, 2018 10:44 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 10:39 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
My grandfather was raised in a home with a dirt floor in Gary to parents who had nothing after having escaped from the 1905 pogroms in Russia. Tell me, how privileged was he? I was told that my great-grandmother never could watch Fiddler on the Roof in her old age as it was too much like her childhood in the Shtetl.

Compared to someone living under segregation he was.

As Jew in the early 20th century, was barred from most trades.

Free market at work!

well he ended up starting his own building trade company and sold it for over a million dollars at retirement, all through his own entrepreneurial spirit. so yes, the free market was kind to him when he made the best of his situation. Perhaps that is why I'm such a believer in Capitalism.

That would have been a lot harder if he was living under segregation.

I'd say what Jews in the first half of the 20th century lived under was a de-facto segregation.

While a work of fiction, Mad Men highlights this with the lack of Jews in the firm when the show picks up in 1960. This is something that was put in by Matthew Weiner because it was historically true and accurate. It was important enough to Mr. Weiner that he made sure to highlight this in the pilot episode.

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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 10:39 am 
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Are African-Americans the Jose Quintana of ethnic/racial groups?

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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 10:41 am 
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Regular Reader wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Come on.


It's the politicization of history. Most white people were struggling through extreme poverty for the majority of this country's history. I know you believe in this Disney view of history where white people were evil snobs living off the labor of noble black people, who just needed a chance to succeed, but we have largely a shared history in this country. There was a very small rich class, but the vast majority of people were toiling in the fields and factories struggling to make ends meet. So we need to stop with this notion that we are so different, and our experiences can never be compared.

My grandfather worked in steel mills in northwest Indiana along with black workers. I can't imagine their lives were terribly different. Who do you think had a better standard of living: a black person here in Chicago in the 40s or people living in Europe living through war, famine and then, for many millions, Soviet rule.

We are playing into the worst of extremes by pushing out this notion of permanent white guilt and black disadvantage. We had a terrible racist system in place for years, but we have taken steps to remedy it. And there are systems in place to fight racism. Racism again blacks was a terrible part of our history, but it was hardly the only atrocity carried carried out against the working class here in the United States. To only focus on racism as we tend to do in our culture is divisive.

Recently I met with a laborer from Ukraine who fled because of the war there, and he was saving up to send money back to bring his family over working 12 hours days doing home upgrades. White privilege indeed.


I'd disagree with your constant citing of things here being in the past tense. Especially with the last 50 years of a Southern Strategy culminating with this President and his advisers/team restoking the worst among us at every opportunity,


How has Trump actually changed your day-to-day life? He & his bunch have generated feelings of fear if not impending doom. Whether it's the idiotic tax cuts that are hamstringing this country, the warmongering and cover he's providing for the worst among us to let their flags fly disturbs me to no end, especially as a parent. Now you can take issue with that, as is your prerogative, but in my line of work, I'm also seeing more and more brazen instances of redlining, questionable lending practices and peculiar business practices that directly impact me especially since last year.

And what does "restoking the worst among us at every opportunity" mean? This question implies a level of innocence in you which I don't wish to extend. That you feel the need to facetiously ask it is telling imo.

If whites are holding back other races why do Asians now make more on average than whites here in America? There is quite a long history of discrimination against them as well here in America. See above, unfortunately



If you are seeing racist lending practices then it should be reported. I don't see how Trump can be blamed for that. His tax cuts were stupid, but I am not sure how they can be seen as racist.

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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 10:43 am 
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they built us free housing and didnt charge for utilities. it was horrible, you couldn't believe the oppression.


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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 10:45 am 
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long time guy wrote:


You aren't interested in common ground. You just demonstrated by attempting to make it seem as though your grandfather's was similar to that of African Americans from the same pd. Was your grandfather the victim of redlining? how about restrictive covenants? Was his home ever fire bombed? Were Housing Projects created as means of promoting segregation and poverty? Were laws created ostensibly to prevent him from achieving the American Dream? Were laws created specifically so that he could be imprisoned? Was he ever denied entry into any school because of his race or ethnicity?


How do you know what I'm interested in? Why do you assume the worst in people? As for my grandfather, most of his brothers died in German prison camps, after they went back to fight for Poland. And yeah, their homes there were firebombed there.

But that suffering doesn't matter because of redlining I guess. There is plenty of suffering in history.

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Why are only 14 percent of black CPS 11th-graders proficient in English?

The Missing Link wrote:
For instance they were never taught that Columbus was a slave owner.


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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 10:46 am 
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America wrote:
they built us free housing and didnt charge for utilities. it was horrible, you couldn't believe the oppression.


No such thing as "free housing" by the way.

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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 10:47 am 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
I'd say what Jews in the first half of the 20th century lived under was a de-facto segregation.

While a work of fiction, Mad Men highlights this with the lack of Jews in the firm when the show picks up in 1960. This is something that was put in by Matthew Weiner because it was historically true and accurate. It was important enough to Mr. Weiner that he made sure to highlight this in the pilot episode.
You are trying to change the discussion. I never said that anyone had it easy. Your grandfather had to work hard and it paid off with a million dollar business at the end at a time when that was a huge amount of money. My grandfather had to run from the Russians and start over here without speaking any English and did pretty well for himself though not as well as that.

None of that changes the fact that when we are talking about the average white person that they had a head start over most other non-whites. Segregation, and many other things that were in place were major roadblocks to success and that was the point. They have been lessened but not completely erased yet. That's the point.

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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 10:47 am 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
long time guy wrote:


You aren't interested in common ground. You just demonstrated by attempting to make it seem as though your grandfather's was similar to that of African Americans from the same pd. Was your grandfather the victim of redlining? how about restrictive covenants? Was his home ever fire bombed? Were Housing Projects created as means of promoting segregation and poverty? Were laws created ostensibly to prevent him from achieving the American Dream? Were laws created specifically so that he could be imprisoned? Was he ever denied entry into any school because of his race or ethnicity?


How do you know what I'm interested in? Why do you assume the worst in people? As for my grandfather, most of his brothers died in German prison camps, after they went back to fight for Poland. And yeah, their homes there were firebombed there.

But that suffering doesn't matter because of redlining I guess. There is plenty of suffering in history.



What does that have to do with the U.S.? funny how we are all nationalistic until we aren't I guess. 2ndly I inferred it from your own words.

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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 10:48 am 
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pittmike wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
The Dems are at least equal opportunity. They have screwed all of us.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opin ... story.html


Funny that the letter was from a guy living in a suburb grown exponentially from white flight, and one where the Lipinskis and others like them have held political sway for decades enriching primarily themselves. Or that the letter clearly points out how people are leaving certain states in massive numbers for places like Arizona, where you are having statewide teachers' strikes. Or the "New South" where hundreds of millions of dollars in state budgeting has been cut from public education and health programs to pay for corporate tax cuts and giveaways to the only group(Major multinationals) that has been doing as well as the ultra wealthy in this country since the 1980's.

I sincerely hope I live long enough to see all of those states consumed in the same financial flames as the rust belt states are in now. They're certainly using public policy and spending in a similar myopic, fiscally irresponsible fashion.



RR,

You never do your cause justice or any favors when you defend a party that has put the state in poverty, allege all Republicans are evil, or conveniently make excuses for a $10 T debt that was run up in this country between 2008 and 2016.


The argument he makes here is odd to me as it affect poor whites as well.


I was having an exchange with Drunk Squirrel about a week ago about how it the problems affecting rural whites were/are fundamentally the same as those hammering many urban blacks. Dr. King's Poor People's Campaign and to a lesser extent to arguments of Malcolm X & even the Black Panther Party were saying that in the 1960's.

The unfortunate thing is that one party focused on fear of the common (other) man in it's political strategy and the other didn't.

And the $10T debt is a red herring. Obama put the sunken costs of Iraq/Afghanistan debacles on with the other federal debt, in that we are also the costs of servicing the Bush debt (including the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy), the necessary cost of deficit stimulus spending to curb a massive recession and the continued foolish military spending that annually makes it worse, but cannot be touched in this political climate.

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Last edited by Regular Reader on Mon May 07, 2018 11:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 10:50 am 
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Surely this time we will show that racism no longer exists, or is as bad as it ever was.


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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 10:56 am 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
If you are seeing racist lending practices then it should be reported. I don't see how Trump can be blamed for that. His tax cuts were stupid, but I am not sure how they can be seen as racist.


To whom should they be reported? The federal agencies that are currently being scaled back, because regulations & government are bad? The Justice department headed by an old racist whose primary directive is to end all discussion of civil rights protections?

