yeah, I mean, he's Dan Bernstein ish in his disdain. I voted for the other candidate too and Trump's ruining america in other ways, but don't shove so far the other way as to insult my tax breaks. I'm decidedly barely middle class, I think I like the basics of this plan. I don't care if Trump's name is on it if it helps me.

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Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

Even if you favor doing away with the estate tax to go after wealth accumulation instead, you shouldn't favor its repeal unless it's simultaneous with those tax increases. Because those more effective ways to raise tax revenue are probably never coming since they'll be fought tooth and nail by the wealthy.

What if they name it the KKK tax cut plan?

People think the estate tax only affects Rockefellers lighting cigars with benjamins and spitting on the poor.

It also affects generational ranchers and farmers in the western states whose property value incurs an estate tax.

Moreover, why the fuck is the government entitled to my earnings because it exists when I die? If I pay taxes all my life then you want to tax my death? GTFO

All these posters in favor of expensive social policies that inflate the debt now want to shit on a tax plan because in the short run it now increases the federal debt? WYC?

I'm about 1 step from throwing in with the taxation is theft crowd.

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maybe Mike North knows.

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Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

Not really a WYC. It's reasonable to think some things are worth the burden of increasing the debt and some are not.

Huh? Which thread are you reading?

Ari Fleischer‏Verified account @AriFleischer 6m6 minutes ago
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Replying to @AriFleischer
Top 1% (income > $465,000) made 21% of all the money and paid 39% of all income taxes.


Just saw this tweet. Not even sure of the context but MADE in this tweet makes it sound like the top 1% are literally producing the money, the way a farmer would crops etc

You make money don't you? It's just the way we speak about such things.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

This is a good point but it's not like the estate tax is a massive revenue generator anyways. Personally, I don't think it's worth fighting to get rid of though at the current level and I expect some sort of estate tax will exist at the end too. It's just not a winning battle to remove the estate tax concerns from Bill Gates and Warren Buffet.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

You better believe it.

I dont know, in that tweet, it just read weird to me.

One thing worth noting is that Gates and Buffet will not pay any significant estate taxes. They have both pledged to give away most of their money to charity (Gates has already given away billions) when they die. The estate tax encourages charitable giving, which I guess is a really positive side benefit.

Zeph brings up a great point in that the "better" system should be designed all at once.

For my part, I want a fair and efficient collection system, a balanced budget every year, and small government. It seems that sales taxes are the most efficient way to collect revenue, albeit highly regressive. I would be in favor of a national sales tax to replace our income tax system with a universal income that protects people making less than say $50,000 per year from the impact of the national sales tax. How would you do that? Well, you pay every citizens the national sales tax rate, like 15%, times the expected spending of someone making $50,000. That way, they are effectively paying zero percent.

The current income tax heavy scheme is just ripe with giveaways and expense in complying. And with a 40% Federal Rate, the rich are still getting richer and richer....

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Hawaii (fuck) You

To be fair, it does seem like the rich are literally printing their own money. I was just giving you a hard time.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

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Elections have consequences.

Some of the posts here surprise me but I am not sure why. The idea of taking someone's money away from them because they die seems ridiculous. As was said this money was likely taxed at least once already. What is the rational for this thought other than we that are not rich want the rich person's stuff?

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Elections have consequences.

It comes down to preventing a permanent aristocracy, which was the hallmark of old European systems. We are supposed to be a classless society. In America, we like to pretend that everyone is equal at birth and has the same opportunities to achieve great things. In reality, we all know that social mobility is a major problem.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

Because we are American and against the idea of Royal Families and Dynasties?


Today, estates represent an immense potential tax base, yet there is little political will to tap them. This is not some American tradition but in fact a departure from it: As The Economist has noted, America’s early state governments threw out laws that encouraged the accumulation of wealth over generations, following the example Thomas Jefferson set with the Virginia legislature in 1777. They got rid of the English legal precedents of primogeniture and entail—under which titles and property were inherited in their entirety by the oldest male heir—forcing families to divvy up their wealth among more children. Jefferson cited Adam Smith, who called the idea that people should control their estates well beyond their death “manifestly absurd.” Jefferson insisted that “the earth belongs in usufruct to the living.”

Similarly, Alexis de Tocqueville identified the breaking-up of estates as one of the cornerstones of the young country’s success. “What is most important for democracy is not that great fortunes should not exist,” he wrote, “but that great fortunes should not remain in the same hands. In that way there are rich men, but they do not form a class.”

Until actual details emerge of the specific deductions being eliminated then this proposal is simply an enormous unpaid for tax cut.

If there's one thing we know of Congress the past few years is they have the spine to make touch decisions. Yup yup yup

Or people like my family who already had to sell family farms they have inherited just to pay off huge estate tax bills. Yes, I am one who doesn't come from elite, rich families that is very much affected by the estate tax and very much is glad to see it go away.

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I get your and RPB's point in the following post. It still seems to me as opposing private property rights.

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Elections have consequences.

the govt doubled your land values with the idiotic ethanol mandate, so it's all even.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

Except you don't even know what we grow.

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doesn't matter what you grow.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

So wait the debt doesn't matter now?

With farmland the estate tax just puts more money into the hands of fewer people. Family farms have to be sold off to pay for the exorbitant taxes and the mega rich 10,000 plus acre farmers buy them all up as they can outbid anyone.

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Agreed. They should just dump all deductions. The higher standard deduction will reduce the value of the HO deduction anyway. Very few people are going to pay that much in interest expense and local taxes to itemize anyway. Plus the value of itemized deductions is marginal, meaning only the amount over the standard deduction is used. It took me years to explain that concept to my mother who insisted on keeping her mortgage for the "needed" interest deduction. You are paying a dollar in interest to save a few cents on income taxes....

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Hawaii (fuck) You

Hell yes it matters. We should require balanced budgets which forces both sides to prioritize. It's just a slush fund of spending and tax cuts right now.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

who's presidential tax plan did you like last?

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Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

like I said not a fan of the death tax, but the same issues hold for just about any family business. farmers have enjoyed exponential growth in land values. whereas joe blow who ran a tool and die shop in Melrose Park did not.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest