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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 12:54 pm 
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This is why I'm a never nude..


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 1:00 pm 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
But better still would be to not train them
So we should have armed forces that are not trained on how to fight or shoot? That seems odd.

WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
But better still would be to not...put them in harms way in the first place.
Again, this is a completely different conversation.

WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
I do not get the moral outrage for nude photo sharing consider everything else that we ask the military to do that is deemed perfectly fine.
"We" do not ask the military to do anything, and there have been MANY incidents where the military had given orders that people had deemed 'not fine'

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 1:02 pm 
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Military veterans are less likely to wind up in prison: https://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=5479

This is kind of surprising as some "wayward" individuals wind up in the military by coercion or because of the lack of other options.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 1:06 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
But better still would be to not train them
So we should have armed forces that are not trained on how to fight or shoot? That seems odd.

WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
But better still would be to not...put them in harms way in the first place.
Again, this is a completely different conversation.

WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
I do not get the moral outrage for nude photo sharing consider everything else that we ask the military to do that is deemed perfectly fine.
"We" do not ask the military to do anything, and there have been MANY incidents where the military had given orders that people had deemed 'not fine'


Do you think that we need hundreds of thousands of soldiers with rifles now? If you were dropping in from another planet you would not find the basic premise odd that - we take people train them to kill others. Send them overseas to kill people, but we are morally outraged by them sending naked pictures of girls they know. Probably, without filling out BRick's form first.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 1:09 pm 
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This thread is going so poorly JLN won't even jump in.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 1:10 pm 
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well since sending naked pictures of people we know is no biggie, let's share them here. Ruffcorn, you first.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 1:10 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
This thread is going so poorly JLN won't even jump in.


I had thought the same thing. :lol:

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 1:11 pm 
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Hatchetman wrote:
well since sending naked pictures of people we know is no biggie, let's share them here. Ruffcorn, you first.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 1:12 pm 
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Hatchetman wrote:
well since sending naked pictures of people we know is no biggie, let's share them here. Ruffcorn, you first.


That's just bizarre.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 1:13 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
This thread is going so poorly JLN won't even jump in.


You took the bold stand that consent is good.

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Last edited by WaitingforRuffcorn on Mon Mar 06, 2017 1:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 1:13 pm 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
KDdidit wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Shooting somebody and sharing a nude photo of somebody without their consent are both felonies. I do not think they are equal, but that is not the point here.

Like Hank and TP have said, Ruffcorn, there is a very simple question that you are refusing to address. What crimes are OK for Marines and Ex-Marines to commit?


I do not think that sharing nude photos should be a crime. If it's blackmail that's a crime, but merely sharing nude photos is nearly impossible to police. We are getting into crazy amounts of policing because people's feelings are hurt. It's not ideal, but then again this is not an ideal world. When a girl sexts someone I don't think it's up to the police what happens after that unless the photo was being used to blackmail or threaten the person in a malicious way.

My larger point is that we as a society have decided that it's perfectly acceptable to train these guys to be loyal to each other to a fault, value the brotherhood above all else, yet we need to act shocked and appalled when they appear to lack morality in other areas? To me it's blowback of sorts, and it more calls into question whether it beneficial to have so many trained killers under government employment. What's an acceptable level of crime from these people? That's a question that seems to depend on the level of need that we have for them. Ideally, of course the answer is none, but I do not think it's fair to ask them to go into these places and kill for us then point the finger and condemn them when they do not act according the standards we have put in place in modern corporate America.


Your feelings on the legality of sharing the pictures is irrelevant. These were their fellow soldier's pictures they uploaded. The larger point should be they failed the "Brotherhood" part, they failed to be loyal to each other.


There is a reason it's called a brotherhood.


No, there's obviously a reason you call it a brotherhood.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 1:17 pm 
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pic found here:


http://www.pictures.yt/jim-nabors-pictures-yt-18/

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 1:21 pm 
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KDdidit wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
KDdidit wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Shooting somebody and sharing a nude photo of somebody without their consent are both felonies. I do not think they are equal, but that is not the point here.

Like Hank and TP have said, Ruffcorn, there is a very simple question that you are refusing to address. What crimes are OK for Marines and Ex-Marines to commit?


