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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 8:57 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
Given that 44% of the American voting population identified as "independent" in the most recent Gallup poll, ignoring independent voters would be a grave error for Democratic Party leadership.
Most "independents" still fall in line with one party a majority of the time, just like Bernie did with Democrats.

I doubt many of them were sitting around saying "Well, I like Bernie, but I also like Rubio, I'm not sure who to vote for".


Pushing a neoliberal presidential candidate at a time when neoliberal economic policies have become increasingly unpopular poses a problem for the Democratic Party, especially since many independents are seeking an alternative to those policies AND trump has attacked neoliberalism from the left, thereby potentially appealing to many independents (as recent national polls suggest).

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 9:04 am 
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Tall Midget wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
Given that 44% of the American voting population identified as "independent" in the most recent Gallup poll, ignoring independent voters would be a grave error for Democratic Party leadership.
Most "independents" still fall in line with one party a majority of the time, just like Bernie did with Democrats.

I doubt many of them were sitting around saying "Well, I like Bernie, but I also like Rubio, I'm not sure who to vote for".


Pushing a neoliberal presidential candidate at a time when neoliberal economic policies have become increasingly unpopular poses a problem for the Democratic Party, especially since many independents are seeking an alternative to those policies AND trump has attacked neoliberalism from the left, thereby potentially appealing to many independents (as recent national polls suggest).



Bernie will be campaigning for her in a few months and he'll continue to be a reliable vote.

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 9:05 am 
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Nas wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
Given that 44% of the American voting population identified as "independent" in the most recent Gallup poll, ignoring independent voters would be a grave error for Democratic Party leadership.
Most "independents" still fall in line with one party a majority of the time, just like Bernie did with Democrats.

I doubt many of them were sitting around saying "Well, I like Bernie, but I also like Rubio, I'm not sure who to vote for".


Pushing a neoliberal presidential candidate at a time when neoliberal economic policies have become increasingly unpopular poses a problem for the Democratic Party, especially since many independents are seeking an alternative to those policies AND trump has attacked neoliberalism from the left, thereby potentially appealing to many independents (as recent national polls suggest).



Bernie will be campaigning for her in a few months.


Then his campaign was a farce and he is a loser sellout.


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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 9:07 am 
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Tall Midget wrote:
Pushing a neoliberal presidential candidate at a time when neoliberal economic policies have become increasingly unpopular poses a problem for the Democratic Party, especially since many independents are seeking an alternative to those policies AND trump has attacked neoliberalism from the left, thereby potentially appealing to many independents (as recent national polls suggest).
This type of sentiment has seemed to exist my whole life. I'm skeptical this will result in any major shift.

I probably would have been a Berniebro at the age of 20 too. Now, I'm willing to go as far as calling Obama an average to above average President.

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 9:07 am 
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SomeGuy wrote:

Then his campaign was a farce and he is a loser sellout.


I've been saying that for a while.

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 9:11 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Now, I'm willing to go as far as calling Obama an average to above average President.


What color would you say his hair is now?

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 9:11 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Well, at this time, Obama is a disaster. He presided over the reestablishment of the Soviet Union, Iran bent him over a table and fucked him in the ass, and the gap between the wealthy and the poor has the nation teetering on the brink of revolution. I wouldn't call that "slightly above average", but you have to give it time to play out.
The country is strong. The economy is doing well as compared to almost everyone else including those magical European countries we are always wishing we were like. He doesn't have any major screwups like W did before him.

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 9:12 am 
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leashyourkids wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Now, I'm willing to go as far as calling Obama an average to above average President.


What color would you say his hair is now?
Red.

Am I wrong?

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 9:13 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Now, I'm willing to go as far as calling Obama an average to above average President.


What color would you say his hair is now?
Red.

Am I wrong?


Not if you were blind.

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 9:22 am 
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Nas wrote:
SomeGuy wrote:

Then his campaign was a farce and he is a loser sellout.


I've been saying that for a while.