And for his tax cuts, they aren't necessarily racist, but classist. And stupid from both rural and urban working class perspectives. But the applause Trump gets from his rallies when he loudly claims that they are the primary reason behind the lower levels of Black or Hispanic unemployment levels does amuse.

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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 10:59 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
I never said that anyone had it easy. Your grandfather had to work hard and it paid off with a million dollar business at the end at a time when that was a huge amount of money. My grandfather had to run from the Russians and start over here without speaking any English and did pretty well for himself though not as well as that.

None of that changes the fact that when we are talking about the average white person that they had a head start over most other non-whites. Segregation, and many other things that were in place were major roadblocks to success and that was the point. They have been lessened but not completely erased yet. That's the point.


Exactly.

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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 11:00 am 
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long time guy wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
long time guy wrote:


You aren't interested in common ground. You just demonstrated by attempting to make it seem as though your grandfather's was similar to that of African Americans from the same pd. Was your grandfather the victim of redlining? how about restrictive covenants? Was his home ever fire bombed? Were Housing Projects created as means of promoting segregation and poverty? Were laws created ostensibly to prevent him from achieving the American Dream? Were laws created specifically so that he could be imprisoned? Was he ever denied entry into any school because of his race or ethnicity?


How do you know what I'm interested in? Why do you assume the worst in people? As for my grandfather, most of his brothers died in German prison camps, after they went back to fight for Poland. And yeah, their homes there were firebombed there.

But that suffering doesn't matter because of redlining I guess. There is plenty of suffering in history.



What does that have to do with the U.S.? funny how we are all nationalistic until we aren't I guess. 2ndly I inferred it from your own words.


So white people suffering elsewhere in the world doesn't matter. White privilege ends at the border.

You inferred nothing. You just don't want to have a discussion other than saying we had it worst, and we have no common ground. I don't know what that accomplishes.

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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 11:06 am 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
So white people suffering elsewhere in the world doesn't matter. White privilege ends at the border.

You inferred nothing. You just don't want to have a discussion other than saying we had it worst, and we have no common ground. I don't know what that accomplishes.


You entered this implying that things are better, and that that's good enough. Therefore the problems and remedies(apparently) should equally be of the past. No one is marginalizing the struggles and obstacles faced by anyone's family except as they are/were at the hand of this country, or so it seems in this discussion.

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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 11:11 am 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
long time guy wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
long time guy wrote:


You aren't interested in common ground. You just demonstrated by attempting to make it seem as though your grandfather's was similar to that of African Americans from the same pd. Was your grandfather the victim of redlining? how about restrictive covenants? Was his home ever fire bombed? Were Housing Projects created as means of promoting segregation and poverty? Were laws created ostensibly to prevent him from achieving the American Dream? Were laws created specifically so that he could be imprisoned? Was he ever denied entry into any school because of his race or ethnicity?


How do you know what I'm interested in? Why do you assume the worst in people? As for my grandfather, most of his brothers died in German prison camps, after they went back to fight for Poland. And yeah, their homes there were firebombed there.

But that suffering doesn't matter because of redlining I guess. There is plenty of suffering in history.



What does that have to do with the U.S.? funny how we are all nationalistic until we aren't I guess. 2ndly I inferred it from your own words.


So white people suffering elsewhere in the world doesn't matter. White privilege ends at the border.

You inferred nothing. You just don't want to have a discussion other than saying we had it worst, and we have no common ground. I don't know what that accomplishes.



You started by stating that your grandfather from Chicago's experiences were similar. Once I disproved that you made it about experiences in Europe. You are being patently disingenuous (as usual) and intellectually dishonest. My Grandfather actually fought in Germany during WWII. He sacrificed his life to see that the atrocities committed by the Nazis were eliminated. IS that an example of a a person that didn't "care". You know what else happened after his mission was completed? He became a victim of the same racist and discriminatory system that he'd attempted to eliminate in Germany.


Again what you posted has little to no relevance to the suffering experienced by African Americans in America.

No one has attempted to minimize the struggles faced by others either. You however have always attempted to diminish the struggles faced by African Americans. You invariably take the right wing stance of "quit your whining" whenever these discussions are held.

