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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 9:56 am 
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leashyourkids wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
SomeGuy wrote:
Here is the thing, Brother Leash, taking a more cooperative and less hostile tone with Russia means WW3?

I understand the loose cannon stuff, but if The Big One was to break out it would be between the old guard over the Eastern Europe and Baltic States.



Wasn't Romney pilloried by the Democrats for suggesting our greatest enemy was Russia? It seems that suddenly the Democrats have concurred.


I honestly don't care. All these things just muddy the water to me. The Democrats are inconsistent... great. Hillary's done a lot worse than that, and I can't stand her. Great.

Doesn't change the fact that I don't want a complete maniac with no regard for anything in the White House. I'll take evil, corrupt, inconsistent, whatever you want over him.


I prefer her to him as well, though not by much. But I think some of the alarmist screeching about Trump is over the top. What do you think he's going to do?


I haven't the slightest idea. That's the problem. He clearly doesn't even have the knowledge necessary to articulate a platform, and he's completely unhinged and unpredictable.

I was discussing this with a friend the other day... I generally don't believe a president has that much power. If we were talking a run-of-the-mill person who I disagreed with on, let's say, every single issue, I wouldn't care. The issue is that the executive branch has basically gained unchecked power as the commander-in-chief due to the last few presidents. I do not feel comfortable with Trump as commander-in-chief because he could basically do anything he wanted without anyone else's approval. The ramifications of that are mind-boggling. I also have no faith that he even has any allegiance to the U.S. Despite what anyone thinks about Hillary, at the very least, she cares about how she is perceived and her legacy enough not to do anything extremely crazy. I'm unsure at what point rational people like yourself stop downplaying the things he says and does simply because of hatred for the Clintons. There was a point during the primaries when I may have hated Hillary more than any person on Earth. It doesn't change the fact, for me, that Trump must not become the U.S. president, and it's crazy to me that more don't feel the same way.


See, what you describe there I kind of feel about Ted Cruz, and to a lesser extent Bush II. I can't trust a guy who thinks his presidency is part of "God's Plan". Trump says a lot of goofy shit, but I really don't believe he's this dangerous out there guy. In any case, the Republic has survived the likes of Franklin Pierce, Warren G. Harding, and Jimmy Carter, I'm sure we'll survive Trump or Hillary Clinton.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 10:00 am 
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You'd be surprised by the number of people who think it is "God's Plan" to elevate Trump to the Presidency.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 10:01 am 
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Seacrest wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:

No, but he's almost certainly going to make the entire Middle East hate us.


Because they don't already?


Of course they do, but any sliver of good will with any of "the good ones" will be completely gone.



Name the "good" ones.


Even if you didn't think there were individual "good" countries, there are individual "good" people within those countries who are valuable to the West... unless we want to start a Holy War against billions of people.


You stated there were "good ones" in the Middle East.

Keep saying I'm a Trump supporter for asking you to back up what you posted.

I'm not interested in a Holy War, just a list of who you believe these countries are.

leashyourkids wrote:
I didn't say countries. I literally said "ones" - and I'm referring to the population of Muslims as a whole. Are you saying that there's not a single "good" Muslim in the world?


Name a country in the Middle East where the good Muslims have political power then.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 10:05 am 
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Seacrest wrote:
Name a country in the Middle East where the good Muslims have political power then.


Why? Are we just making up questions now that the other person has to answer?

Here's one...

Name a state that is culturally similar to Australia. I look forward to your response.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 10:07 am 
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Sir Loin Of Beef wrote:
You'd be surprised by the number of people who think it is "God's Plan" to elevate Trump to the Presidency.



I don't believe that's true. Trump is obviously not the preferred candidate of evangelicals. He took on Pence to placate those people.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 10:08 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
See, what you describe there I kind of feel about Ted Cruz, and to a lesser extent Bush II. I can't trust a guy who thinks his presidency is part of "God's Plan". Trump says a lot of goofy shit, but I really don't believe he's this dangerous out there guy. In any case, the Republic has survived the likes of Franklin Pierce, Warren G. Harding, and Jimmy Carter, I'm sure we'll survive Trump or Hillary Clinton.


Totally agree on Cruz or anyone else who thinks this life is just the dress rehearsal for the really great times we get to spend with Jesus. I think Trump would be a disaster as president, similar to Bush II, but with way more scandals. Don't get the idea that he would start a nuclear war. How is that good for his business? And he does seem to care about his children.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 10:08 am 
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 10:11 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
See, what you describe there I kind of feel about Ted Cruz, and to a lesser extent Bush II. I can't trust a guy who thinks his presidency is part of "God's Plan". Trump says a lot of goofy shit, but I really don't believe he's this dangerous out there guy.


I would have agreed at one time, even during this primary season. But he has convinced me otherwise. It is his temperament, not his ideology, that scares me (I don't think he has an ideology).

It should also be noted that his VP selection is very similar to Cruz or Bush II in that regard.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 10:12 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:

No, but he's almost certainly going to make the entire Middle East hate us.


Because they don't already?


Don't vote for Trump, because then the Middle East will really hate us.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 10:12 am 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
See, what you describe there I kind of feel about Ted Cruz, and to a lesser extent Bush II. I can't trust a guy who thinks his presidency is part of "God's Plan". Trump says a lot of goofy shit, but I really don't believe he's this dangerous out there guy. In any case, the Republic has survived the likes of Franklin Pierce, Warren G. Harding, and Jimmy Carter, I'm sure we'll survive Trump or Hillary Clinton.


Totally agree on Cruz or anyone else who thinks this life is just the dress rehearsal for the really great times we get to spend with Jesus. I think Trump would be a disaster as president, similar to Bush II, but with way more scandals. Don't get the idea that he would start a nuclear war. How is that good for his business? And he does seem to care about his children.



Which is why he will be cutting real estate side deals on their behalf throughout his tenure.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 10:15 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Sir Loin Of Beef wrote:
You'd be surprised by the number of people who think it is "God's Plan" to elevate Trump to the Presidency.



I don't believe that's true. Trump is obviously not the preferred candidate of evangelicals. He took on Pence to placate those people.


He is the preferred candidate to MANY Evangelicals.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... trump.html

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 10:16 am 
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Bullshit "journalism".

Though not surprising.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 10:20 am 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
I think Trump would be a disaster as president, similar to Bush II, but with way more scandals. Don't get the idea that he would start a nuclear war. How is that good for his business? And he does seem to care about his children.


Yes, I agree...I think conveying that was the major point of having his kids featured prominently at the convention.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 10:33 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
SomeGuy wrote:
Here is the thing, Brother Leash, taking a more cooperative and less hostile tone with Russia means WW3?

I understand the loose cannon stuff, but if The Big One was to break out it would be between the old guard over the Eastern Europe and Baltic States.



Wasn't Romney pilloried by the Democrats for suggesting our greatest enemy was Russia? It seems that suddenly the Democrats have concurred.


I honestly don't care. All these things just muddy the water to me. The Democrats are inconsistent... great. Hillary's done a lot worse than that, and I can't stand her. Great.

Doesn't change the fact that I don't want a complete maniac with no regard for anything in the White House. I'll take evil, corrupt, inconsistent, whatever you want over him.


I prefer her to him as well, though not by much. But I think some of the alarmist screeching about Trump is over the top. What do you think he's going to do?

Who knows?

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/arc ... ce/493364/

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 10:48 am 
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No it isn't. They found a guy willing to use his son's death in the service of their candidate. I don't find that admirable.

Ok so what are your thoughts on the Bengahzi mom blaming HRC personally for her son's death?


Hillary was actually that guy's boss. Did Hillary have anything to do with making policy that caused or created the situation in Benghazi? Did she then lie about what occurred there? I think that's a little more germane than a parent simply saying, "My son died in action and I hate Donald Trump." And I think the fact that you are drawing equivalence between the two situations shows a definite bias.

There is no bais at all. I don't like HRC. The bias is in that you are pissed at this guy for pointing out Trump is a bigot, but are seeming fine with BENGHAZI!!!! still being a thing.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 11:09 am 
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Baby McNown wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Baby McNown wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
No it isn't. They found a guy willing to use his son's death in the service of their candidate. I don't find that admirable.