Seems to be going pretty hard against the Democrats pretty late into the race.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/19/us/po ... itism.html

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 9:24 am 
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RFDC wrote:
Chus wrote:
RFDC wrote:
Quote:
With his win tonight in the State of Oregon along with previous victories throughout the country, Donald J. Trump broke George W. Bush’s record with the most votes won by any Republican Primary Candidate in party history.

George W. Bush won 10.8 million votes in the 2000 Republican primary. Donald Trump has won 11.1 million votes so far this year.


Unless the republicans find a way to steal Florida, which I'm sure they can, Trump will lose, because he will get destroyed in the Latino voting bloc. They made up 8% in '04, 9% in '08, and 10% in '12. You can see where this is headed.

http://www.pewhispanic.org/2012/11/07/l ... -election/

That very well maybe true. But to say that Trump has no shot right now is just silly. Which is what CoF was saying and my posts were in regard to that.


I said he has no shot, unless they steal Florida, or possibly Ohio.

He is going to get killed in the Latino and female voting blocs.

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 9:26 am 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Nas wrote:
SomeGuy wrote:

Then his campaign was a farce and he is a loser sellout.


I've been saying that for a while.


Seems to be going pretty hard against the Democrats pretty late into the race.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/19/us/po ... itism.html


He has. He's a miserable guy. I would expect nothing less. If he doesn't fall in line I will be surprised.

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 9:29 am 
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Chus wrote:
I said he has no shot, unless they steal Florida, or possibly Ohio.

He is going to get killed in the Latino and female voting blocs.


Now that Trump has the nomination he is going to try his same brand of saying whatever people want to hear. And establishment Dems are fairly pathetic themselves: https://www.yahoo.com/news/ex-pa-gov-ed ... 24179.html

Trump is already down playing the wall. Never bet against the stupidity of the American people.

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 9:31 am 
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Nas wrote:
He has. He's a miserable guy. I would expect nothing less. If he doesn't fall in line I will be surprised.


So if he doesn't fall in line he is miserable. If he does he is a sellout. Meanwhile Hilary is taking Goldman checks and bashing anyone who challenges her on it.

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 9:32 am 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Chus wrote:
I said he has no shot, unless they steal Florida, or possibly Ohio.

He is going to get killed in the Latino and female voting blocs.


Now that Trump has the nomination he is going to try his same brand of saying whatever people want to hear. And establishment Dems are fairly pathetic themselves: https://www.yahoo.com/news/ex-pa-gov-ed ... 24179.html

Trump is already down playing the wall. Never bet against the stupidity of the American people.



Isn't that what the experts advise? Play to the fringe during primary and move to the center for general?

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 9:43 am 
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Nas wrote:
Russia has never been weaker


Paper tiger. Their economy is in the toilet.


Nas wrote:
and the Iran deal was as good as they could get.


Exactly. If Iran was/is such a threat, why didn't Bush do anything about them? He dressed like a fighter pilot, including codpiece, called them evil, then invaded Iraq. Destabilizing Iraq, their biggest foe in the region, did more to strengthen Iran than anything Obama has done.

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Last edited by Chus on Thu May 19, 2016 9:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 9:47 am 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Nas wrote:
He has. He's a miserable guy. I would expect nothing less. If he doesn't fall in line I will be surprised.


So if he doesn't fall in line he is miserable. If he does he is a sellout. Meanwhile Hilary is taking Goldman checks and bashing anyone who challenges her on it.


He's not a nice guy. Most people have said as much and you can pick that up watching him. He's always been a reliable Democratic vote and he will fall in line behind Hillary. I'll let you decide if that makes him a sellout.

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 9:54 am 
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Nas wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Nas wrote:
He has. He's a miserable guy. I would expect nothing less. If he doesn't fall in line I will be surprised.


So if he doesn't fall in line he is miserable. If he does he is a sellout. Meanwhile Hilary is taking Goldman checks and bashing anyone who challenges her on it.