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Last edited by long time guy on Mon May 07, 2018 11:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 11:14 am 
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Regular Reader wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
If you are seeing racist lending practices then it should be reported. I don't see how Trump can be blamed for that. His tax cuts were stupid, but I am not sure how they can be seen as racist.


To whom should they be reported? The federal agencies that are currently being scaled back, because regulations & government are bad? The Justice department headed by an old racist whose primary directive is to end all discussion of civil rights protections?

And for his tax cuts, they aren't necessarily racist, but classist. And stupid from both rural and urban working class perspectives. But the applause Trump gets from his rallies when he loudly claims that they are the primary reason behind the lower levels of Black or Hispanic unemployment levels does amuse.


There are probably plenty of lawyers who would love this case if you had the data. Also there are organizations that would take up this cause: http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/03/13/naacp.lawsuit/

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Why are only 14 percent of black CPS 11th-graders proficient in English?

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For instance they were never taught that Columbus was a slave owner.


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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 11:19 am 
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long time guy wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
long time guy wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
long time guy wrote:


You aren't interested in common ground. You just demonstrated by attempting to make it seem as though your grandfather's was similar to that of African Americans from the same pd. Was your grandfather the victim of redlining? how about restrictive covenants? Was his home ever fire bombed? Were Housing Projects created as means of promoting segregation and poverty? Were laws created ostensibly to prevent him from achieving the American Dream? Were laws created specifically so that he could be imprisoned? Was he ever denied entry into any school because of his race or ethnicity?


How do you know what I'm interested in? Why do you assume the worst in people? As for my grandfather, most of his brothers died in German prison camps, after they went back to fight for Poland. And yeah, their homes there were firebombed there.

But that suffering doesn't matter because of redlining I guess. There is plenty of suffering in history.



What does that have to do with the U.S.? funny how we are all nationalistic until we aren't I guess. 2ndly I inferred it from your own words.


So white people suffering elsewhere in the world doesn't matter. White privilege ends at the border.

You inferred nothing. You just don't want to have a discussion other than saying we had it worst, and we have no common ground. I don't know what that accomplishes.



You started by stating that your grandfather from Chicago's experiences were similar. Once I disproved that you made it about experiences in Europe. You are being patently disingenuous (as usual) and intellectually dishonest. My Grandfather actually fought in Germany during WWII. He sacrificed his life to see that the atrocities committed by the Nazis were eliminated. IS that an example of a a person that didn't "care". You know what else happened after his mission was completed? He became a victim of the same racist and discriminatory system that he'd attempted to eliminate in Germany.


Again what you posted has little to no relevance to the suffering experienced by African Americans in America.


You disproved nothing, and got petty. There is more to the history of suffering than the African American experience. If you think it was worst for your ancestors great. You win.

Now what? What laws do you want to change. What would you do to make things more "equal"?

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Why are only 14 percent of black CPS 11th-graders proficient in English?

The Missing Link wrote:
For instance they were never taught that Columbus was a slave owner.


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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 11:23 am 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
I'd say what Jews in the first half of the 20th century lived under was a de-facto segregation.



Almost every European immigrant group faced some initial resistance and levels of discrimination when they arrived en masse. Irish need not apply, etc.

This doesn't change the fact that they were white people integrating into a white dominated society. Not to much of a subtle point is that physical feature stereotypes aside, it's a lot easier for Guisseppe Gugiliamone or Chiam Wentz to disguise their heritage or the heritage of their children/family than it is for someone to disguise that they are black. You know, human physiology and all.

Also, not for nothing, but acknowledging that certain European immigrant groups faced substantial challenges upon arriving in America is one thing, but comparing it to segregation in the south, where murder of a black person by a white person was essentially not a crime punishable by law shows that you either have no knowledge of what southern segregation constituted, or are blatantly misrepresenting it.


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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 11:24 am 
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Regular Reader wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
So white people suffering elsewhere in the world doesn't matter. White privilege ends at the border.

You inferred nothing. You just don't want to have a discussion other than saying we had it worst, and we have no common ground. I don't know what that accomplishes.


You entered this implying that things are better, and that that's good enough. Therefore the problems and remedies(apparently) should equally be of the past. No one is marginalizing the struggles and obstacles faced by anyone's family except as they are/were at the hand of this country, or so it seems in this discussion.


So your families suffering is worst, and that's all that matters. What other laws need to be changed to make things equal?

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Why are only 14 percent of black CPS 11th-graders proficient in English?

