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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 4:28 pm 
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Maybe the wrong guy to deliver a 'blessing' at the new embassy.

PASTOR AT JERUSALEM EMBASSY EVENT SAID JEWS, MORMONS, MUSLIMS GOING TO HELL
The pastor has also come out against the Catholic Church, saying it is following Satan’s path, and said former president US Barack Obama was “paving the way” for the antichrist.


https://www.jpost.com/American-Politics ... ell-556334

OTOH...

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 4:28 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
long time guy wrote:


Straight from the mouth of one of the leading mouthpieces for Israeli propaganda to Ogie's ears apparently.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-gears ... -israelis/

Almost verbatim.

You still have not addressed a single thing said. Go ahead LTG, try.

Also, you are ignoring the fact Hamas openly was calling for the "protesters" to do just that.

LTG, have you said a single constructive thing in this thread?



Yes in fact. What is very apparent is that you take hypocritical positions when it comes to this. You are quite comfortable with Israeli officials providing enforcement "by any means necessary" yet when it comes to American Law Enforcement nothing is ever within reason.
It's hardly hypocritical as Israel is faced with an existential threat to its existence. Once again, what the the goal of Hamas if they were successful in breaching the border? You can't really deny it when they have been so open about it.

This "protest" was about trying to take down Israel's recognized borders, ones which were always recognized going back to the 1940s. Israel had every justification to defend it, especially with direct threats made against several Kibbutzim and moshavim

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Last edited by Ogie Oglethorpe on Mon May 14, 2018 4:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 4:29 pm 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
https://twitter.com/ShaunKing/status/996036625187602432?s=19

I change my mind.

Israel is justified.


Is Roger Federer in harms way?

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 4:33 pm 
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Jbi11s wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
Jbi11s wrote:
The media is never going to make Israel the bad guy.

100% lifetime pass.

Journalists have been very sympathetic to "Palestinian freedom fighters" in the past, but oh well, (((the media)))

I think this incident will confirm that it's past time for Netanyahu to go, but there's simply no ideal solution for these Arabs. Their own country will never be viable, and they'll destroy Israel from within if they're fully integrated. They pretty much have to top out as some kind of protectorate or Bantustan.

THE MEDIA loves Israel.


Because JEWS control THE MEDIA!

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 4:34 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Jbi11s wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
Jbi11s wrote:
The media is never going to make Israel the bad guy.

100% lifetime pass.

Journalists have been very sympathetic to "Palestinian freedom fighters" in the past, but oh well, (((the media)))

I think this incident will confirm that it's past time for Netanyahu to go, but there's simply no ideal solution for these Arabs. Their own country will never be viable, and they'll destroy Israel from within if they're fully integrated. They pretty much have to top out as some kind of protectorate or Bantustan.

THE MEDIA loves Israel.


Because JEWS control THE MEDIA!


AND ANY CRITICISM OF ISRAEL MUST BE DRIPPING IN ANTISEMITISM!!!


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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 4:35 pm 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
long time guy wrote:


Straight from the mouth of one of the leading mouthpieces for Israeli propaganda to Ogie's ears apparently.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-gears ... -israelis/

Almost verbatim.

You still have not addressed a single thing said. Go ahead LTG, try.

Also, you are ignoring the fact Hamas openly was calling for the "protesters" to do just that.

LTG, have you said a single constructive thing in this thread?



Yes in fact. What is very apparent is that you take hypocritical positions when it comes to this. You are quite comfortable with Israeli officials providing enforcement "by any means necessary" yet when it comes to American Law Enforcement nothing is ever within reason.
It's hardly hypocritical as Israel is faced with an existential threat to its existence. Once again, what the the goal of Hamas if they were successful in breaching the border? You can't really deny it when they have been so open about it.


I can separate the average Palestinian from Hamas. Maybe some of the people killed were simply protesting the building of the embassy and not advocating for the "death of Israel".

There is no way of knowing and when you start advocating for the murder of civilians simply because they happen to be protesting then you have a problem.

Not every Palestinian seeks the death of Israel either.

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 4:36 pm 
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Baby McNown wrote:
Saying that murdering Arabs is...ya know... murder is anti-Semitic. You should be ashamed of yourselves.