He's not a nice guy. Most people have said as much and you can pick that up watching him. He's always been a reliable Democratic vote and he will fall in line behind Hillary. I'll let you decide if that makes him a sellout.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 9:56 am 
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Nas wrote:
He's not a nice guy. Most people have said as much and you can pick that up watching him. He's always been a reliable Democratic vote and he will fall in line behind Hillary. I'll let you decide if that makes him a sellout.


The not nice stuff is getting petty. Not sure where you get your news. Have heard from many people including pilots that have flown her that Hilary Clinton is raging asshole control freak. At the same time, I think it's mostly gossip. So I look at her record to judge her.

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 10:00 am 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Nas wrote:
He's not a nice guy. Most people have said as much and you can pick that up watching him. He's always been a reliable Democratic vote and he will fall in line behind Hillary. I'll let you decide if that makes him a sellout.


The not nice stuff is getting petty. Not sure where you get your news. Have heard from many people including pilots that have flown her that Hilary Clinton is raging asshole control freak. At the same time, I think it's mostly gossip. So I look at her record to judge her.


I don't doubt that Hillary isn't always a very nice person. No one questions if Hillary is a politician or a true believer. We all know that she's a politician.

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 10:00 am 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Nas wrote:
SomeGuy wrote:

Then his campaign was a farce and he is a loser sellout.


I've been saying that for a while.


Seems to be going pretty hard against the Democrats pretty late into the race.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/19/us/po ... itism.html




I like it, keep exposing these phony turds,

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 10:01 am 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Nas wrote:
He's not a nice guy. Most people have said as much and you can pick that up watching him. He's always been a reliable Democratic vote and he will fall in line behind Hillary. I'll let you decide if that makes him a sellout.


The not nice stuff is getting petty. Not sure where you get your news. Have heard from many people including pilots that have flown her that Hilary Clinton is raging asshole control freak. At the same time, I think it's mostly gossip. So I look at her record to judge her.


He doesn't believe what he's writing.

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 10:02 am 
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Nas wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Nas wrote:
He's not a nice guy. Most people have said as much and you can pick that up watching him. He's always been a reliable Democratic vote and he will fall in line behind Hillary. I'll let you decide if that makes him a sellout.


The not nice stuff is getting petty. Not sure where you get your news. Have heard from many people including pilots that have flown her that Hilary Clinton is raging asshole control freak. At the same time, I think it's mostly gossip. So I look at her record to judge her.


I don't doubt that Hillary isn't always a very nice person. No one questions if Hillary is a politician or a true believer. We all know that she's a politician.






You and RR ignored me... I'd like to know how you feel about Obama calling Hillary -" Bush-Cheyney lite".

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 10:03 am 
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312player wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Nas wrote:
SomeGuy wrote:

Then his campaign was a farce and he is a loser sellout.


I've been saying that for a while.


Seems to be going pretty hard against the Democrats pretty late into the race.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/19/us/po ... itism.html




I like it, keep exposing these phony turds,


Yeah but that will make his pivot to support Hillary a little bit more hilarious. Besides AT MOST he would have only gotten 2 more delegates out of Nevada. All of this looks like an attempt by him to get a little more leverage in Philadelphia.

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 10:05 am 
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312player wrote:
Nas wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Nas wrote:
He's not a nice guy. Most people have said as much and you can pick that up watching him. He's always been a reliable Democratic vote and he will fall in line behind Hillary. I'll let you decide if that makes him a sellout.


The not nice stuff is getting petty. Not sure where you get your news. Have heard from many people including pilots that have flown her that Hilary Clinton is raging asshole control freak. At the same time, I think it's mostly gossip. So I look at her record to judge her.


I don't doubt that Hillary isn't always a very nice person. No one questions if Hillary is a politician or a true believer. We all know that she's a politician.






You and RR ignored me... I'd like to know how you feel about Obama calling Hillary -" Bush-Cheyney lite".


When it comes to national defense lite may be too kind. That's the only thing he could have been talking about. As president he really hasn't been much different and in some cases he's been far worse.