The Missing Link wrote:
For instance they were never taught that Columbus was a slave owner.


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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 11:27 am 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Tell this to someone in West Virginia

I won't deny that this is true for some, but such broad generalizations are idiotic


The point isn't that ALL white people are on easy street in America. That's not the point at all. The point is that there are certain advantages that are attuned to being born white in America. There are white people that are born into difficult situations, that isn't the point.

To refer back to what your post is implying.

Sure it is tough (on average based on statistics) to be a white person born in West Virgnina. But you know what is tougher, (on average based on statistics), is to be a black person born in West Virginia.


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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 11:30 am 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
long time guy wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
long time guy wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
long time guy wrote:


You aren't interested in common ground. You just demonstrated by attempting to make it seem as though your grandfather's was similar to that of African Americans from the same pd. Was your grandfather the victim of redlining? how about restrictive covenants? Was his home ever fire bombed? Were Housing Projects created as means of promoting segregation and poverty? Were laws created ostensibly to prevent him from achieving the American Dream? Were laws created specifically so that he could be imprisoned? Was he ever denied entry into any school because of his race or ethnicity?


How do you know what I'm interested in? Why do you assume the worst in people? As for my grandfather, most of his brothers died in German prison camps, after they went back to fight for Poland. And yeah, their homes there were firebombed there.

But that suffering doesn't matter because of redlining I guess. There is plenty of suffering in history.



What does that have to do with the U.S.? funny how we are all nationalistic until we aren't I guess. 2ndly I inferred it from your own words.


So white people suffering elsewhere in the world doesn't matter. White privilege ends at the border.

You inferred nothing. You just don't want to have a discussion other than saying we had it worst, and we have no common ground. I don't know what that accomplishes.



You started by stating that your grandfather from Chicago's experiences were similar. Once I disproved that you made it about experiences in Europe. You are being patently disingenuous (as usual) and intellectually dishonest. My Grandfather actually fought in Germany during WWII. He sacrificed his life to see that the atrocities committed by the Nazis were eliminated. IS that an example of a a person that didn't "care". You know what else happened after his mission was completed? He became a victim of the same racist and discriminatory system that he'd attempted to eliminate in Germany.


Again what you posted has little to no relevance to the suffering experienced by African Americans in America.


You disproved nothing, and got petty. There is more to the history of suffering than the African American experience. If you think it was worst for your ancestors great. You win.

Now what? What laws do you want to change. What would you do to make things more "equal"?


This discussion was relative to America. When you couldn't refute it you globalized it to include Europeans and presumed that I didn't care about their struggles. That is the epitome of petty and it demonstrates that you have difficulty with conducting this sort of discussion.

I will expound on the point for you.

One of the reasons that slavery was able to continue was due to the "fact" that poor whites supported it almost as much as rich, aristocratic whites


During Segregation it was also poor whites who strongly advocated for it's continuance.

Lastly if there is such a commonality in the struggles of poor whites and poor blacks then why doesn't Chicago really have ghetto white areas? WHere are the white ghettos in this city?

IN a city that is a third black, third hispanic and a third white then why are the only ghetto areas black and hispanic?

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Last edited by long time guy on Mon May 07, 2018 11:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 11:34 am 
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long time guy wrote:

This discussion was relative to America. When you couldn't refute it you globalized it to include Europeans and presumed that I didn't care about their struggles. That is the epitome of petty and it demonstrates that you have difficulty with conducting this sort of discussion.

I will expound on the point for you.

ON the reasons that slavery was able to continue was due to the "fact" that poor whites supported it almost as much as rich, aristocratic whites


The idea was white privilege, and I related my families person history as it was known to me. Plenty of poor whites took up arms and died to end slavery. So this pushing of guilt on an entire race is "problematic" to borrow a term from your camp, and you really are not understanding my point. You just want to engage in name calling because you are angry about the topic.

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Why are only 14 percent of black CPS 11th-graders proficient in English?

The Missing Link wrote:
For instance they were never taught that Columbus was a slave owner.


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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 11:38 am 
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Darkside wrote:
So can we close this out since we have a clear winner?
I mean loser?


Just a few pages ago, the thread almost ended. It was not meant to be.

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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 11:40 am 
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The Dems are at least equal opportunity. They have screwed all of us.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opin ... story.html

I'd get out if I could.


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