You know what's anti-Semitic? Looking at all the bad actors in the world and never saying shit about them but seizing upon Israel like a rabid dog at every turn. Or maybe it's something else. Who knows?

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 4:38 pm 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
https://twitter.com/ShaunKing/status/996036625187602432?s=19

I change my mind.

Israel is justified.

How long has the American left been (largely) with the Palestinians? Were they always this way? I really have no idea. And I know many liberals and leftists have diverse points of view, but many do seem to be pro-Palestine as a matter of identity.


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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 4:39 pm 
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I am not following the logic in the law enforcement comparison. Is American police brutality the same as a border issue in a country in the middle east? Moreover, these IDF are military not local police right?

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 4:41 pm 
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tommy wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
https://twitter.com/ShaunKing/status/996036625187602432?s=19

I change my mind.

Israel is justified.

How long has the American left been (largely) with the Palestinians? Were they always this way? I really have no idea. And I know many liberals and leftists have diverse points of view, but many do seem to be pro-Palestine as a matter of identity.


I do not have your answer but I have always wondered about the disconnect in politics here. It appears to me that many Jews are liberal yet as you point out there is this modern thought about this matter that seems different than I remember from my youth.

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 4:44 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
I am not following the logic in the law enforcement comparison. Is American police brutality the same as a border issue in a country in the middle east? Moreover, these IDF are military not local police right?



If you want to make it a military situation i can and it would take all of about 2 seconds to demonstrate how this is a violation of human rights laws.

It is still murder by a state actor. In one instance it is condoned and in the other it is condemned. Ogie's hatred of law enforcement extends well past the police. This falls under the parameters for issues previously discussed by him.

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Last edited by long time guy on Mon May 14, 2018 4:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 4:46 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
pittmike wrote:
I am not following the logic in the law enforcement comparison. Is American police brutality the same as a border issue in a country in the middle east? Moreover, these IDF are military not local police right?



If you want to make it a military situation i can and it would take all of about 2 seconds to demonstrate how this is a violation of human rights laws.

It is still murder by a state actor. In one instance it is condoned and in the other it is condemned. Ogie's hatred of law enforcement extends well past the police. This falls under the parameters of issues previously discussed by him.



I don't want to make it anything but thanks for commenting.

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 4:48 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
long time guy wrote:
pittmike wrote:
I am not following the logic in the law enforcement comparison. Is American police brutality the same as a border issue in a country in the middle east? Moreover, these IDF are military not local police right?



If you want to make it a military situation i can and it would take all of about 2 seconds to demonstrate how this is a violation of human rights laws.

It is still murder by a state actor. In one instance it is condoned and in the other it is condemned. Ogie's hatred of law enforcement extends well past the police. This falls under the parameters of issues previously discussed by him.



I don't want to make it anything but thanks for commenting.



No his hatred pertains to anything which relates to tyranny and oppression as i remember it.

Maybe Brick can elaborate further.

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 4:49 pm 
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How can we justify to the marginalized mountain people of West Virginia the $3 billion in foreign aid we give to Israel each year to keep them as an ally in the Middle East?

I would wager most marginalized people of all races in this country don't really care about the geopolitical friendship we are purchasing each year from Netanyahu and his acolytes.

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 4:50 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
pittmike wrote:
long time guy wrote:
pittmike wrote:
I am not following the logic in the law enforcement comparison. Is American police brutality the same as a border issue in a country in the middle east? Moreover, these IDF are military not local police right?



If you want to make it a military situation i can and it would take all of about 2 seconds to demonstrate how this is a violation of human rights laws.

It is still murder by a state actor. In one instance it is condoned and in the other it is condemned. Ogie's hatred of law enforcement extends well past the police. This falls under the parameters of issues previously discussed by him.



I don't want to make it anything but thanks for commenting.



No his hatred pertains to anything which relates to tyranny and oppression as i remember it.

Maybe Brick can elaborate further.


Yeah Ogie has his points pretty well known.

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 4:52 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Baby McNown wrote:
Saying that murdering Arabs is...ya know... murder is anti-Semitic. You should be ashamed of yourselves.



You know what's anti-Semitic? Looking at all the bad actors in the world and never saying shit about them but seizing upon Israel like a rabid dog at every turn. Or maybe it's something else. Who knows?