I do not think that sharing nude photos should be a crime. If it's blackmail that's a crime, but merely sharing nude photos is nearly impossible to police. We are getting into crazy amounts of policing because people's feelings are hurt. It's not ideal, but then again this is not an ideal world. When a girl sexts someone I don't think it's up to the police what happens after that unless the photo was being used to blackmail or threaten the person in a malicious way.

My larger point is that we as a society have decided that it's perfectly acceptable to train these guys to be loyal to each other to a fault, value the brotherhood above all else, yet we need to act shocked and appalled when they appear to lack morality in other areas? To me it's blowback of sorts, and it more calls into question whether it beneficial to have so many trained killers under government employment. What's an acceptable level of crime from these people? That's a question that seems to depend on the level of need that we have for them. Ideally, of course the answer is none, but I do not think it's fair to ask them to go into these places and kill for us then point the finger and condemn them when they do not act according the standards we have put in place in modern corporate America.


Your feelings on the legality of sharing the pictures is irrelevant. These were their fellow soldier's pictures they uploaded. The larger point should be they failed the "Brotherhood" part, they failed to be loyal to each other.


There is a reason it's called a brotherhood.


No, there's obviously a reason you call it a brotherhood.


So males being the primary soldiers throughout human history has been a mistake orchestrated by the patriarchy?

I will just re-state what I said at the beginning. That it seems to be a stretch to be morally outraged that these guys were trading nude photos of female co-workers when we ask them to go kill people for us overseas.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 1:26 pm 
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So they should only be loyal to men, I got you


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 1:30 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
This thread is going so poorly JLN won't even jump in.

:lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 1:34 pm 
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I think most people believe training young men to go kill on our behalf is necessary and the vast majority of Americans never stop for even a split second to consider the morality of such. On the other hand, sharing nudie shots without permission is so obviously a violation that people will be outraged by it.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 1:37 pm 
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KDdidit wrote:
So they should only be loyal to men, I got you


You have addressed nothing that I said. You want to argue that sharing nude photos is bad. I've never said that it's a good thing. I just find the moral outrage to this to be ridiculous. We train them to kill and send them to hunt down our enemies. This is perfectly acceptable. Nude photo trading? Outrageous.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 1:40 pm 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
KDdidit wrote:
So they should only be loyal to men, I got you


You have addressed nothing that I said. You want to argue that sharing nude photos is bad. I've never said that it's a good thing. I just find the moral outrage to this to be ridiculous. We train them to kill and send them to hunt down our enemies. This is perfectly acceptable. Nude photo trading? Outrageous.

Agreed.

If they can't keep their porn trading secret then it's pretty concerning how fast and loose they are with classified material, y'know?


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 1:41 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
This thread is going so poorly JLN won't even jump in.


:lol:

I have a hard time wrapping my brain around criminalizing "revenge porn", I think it's better served as a civil matter, but not at the disgust and disapproval of actually doing it.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 1:47 pm 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
A group of young men were sharing nude photos of girls? Call me not shocked. We train these guys to be desensitized to killing people but they need to be perfect gentlemen and respect women in their private Facebook discussions.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/05/politics/ ... stigation/


They shared naked pictures online of other Marines without their permission.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 1:52 pm 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
KDdidit wrote:
So they should only be loyal to men, I got you


You have addressed nothing that I said. You want to argue that sharing nude photos is bad. I've never said that it's a good thing. I just find the moral outrage to this to be ridiculous. We train them to kill and send them to hunt down our enemies. This is perfectly acceptable. Nude photo trading? Outrageous.


No one in this tread has really expressed any moral outrage except you. Everyone else is just shrugging and saying, "yeah they shouldn't have done that" instead of saying, "yeah they shouldn't have done that, but lol, what do you expect from trained killers?"


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 1:54 pm 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
KDdidit wrote:
It's like they had no choice but to upload the nude pictures. Maybe they're the real victims here.


So we should put them all in prison? Should we make sure that all of our Marines pass sensitivity training before we send them off to kill people in the Middle East? Don't you see the inherent hypocrisy in this scandal?


I see the hypocrisy in being allowed to kill and not drink because of your age. Just because you have signed up to be a killing machine doesn't mean you should also be allowed to embarrass or violate the rights of others

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 1:54 pm 
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Nas wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
A group of young men were sharing nude photos of girls? Call me not shocked. We train these guys to be desensitized to killing people but they need to be perfect gentlemen and respect women in their private Facebook discussions.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/05/politics/ ... stigation/


They shared naked pictures online of other Marines without their permission.