Ok so what are your thoughts on the Bengahzi mom blaming HRC personally for her son's death?


Hillary was actually that guy's boss. Did Hillary have anything to do with making policy that caused or created the situation in Benghazi? Did she then lie about what occurred there? I think that's a little more germane than a parent simply saying, "My son died in action and I hate Donald Trump." And I think the fact that you are drawing equivalence between the two situations shows a definite bias.

There is no bais at all. I don't like HRC. The bias is in that you are pissed at this guy for pointing out Trump is a bigot, but are seeming fine with BENGHAZI!!!! still being a thing.


I'm not pissed at the guy at all. He lost his son. I just think his anger is misdirected. Look, wouldn't Mr. Khan be better served to take out his anger on his fellow Muslims who are blowing people up? And wouldn't we all be better served if all our politicians, regardless of party, would admit there is a problem with a significant portion of those practicing Islam? I don't think Trump has the answer but at least he's acknowledging there is a problem. The Benghazi situation is a direct reflection of Hillary Clinton's leadership and thus, much more pertinent to this election than a dead soldier who has nothing whatsoever to do with Donald Trump.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 11:30 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Baby McNown wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Baby McNown wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
No it isn't. They found a guy willing to use his son's death in the service of their candidate. I don't find that admirable.

Ok so what are your thoughts on the Bengahzi mom blaming HRC personally for her son's death?


Hillary was actually that guy's boss. Did Hillary have anything to do with making policy that caused or created the situation in Benghazi? Did she then lie about what occurred there? I think that's a little more germane than a parent simply saying, "My son died in action and I hate Donald Trump." And I think the fact that you are drawing equivalence between the two situations shows a definite bias.

There is no bais at all. I don't like HRC. The bias is in that you are pissed at this guy for pointing out Trump is a bigot, but are seeming fine with BENGHAZI!!!! still being a thing.


I just think his anger is misdirected. Look, wouldn't Mr. Khan be better served to take out his anger on his fellow Muslims who are blowing people up? I don't think Trump has the answer but at least he's acknowledging there is a problem.


You have taking quite a beating here for these stances but no one so far has been able to refute them.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 11:30 am 
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Name a country in the Middle East where the good Muslims have political power then.


I don't know what you think a "good Muslim" is, but here is a list of all of the muslim countires that have good relations with the USA:
From Juan Cole's interview with Harper Magazine's Browsings blog:

"Turkey is a NATO ally, and Washington has designated Morocco, Egypt, Jordan, Bahrain, Kuwait and Pakistan as non-NATO allies. Other governments of Muslim-majority countries, including Saudi Arabia, Qatar, the United Arab Emirates and Yemen have offered the U.S. intelligence, security, and/or military cooperation of a high order. Aside from Europe, there is probably no other culture area on the globe where the United States has as many formal and informal allies. The only countries the United States has relatively severe differences with among nearly fifty Muslim-majority states are Syria, Iran, and the Sudan, and that sort of thing changes over time."

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 11:34 am 
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leashyourkids wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
See, what you describe there I kind of feel about Ted Cruz, and to a lesser extent Bush II. I can't trust a guy who thinks his presidency is part of "God's Plan". Trump says a lot of goofy shit, but I really don't believe he's this dangerous out there guy.


I would have agreed at one time, even during this primary season. But he has convinced me otherwise. It is his temperament, not his ideology, that scares me (I don't think he has an ideology).

It should also be noted that his VP selection is very similar to Cruz or Bush II in that regard.

I agree that neither Hillary nor Trump presents a major concern in terms of domestic policy. Our system of government limits the damage one person can inflict. However, a president's words do matter - particularly on international issues. At a bare minimum he would be a tremendous embarrassment the minute he took office (many people in other nations are stunned he even has a chance). The fact that he doesn't seem to have even the slightest understanding of international policy nor the desire to learn, coupled with an unfiltered speaking manner is truly troubling. As crazy as things have gotten in recent years the last thing we need is a thin-skinned, crass loudmouth representing our interests in World politics.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 11:36 am 
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Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
See, what you describe there I kind of feel about Ted Cruz, and to a lesser extent Bush II. I can't trust a guy who thinks his presidency is part of "God's Plan". Trump says a lot of goofy shit, but I really don't believe he's this dangerous out there guy.