It's because the all the bad actors in the world don't have a readymade legion of English-speaking apologists ready to justify absolutely everything they do. As Daniel Davies put it:
Quote:
Consider, reader, a person who is a bit of a nut. His very favourite thing in the world is to have arguments on the internet about the politics and government systems countries he will never visit. There are two issues in the world which he regards as massive injustices which cry out to heaven for redress – the Russian occupation of Chechnya, and the military junta in Burma/Myanmar. He also, broadly, supports the cause of the Palestinians, but this really isn’t much of an issue for him; he’s much better informed and much more concerned about Chechnya and Burma.

So why, when the NSA takes a snoop over this fellow’s online output, does he seem to spend all of his time arguing about Israel and Palestine?

Basically it is for the same reason that this guy plays a lot of poker even though his favourite card game is bezique – because you can always get a game. If you don’t speak Russian or Burmese, then you can condemn the actions of the government of both countries, but it is going to be a short conversation, because very few people are going to argue the other side. If you have an opinion about the government of Yemen, you can excoriate them in the strongest possible terms and still be at the betting shop by the time it opens, but if you get into an argument about Israel/Palestine, you can say goodbye to the morning.

Furthermore, not only can you always “get a game” in the Israel/Palestine conflict, it’s a team sport. There any many injustices and abuses in this horrible old world, but not many of them will provide you with a social life. The political argument over the Middle East, however, will give you an entire set of friends, activities, topics of conversation – nearly all the services which an American college fraternity provides for its members. So you can see why this issue is particularly salient with college students. In my hazy memory of how things went in the 90s, the Israeli side had the better food while the BDS side had the better bands, and both sides were pretty welcoming to freeloaders. Things might have changed but I doubt they have.

So this is my answer to the vexed question of why it is that the State of Israel finds itself singled out for disproportionate criticism compared to all the other unjust governments in the world. The online supporters of the State of Israel don’t understand why their conflict attracts so much attention because they can’t understand, because the reason is, basically, them. There are loads and loads of governments which carry out human rights abuses in the world, but there are really rather few governments who make apologetics for crimes against humanity clearly, in English and conveniently online. Neither are there many organisations in the world who fire rockets at nurseries, but who have a large, well-educated and English-speaking community across the world who are prepared to repeat their propaganda material. The Israel-Palestine conflict is the English Premier League of human rights debates – it might not be the best one, it might be legitimately criticised as predictable and dominated by big money, but it’s the one which has captured the imagination of the world, and if you want to see the best players in action, week in and week out, nowhere else comes close.
I'd add to that the amount of money we send their way in the US probably has a good deal to do with the attention they get as well. This should apply to the Saudis as well, which never really had nearly as many kneejerk apologists in the first place. It seems the prince's PR tour and totally empty symbolic "progressive" gestures have won over a fair amount of the gullible, foreign policy consensus loving media recently so that may be changing.


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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 4:52 pm 
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Jbi11s wrote:
How can we justify to the marginalized mountain people of West Virginia the $3 billion in foreign aid we give to Israel each year to keep them as an ally in the Middle East?

I would wager most marginalized people of all races in this country don't really care about the geopolitical friendship we are purchasing each year from Netanyahu and his acolytes.


That is true of most of our foreign aid though isn't it? Some have varying degrees of thought on that versus isolation etc. I don't think anyone is willing to roll the dice on shutting off Israel especially as they supposedly have nukes.

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 4:53 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
long time guy wrote:


Straight from the mouth of one of the leading mouthpieces for Israeli propaganda to Ogie's ears apparently.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-gears ... -israelis/

Almost verbatim.

You still have not addressed a single thing said. Go ahead LTG, try.

Also, you are ignoring the fact Hamas openly was calling for the "protesters" to do just that.

LTG, have you said a single constructive thing in this thread?



Yes in fact. What is very apparent is that you take hypocritical positions when it comes to this. You are quite comfortable with Israeli officials providing enforcement "by any means necessary" yet when it comes to American Law Enforcement nothing is ever within reason.
It's hardly hypocritical as Israel is faced with an existential threat to its existence. Once again, what the the goal of Hamas if they were successful in breaching the border? You can't really deny it when they have been so open about it.


I can separate the average Palestinian from Hamas. Maybe some of the people killed were simply protesting the building of the embassy and not advocating for the "death of Israel".

