Kids shouldn't have to suffer so that Finnish teachers can still show that they outperform their US counter parts.

And none of these stats addresses deni$'$ still not disproven point that expectations have been lowered for US students.

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It was disproven the minute One Post checked for poverty levels of Finland students actually
And his point regarding poverty being the single biggest factor in educational achievement is perfectly illustrated by Finland and was ignored by both Denis and yourself. And your continued regurgitation of Republican talking points regarding "single parent homes" were also debunked by Finland too whether you know it or not.
Fact of the matter is that "WE" already know that whenever the conversation becomes about money then MANY simply try and change the conversation.
If you want to improve the education system of this country then you first have to change the income level of the parent of the child that is being educated. If you think that you are going to "change outcomes" simply by providing more "rigorous instruction" then you really don't have the first clue about education.

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NO ONE disputes that poverty is the biggest reason for MANY of educational disparities. There is a reason for it here, and in Finland.

And the point about lowered expectations is still one you won't address. Because you know that you have benefitted professionally and monetarily from lowered expectations.

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Apparently we can't teach poor kids.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Sure we can.

Our daughter does quite well at it.

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No. Poor kids cannot be taught. America proves it.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

You have to read the book. Three students were inserted into schools- one in S Korea, one in Poland, and one in Finland. The Finnish school was educating low income, non native speakers, and the students were performing well.

Finland was the best example of a country that moved from where the U.S. is to where top performers are. They made specific decisions in way teachers are educated that resulted in improvements in public education.

And look, none of this directly benefits me. I already made it on a public school education in the Mecca D54 and D211 and and three public IL universities UIUC, UIC, and NIU. My kids were educated wholly in christian private schools.

My concern is for all kids. For the good of this country. So make me a hater, when all I care about is a quality education for all children.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

I read some of the responses and think the same thing. People are saying we suck, as the richest developed country, because of our poor kids.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

Deni$ has also made sure that our daughter's students have food to eat when they can't afford enough themselves.

Haters are gonna hate Deni$.

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Nice of you to say. Happy to help.

If you read my posts on here, I care about education more than any other issue. It is how I escaped poverty.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

"WE" like to pretend that "WE" believe that poor kids can be taught. That is as long as "WE" aren't the ones doing the teaching and interacting with them. "WE' will even move 2 hrs away as a means of providing the necessary insurance in order to guarantee that this will never happen. But hey at least "WE" can always grandstand on a message board as a way of making "us" feel good about ourselves aye?

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Wrong. If you're poor, you can't learn. And besides, what poor kids go to d211? That ridiculous.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

I genuinely believe that you do. But I also believe that you are misinformed about some things too. And no disrespect but the arguments that you make have already been tried and found to be a failure. And in this instance you just illustrated that it was YOU that sought to use education as a tool to escape poverty. That wasn't the work of any teacher who did it for you. You did that yourself.
No matter the school the impetus is always on the child first. When I encounter really good students the first person that gets the praise is the child. Then the parents of the child. And then the teacher. I have taught "good" students and I have also taught bad students. Typically the characteristics are always the same. Good students will seek to find value in education and bad students will not. A teacher can only do so much to help in this regard. It first must come from the child and then their family.

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“I” believe that poor kids can be taught. Finland proved it. Poland proved it. S Korea proved it. Sorry you disagree.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

It’s been shown that setting high standards- setting a floor instead of a ceiling- is the key. That floor is set by parents, teachers, and society. But if you and others want to make excuses for why a certain segment of society cannot compete globally, then there is nothing I can do.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

Poor kids can't learn things. Science says so. Only in crazy foreign lands do poor kids learn. This is not the fault of the people charged with teaching them. It's the fault of their parents income level. If parents don't make money their kids are psychologically incapable of learning. It's science.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

It is never the job of a teacher to motivate an unmotivated student. Thats like, some one else's problem, or something.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

What I clearly stated was that poverty impacts outcomes. And Finland has an extremely low poverty rate which you seem to constantly ignore because it disproves your point. And I also believe that poor kids can be taught too. However I also know that poor children have challenges which your children do not. And if you really didn't believe that poverty impacts education then why did you have your children educated in private schools? Around other mostly affluent children? See its easy to say that you believe this until you check for how it is actually being practiced and find out that you don't.

And even the stuff regarding higher standards is rather fallacious because the typical educator in CPS is actually "more qualified" to teach than that which is found in private education. WE MUST BE STATE CERTIFIED in order to teach whereas they don't have to be and usually are not. Thus it ican't be all about the ",training" since MANY instructors in private education aren't trained.

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If there's a poor kid in your class, just give up on him. There's no point in showing him that you can rise above poverty with an education because they clearly can't learn that concept because they're poor.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Again show me a country that has a 20% poverty rate and achieving at the level which Finland achieves and then I might buy what you're selling. Instead all I see is another person from outside the profession constantly railing against those that are in the profession. The poverty rate alone of the 2 countries illustrates just how they are not really comparable.

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The Finland improvement from the 70’s to today is shown by its comparable countries- Norway, Denmark and Sweden. Those countries perform like us, but are similar to Finland. What makes Finland different is they starting treating teachers like we treat doctors. They let only the best among them into the classroom. In turn they pay teachers like we pay doctors.

If I recall properly, the average U.S. teacher has an ACT score of 19. Doctors are like 32. Both are very important professions. We only treat doctors like such. Finland treats both like such.

You treat my posts like I hate teachers. It is the exact opposite- I want them treated like the most valued profession.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

Ironically a dude that has done everything in his adult life to "give up" on and get away from "poor kids" is now lecturing and condescendingly pontificating about how you shouldn't give up on "poor kids". And too stupid to realize just how much of a hypocrite that he really happens to be about this. Damn dumbass!

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If a mom and dad have a child and make $24,760 the child cannot learn. If the family makes $24,960 the child can learn.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Our country has a much higher median income than China, S Korea, Finland and Poland. We perform like much poorer countries.

The average Canadian performs akin to the richest student in L.A.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

In absolutely no way is a teachers prejudices responsible for whether they give up on a child who is poor or not. This is important.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

It is also true that public students in MA perform among the highest in the world. It is due to reforms in standards that occurred during the Mitt Romney administration.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

I'm going to demonstrate to the world just how much I "value" poor people and their children by moving to the affluent area known as Lakemoor. That will show them that I believe that "WE" are one and the same and that I feel their "pain"

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CPS has a chronic absenteeism rate of 50% how exactly is that the fault of the teachers?

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Some of your info on this stuff doesn't check out. There are a few schools in Massachusetts that perform well but the district as a whole isn't setting the world on fire.

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It's never the teachers job to motivate students and show how important it is to attend school and get an education. Ever. That's like, someone else's problem, man. Teachers should never ever motivate students.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014