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 1:41 pm 
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I agree that we will eventually see Bernie fall in line and support Hillary...and yes, that does make his entire campaign a joke. He doesn't have to support Trump or Hillary, but he will spin it that Trump is the root of all evil and must be kept out of the white house.

Trump is a self-serving bad guy. If elected, he will serve his own agenda. While his agenda isn't ideal, I believe his agenda will have more economic value than Hillary. Doesn't mean I'll vote for him....just how I see it.

Hillary's agenda continues the same pattern of short term band-aid with devastating long-term consequences.

JORR's point on Bill is absolutely spot on. At the time he seemed great....years later we've seen the consequences. BAD.

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 1:42 pm 
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Tall Midget wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
Given that 44% of the American voting population identified as "independent" in the most recent Gallup poll, ignoring independent voters would be a grave error for Democratic Party leadership.
Most "independents" still fall in line with one party a majority of the time, just like Bernie did with Democrats.

I doubt many of them were sitting around saying "Well, I like Bernie, but I also like Rubio, I'm not sure who to vote for".


Pushing a neoliberal presidential candidate at a time when neoliberal economic policies have become increasingly unpopular poses a problem for the Democratic Party, especially since many independents are seeking an alternative to those policies AND trump has attacked neoliberalism from the left, thereby potentially appealing to many independents (as recent national polls suggest).



If independents were truly a political force Sanders would run as an independent. The fact that he hasn't demonstrates that there isn't much traction within the independent movement. Can they act as a spoiler group? yes but that doesn't signify much in the way of shifting political winds since they have acted as spoilers in previous elections.

Republicans arent going to work with Sanders if for no reason than the fact that they diametrically oppose him ideologically. If the democratic party is as center-right as some would have you believe then there isn't anyway they support him either.

Don't doubt that there are some true believers out there but it isn't nearly enough to constitute any sort of revolution.

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 2:01 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
Given that 44% of the American voting population identified as "independent" in the most recent Gallup poll, ignoring independent voters would be a grave error for Democratic Party leadership.
Most "independents" still fall in line with one party a majority of the time, just like Bernie did with Democrats.

I doubt many of them were sitting around saying "Well, I like Bernie, but I also like Rubio, I'm not sure who to vote for".


Pushing a neoliberal presidential candidate at a time when neoliberal economic policies have become increasingly unpopular poses a problem for the Democratic Party, especially since many independents are seeking an alternative to those policies AND trump has attacked neoliberalism from the left, thereby potentially appealing to many independents (as recent national polls suggest).



If independents were truly a political force Sanders would run as an independent. The fact that he hasn't demonstrates that there isn't much traction within the independent movement. Can they act as a spoiler group? yes but that doesn't signify much in the way of shifting political winds since they have acted as spoilers in previous elections.

Republicans arent going to work with Sanders if for no reason than the fact that they diametrically oppose him ideologically. If the democratic party is as center-right as some would have you believe then there isn't anyway they support him either.

Don't doubt that there are some true believers out there but it isn't nearly enough to constitute any sort of revolution.


Independent voters are undeniably a major political constituency, but an independent presidential candidate must paradoxically run within one of the two major parties to properly elevate his or her candidacy within the public eye. Sanders would have received virtually no attention while running as an independent, but he has become a significant electoral factor while aligning himself with the Democratic Party.

Clinton will be able to work with the Republicans simply because she occupies a right wing ideological position on several issues, most notably military intervention and free trade. This "collegiality" is hardly an asset.

I think it's obvious that the Democratic establishment doesn't support Sanders.

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 2:31 pm 
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The fact that she strays from liberal orthodoxy from time to time is actually an asset. The best politicians are those that are able to work across party lines. Sanders will not be able to get any of his proposals passed and his "movement" hasn't been all that significant when you really look at it. Hillary fared much better against Obama than he has against her. Much of his support is arguably a vote against her. It was bound to go to someone and he merely happened to be the lucky guy.

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 Post subject: Re: Bernie Sanders
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 2:37 pm 
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