There is no way of knowing and when you start advocating for the murder of civilians simply because they happen to be protesting then you have a problem.

Not every Palestinian seeks the death of Israel either.

Yet you ignore that this "protest" is organized by Hamas and not some random event. You ignore the fact Hamas distributed instructions for them to breach the wall and gave them maps to find the nearest communities (it is less than 15 minutes by foot to several)

In the end these aren't civilians who are shot, but rather combatants who enter the closed military zone. Those who stay back and do not attempt to breach the fence are not shot, but those who attempt to do so are rightfully shot, and this is after they have been given very direct and clear warnings that they would be shot.

Those who attempted to breach the fence were not doing so as a form of protest, but as a means of hoping to open up gaps for large numbers to get through and case havoc. The rules of engagement Israel exercised were made clear and those who approached knew what would happen.

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 4:55 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
Jbi11s wrote:
How can we justify to the marginalized mountain people of West Virginia the $3 billion in foreign aid we give to Israel each year to keep them as an ally in the Middle East?

I would wager most marginalized people of all races in this country don't really care about the geopolitical friendship we are purchasing each year from Netanyahu and his acolytes.


That is true of most of our foreign aid though isn't it? Some have varying degrees of thought on that versus isolation etc. I don't think anyone is willing to roll the dice on shutting off Israel especially as they supposedly have nukes.


No one's shutting them out. Nukes aside, it's impossible. We are giving them $38 billion in military aid over a 10 year span.

All I'm saying is average joe and poor joe American couldn't care less about the plight of Israel or Palestine.

It's the apologist army that's most infuriating.

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 4:58 pm 
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Jbi11s wrote:
pittmike wrote:
Jbi11s wrote:
How can we justify to the marginalized mountain people of West Virginia the $3 billion in foreign aid we give to Israel each year to keep them as an ally in the Middle East?

I would wager most marginalized people of all races in this country don't really care about the geopolitical friendship we are purchasing each year from Netanyahu and his acolytes.


That is true of most of our foreign aid though isn't it? Some have varying degrees of thought on that versus isolation etc. I don't think anyone is willing to roll the dice on shutting off Israel especially as they supposedly have nukes.


No one's shutting them out. Nukes aside, it's impossible. We are giving them $38 billion in military aid over a 10 year span.

All I'm saying is average joe and poor joe American couldn't care less about the plight of Israel or Palestine.

It's the apologist army that's most infuriating.


I hear you. I do not have a dog in the fight in terms or ancestry or personal connections. Generally, I side with Israel. Today I am still catching up on this but it does sound pretty Hamas-like to me.

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 4:59 pm 
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Jbi11s wrote:
pittmike wrote:
Jbi11s wrote:
How can we justify to the marginalized mountain people of West Virginia the $3 billion in foreign aid we give to Israel each year to keep them as an ally in the Middle East?

I would wager most marginalized people of all races in this country don't really care about the geopolitical friendship we are purchasing each year from Netanyahu and his acolytes.


That is true of most of our foreign aid though isn't it? Some have varying degrees of thought on that versus isolation etc. I don't think anyone is willing to roll the dice on shutting off Israel especially as they supposedly have nukes.


No one's shutting them out. Nukes aside, it's impossible. We are giving them $38 billion in military aid over a 10 year span.

All I'm saying is average joe and poor joe American couldn't care less about the plight of Israel or Palestine.

It's the apologist army that's most infuriating.

We give them the aid because that is the price of the Camp David Accords. It became a requirement as we told Israel to give up 2/3rds of its then controlled territory to Egypt. In exchange, we would give military aid.

I've made my point in the past clear that I am against this aid because it comes with far too many strings and allows the US to pretty much control Israel. Such strings have prevented them from targeting certain Hamas leaders in the past and even stopped them from getting Soleimani in the last decade. Israel would be better off without such strings and limitations. Heck, without such aid, they could've proceeded with the development of the Lavi, which we forced them to cancel as it would interfere with F-16 sales.

If we could nix the $38 billion over 10 years and free Israel's hand, it would ultimately be better for Israel in the long run.

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Last edited by Ogie Oglethorpe on Mon May 14, 2018 4:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 4:59 pm 
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Jbi11s wrote:
pittmike wrote:
Jbi11s wrote:
How can we justify to the marginalized mountain people of West Virginia the $3 billion in foreign aid we give to Israel each year to keep them as an ally in the Middle East?