I would have agreed at one time, even during this primary season. But he has convinced me otherwise. It is his temperament, not his ideology, that scares me (I don't think he has an ideology).

It should also be noted that his VP selection is very similar to Cruz or Bush II in that regard.

I agree that neither Hillary nor Trump presents a major concern in terms of domestic policy. Our system of government limits the damage one person can inflict. However, a president's words do matter - particularly on international issues. At a bare minimum he would be a tremendous embarrassment the minute he took office (many people in other nations are stunned he even has a chance). The fact that he doesn't seem to have even the slightest understanding of international policy nor the desire to learn, coupled with an unfiltered speaking manner is truly troubling. As crazy as things have gotten in recent years the last thing we need is a thin-skinned, crass loudmouth representing our interests in World politics.


No they aren't. Unless they never heard of Berlusconi.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 11:43 am 
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Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
See, what you describe there I kind of feel about Ted Cruz, and to a lesser extent Bush II. I can't trust a guy who thinks his presidency is part of "God's Plan". Trump says a lot of goofy shit, but I really don't believe he's this dangerous out there guy.


I would have agreed at one time, even during this primary season. But he has convinced me otherwise. It is his temperament, not his ideology, that scares me (I don't think he has an ideology).

It should also be noted that his VP selection is very similar to Cruz or Bush II in that regard.

I agree that neither Hillary nor Trump presents a major concern in terms of domestic policy. Our system of government limits the damage one person can inflict. However, a president's words do matter - particularly on international issues. At a bare minimum he would be a tremendous embarrassment the minute he took office (many people in other nations are stunned he even has a chance). The fact that he doesn't seem to have even the slightest understanding of international policy nor the desire to learn, coupled with an unfiltered speaking manner is truly troubling. As crazy as things have gotten in recent years the last thing we need is a thin-skinned, crass loudmouth representing our interests in World politics.


When he disavowed our NATO commitments to the Baltic countries, you are exactly right. It has scared a lot of allies.

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Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
many people in other nations are stunned he even has a chance


Should that really be a consideration though? And that seems antithetical to the concept currently being pushed by Democrats that Trump is a Russian puppet.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 11:47 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
many people in other nations are stunned he even has a chance


Should that really be a consideration though? And that seems antithetical to the concept currently being pushed by Democrats that Trump is a Russian puppet.

You quoted an aside. The broader issue was the "consideration."

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 11:48 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
many people in other nations are stunned he even has a chance


Should that really be a consideration though? And that seems antithetical to the concept currently being pushed by Democrats that Trump is a Russian puppet.



As a voter, I do worry about the implications of a politician and his/her ability to get along with other leaders. I am not worried about the opinion of the average German, but I would like our President and the Cabinet to be able to deal with Merkel.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 11:52 am 
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Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
many people in other nations are stunned he even has a chance


Should that really be a consideration though? And that seems antithetical to the concept currently being pushed by Democrats that Trump is a Russian puppet.

You quoted an aside. The broader issue was the "consideration."


Trump is reminiscent of Reagan during the 1980 campaign. It's easy to forget 35 years later, but he was considered a loose cannon too. And he said things worse than anything Trump has said.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgSSRE27GQ0

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 11:55 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
many people in other nations are stunned he even has a chance


Should that really be a consideration though?

You just praised Trump for recognizing Islam is a problem. If we are only concerned with America and the American people, then you shouldn't give a shit about the Islam angle. Islamic terrorism isn't even in the top 100 things that affect Americans. I'm not sure it cracks the top 1000. It's a bunch of fear mongering bullshit made easy by the Information Age.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 11:56 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Sir Loin Of Beef wrote:
You'd be surprised by the number of people who think it is "God's Plan" to elevate Trump to the Presidency.