Maybe. There are also hundreds of threads on 4Chan and Reddit that do the same thing. Are all of those people criminals? It's not that interesting to me to debate the morality of nude photo sharing. I mostly think it's impossible to police due to the volume of it. I think training these guys to be killers and exposing them to combat is far more damaging to society than their nude photo sharing. Yet, it's considered to be heroic, while this is the outrage of the week.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 1:56 pm 
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KDdidit wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
KDdidit wrote:
So they should only be loyal to men, I got you


You have addressed nothing that I said. You want to argue that sharing nude photos is bad. I've never said that it's a good thing. I just find the moral outrage to this to be ridiculous. We train them to kill and send them to hunt down our enemies. This is perfectly acceptable. Nude photo trading? Outrageous.


No one in this tread has really expressed any moral outrage except you. Everyone else is just shrugging and saying, "yeah they shouldn't have done that" instead of saying, "yeah they shouldn't have done that, but lol, what do you expect from trained killers?"


The moral outrage is in the media. It's why it's a story. Do you not think that being trained to kill could make you less sensitive to the rights of others?

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 2:00 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
These are all active duty people. Do you not think that the environment created by the Marines is the problem here? Yet the crime is these guys sharing photos?
Didn't you also argue that this happened all over the place?


It does. I am guessing at most fraternities.
Not exactly a ringing endorsement there.


so even after admitting that it this happens other places like fraternities, you're still clinging to the "they're trained killing machines" argument ?


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 2:07 pm 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
The moral outrage is in the media. It's why it's a story. Do you not think that being trained to kill could make you less sensitive to the rights of others?


I'm glad you know exactly what the media's mindset is. Posting on this message board probably makes us all less sensitive to the rights of others.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 2:08 pm 
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Bagels wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
These are all active duty people. Do you not think that the environment created by the Marines is the problem here? Yet the crime is these guys sharing photos?
Didn't you also argue that this happened all over the place?


It does. I am guessing at most fraternities.
Not exactly a ringing endorsement there.


so even after admitting that it this happens other places like fraternities, you're still clinging to the "they're trained killing machines" argument ?


It does happen everywhere, which makes it nearly impossible to police. My point is that why is the morality of them trading nude photos called into question when they have been trained to be desensitized to the rights of others and sent to kill people.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 2:09 pm 
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KDdidit wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
The moral outrage is in the media. It's why it's a story. Do you not think that being trained to kill could make you less sensitive to the rights of others?


I'm glad you know exactly what the media's mindset is. Posting on this message board probably makes us all less sensitive to the rights of others.


It's to post things to get a lot of clicks and shares. Guys behaving badly is one of their niches.

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Why are only 14 percent of black CPS 11th-graders proficient in English?

The Missing Link wrote:
For instance they were never taught that Columbus was a slave owner.


Last edited by WaitingforRuffcorn on Mon Mar 06, 2017 2:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 2:16 pm 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Bagels wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
These are all active duty people. Do you not think that the environment created by the Marines is the problem here? Yet the crime is these guys sharing photos?
Didn't you also argue that this happened all over the place?


It does. I am guessing at most fraternities.
Not exactly a ringing endorsement there.


so even after admitting that it this happens other places like fraternities, you're still clinging to the "they're trained killing machines" argument ?


It does happen everywhere, which makes it nearly impossible to police. My point is that why is the morality of them trading nude photos called into question when they have been trained to be desensitized to the rights of others and sent to kill people.


Ummmm...because what they did was illegal. If they killed or tortured people illegally, the media would rightfully report on that and people would rightfully be upset about it. If you want to argue the legal merits of disseminating private photos then do that. Stop arguing that because they are trained to kill that they get a pass for more minor activities. Your current point makes no sense unless you are willing to forgive every illegal act they might commit.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 2:16 pm 
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Ruffcorn, police officers are trained to take down hardened criminals. Generally they have at least three weapons on them at all time. Is it OK to be morally outraged when a cop punches a suspect or uses his nightstick to beat a suspect after a foot chase? After all, the cop is trained to catch criminals that are sometimes very violent...

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