I would wager most marginalized people of all races in this country don't really care about the geopolitical friendship we are purchasing each year from Netanyahu and his acolytes.


That is true of most of our foreign aid though isn't it? Some have varying degrees of thought on that versus isolation etc. I don't think anyone is willing to roll the dice on shutting off Israel especially as they supposedly have nukes.


No one's shutting them out. Nukes aside, it's impossible. We are giving them $38 billion in military aid over a 10 year span.

All I'm saying is average joe and poor joe American couldn't care less about the plight of Israel or Palestine.

It's the apologist army that's most infuriating.


The aid that America provides to Israel is really more detrimental to Israel than beneficial. I remember reading that on here.

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 5:02 pm 
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In a sense I can see the detriment if the US is influencing them to use restraint and they want to say screw it and take no prisoners.

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 5:06 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
In a sense I can see the detriment if the US is influencing them to use restraint and they want to say screw it and take no prisoners.

That and it also allows the US to kill indigenous Israeli defense projects which can compete with ones produced by US companies. I cite the case of the IAI Lavi, which probably could've taken a percentage of the F-16 export market

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 5:12 pm 
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I know we all exist in our little thought bubbles and echo chambers nowadays, but I just hope CH knows the plight of Israel is of less and less importance to MANY.

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 5:15 pm 
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Jbi11s wrote:
I know we all exist in our little thought bubbles and echo chambers nowadays, but I just hope CH knows the plight of Israel is of less and less importance to MANY.

That applies to the Arabs as well. In the past they would care about the Palestinians, but after the Syrian Civil War, the Arabs in Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, etc. can't give 2 fucks about the Palestinians. In fact, they're starting to take Israel's side over them.

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 5:16 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Jbi11s wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
Jbi11s wrote:
The media is never going to make Israel the bad guy.

100% lifetime pass.

Journalists have been very sympathetic to "Palestinian freedom fighters" in the past, but oh well, (((the media)))

I think this incident will confirm that it's past time for Netanyahu to go, but there's simply no ideal solution for these Arabs. Their own country will never be viable, and they'll destroy Israel from within if they're fully integrated. They pretty much have to top out as some kind of protectorate or Bantustan.

THE MEDIA loves Israel.


Because JEWS control THE MEDIA!


Such delicate sensibilities.

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 5:18 pm 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Jbi11s wrote:
I know we all exist in our little thought bubbles and echo chambers nowadays, but I just hope CH knows the plight of Israel is of less and less importance to MANY.

That applies to the Arabs as well. In the past they would care about the Palestinians, but after the Syrian Civil War, the Arabs in Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, etc. can't give 2 fucks about the Palestinians. In fact, they're starting to take Israel's side over them.

The plan to systematically remove them completely over time should work out well, in time.

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 5:21 pm 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
pittmike wrote:
In a sense I can see the detriment if the US is influencing them to use restraint and they want to say screw it and take no prisoners.

That and it also allows the US to kill indigenous Israeli defense projects which can compete with ones produced by US companies. I cite the case of the IAI Lavi, which probably could've taken a percentage of the F-16 export market

I mean that's great and all, but it comes off as a major deflection.

"Yeah the $121 billion you've given us since 1948 is appreciated, but it sure hasn't helped that much."

Comes off as a propagandist lie perpetuated by Bibbi clones.

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 5:26 pm 
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Jbi11s wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
pittmike wrote:
In a sense I can see the detriment if the US is influencing them to use restraint and they want to say screw it and take no prisoners.

That and it also allows the US to kill indigenous Israeli defense projects which can compete with ones produced by US companies. I cite the case of the IAI Lavi, which probably could've taken a percentage of the F-16 export market

I mean that's great and all, but it comes off as a major deflection.

"Yeah the $121 billion you've given us since 1948 is appreciated, but it sure hasn't helped that much."

Comes off as a propagandist lie perpetuated by Bibbi clones.

The aid has served as a handicap. Israel literally had top Hamas and Hezbollah leaders in their sights at several junctures only to have the US tie their hand behind their back. Without that aid, Israel still has a robust defense budget and a free hand to operate as needed when they need to extinguish a threat

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