I don't believe that's true. Trump is obviously not the preferred candidate of evangelicals. He took on Pence to placate those people.


http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/m ... ve-america
Quote:
"Michele Bachmann expressed hope on Saturday that God has “lifted up” Donald Trump to defeat Hillary Clinton and save the country from Marxism and radical Islamism."


http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/d ... y-election
Quote:
The listener asked Barton if there is anything that delegates can do to stop the nomination of Trump, to which Barton replied that Christians should simply accept that Trump is "God's guy" in this election.


http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/w ... ve-america
Quote:
The far-right outlet WorldNetDaily published a column today by author Jerry Kaifetz titled “God has a History of Using Men Like Trump,” in which Kaifetz argues that God may be using Donald Trump to save America from total collapse just as he used King Ahasuerus to stop a plot by Haman to exterminate the Jews.


http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/t ... ond-coming
Quote:
Frank Amedia, a pastor who says he is serving in a volunteer capacity as Donald Trump’s “Christian policy” liaison, said last month that God told him last year that Trump would win the GOP nomination and that he believes Trump has been “raised up” to help pave the way for the Second Coming.


http://www.charismanews.com/opinion/570 ... d-purposes
Quote:
I was fascinated to talk to Lance Wallnau, a respected Charismatic minister, who believes that God is raising up Donald Trump in the same way the he raised up Cyrus in Isaiah 45:4-5.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 11:57 am 
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Sir Loin Of Beef wrote:
Quote:

Name a country in the Middle East where the good Muslims have political power then.


I don't know what you think a "good Muslim" is, but here is a list of all of the muslim countires that have good relations with the USA:
From Juan Cole's interview with Harper Magazine's Browsings blog:

"Turkey is a NATO ally, and Washington has designated Morocco, Egypt, Jordan, Bahrain, Kuwait and Pakistan as non-NATO allies. Other governments of Muslim-majority countries, including Saudi Arabia, Qatar, the United Arab Emirates and Yemen have offered the U.S. intelligence, security, and/or military cooperation of a high order. Aside from Europe, there is probably no other culture area on the globe where the United States has as many formal and informal allies. The only countries the United States has relatively severe differences with among nearly fifty Muslim-majority states are Syria, Iran, and the Sudan, and that sort of thing changes over time."


Have you read what has been going on in Turkey?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/ ... st-funding

WikiLeaks cables portray Saudi Arabia as a cash machine for terrorists
Hillary Clinton memo highlights Gulf states' failure to block funding for groups like al-Qaida, Taliban and Lashkar-e-Taiba


http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/wor ... b-emirates

Avi Jorisch, a former Treasury Department official, is senior fellow for counterterrorism at the American Foreign Policy Council in Washington, DC.


The security of many countries is being endangered by the United Arab Emirates, a confederation of seven small states located in the Arabian Peninsula. Usually considered a Western ally, this false friend also serves as a regional financial hub for mob figures, arms dealers, drug traffickers, jihadis, and rogue regimes. The White House and the Financial Action Task Force—set up by the G7 to combat money laundering and terrorism financing—have so far failed to take action to stop this emerging threat.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... loses.html
Terror financiers are living freely in Qatar, US discloses
The American official in charge of terror sanctions has revealed that two senior al-Qaeda money men have escaped punishment in the Gulf state

If you are still convinced that these nations are our allies, then tell me what influence a good Muslim can have.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 12:01 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
many people in other nations are stunned he even has a chance


Should that really be a consideration though?

You just praised Trump for recognizing Islam is a problem. If we are only concerned with America and the American people, then you shouldn't give a shit about the Islam angle. Islamic terrorism isn't even in the top 100 things that affect Americans. I'm not sure it cracks the top 1000. It's a bunch of fear mongering bullshit made easy by the Information Age.


Politicians have been selling fear from both sides for most of my lifetime.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 12:03 pm 
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Seacrest wrote:

If you are still convinced that these nations are our allies, then tell me what influence a good Muslim can have.

They can save American soldiers lives. I served with more than one of those soldiers at Ft Polk.

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