Again, what? "Humanitarian" interventions occur all the time regardless of how armed or unarmed the citizenry in a given country happens to be.
Which, as I initially said, I have a lot more respect for than these deluded fantasies of our brave gun owners keeping our government in place. "Second Amendment, USA, like it or leave it bitch" really isn't the most compelling rhetoric to use to people who might not already agree with you after a mass shooting however, so I understand why gun people twist themselves into knots about defending against government tyranny and the price we pay for freedom and the like.

You seem to be changing the discussion. There are many conflicts right now where countries are aiding one side or the other who is standing up militarily.
That's just a strawman though. Even here I've only seen it mentioned in the concept of the wording which says militia on it. Can you cite an example of who on here has the "well regulated militia" part as their primary reason for wanting guns to be allowed? To me it is almost always a debate because the gun control people try and use the "well regulated militia" part as a way to call it an outdated amendment, as you did.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

And there are many conflicts where the citizens had no resistance at all or the arms they were using to resist were outlawed by the government, once again limiting the applicability of this argument to what should be legal and illegal in the US.
I haven't said a word about militias or used the word outdated once in this entire discussion. I have pointed out that the notions that gun owners can pose any meaningful resistance to the government under current gun laws and that the state-citizen arms differential today is the least comparable to what it was in the 18th century are complete fantasies.

Some tweet...

Too many people have accepted the normality of mass slaughter as a necessary sacrifice to an amendment written when guns held 1 bullet.

Well, I finally solved why people are still driving 5-10 mph below the speed limit on some of the highways. They haven't looked at the posted speed limits in 2 years.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

What are those conflicts?
So, you don't think the well regulated militia part is outdated given the advances of our military?

Also, who in here thinks the primary reason for gun ownership is to be able to take up arms against the government?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I see the Sheriff keeps talking about what a great job the lvpd did.. This guy shot an obscene amount of people and killed himself.. Correct?

Wtf did the police do?

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http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/03/us/mandal ... index.html

Yeah so much for the narrative that police officers risk their lives to project us



They weren't gonna do shit till some heavily armored SWAT arrived.

Ogie?

That's exactly how I assumed it went, if you are going to pay these guys 100k a year and no accountability.. At least make it mandatory they breach that fucking door immediately and earn that pay once every 3 years.

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To be fair to them, I'm not sure how you'd quickly figure out where the shooter is in a building that large.

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Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

Moving forward, 911 dispatchers should just always say "Suspect is an unarmed black man". That will get them moving.

Sent their thoughts + prayers.

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fock this club. I should manayer.

I'm all for it. Now that speed limits are being raised to reflect modern driving habits and the safest speeds based on years of study, this shouldn't be a problem for anyone. I'll be able to drive fast when I'm at the Autobahn track in Joliet, or Road America up in Wisconsin, and I will be limited to the appropriate, safest speeds while on public roads.

I've made the concession. Now you can too.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

We threw out Cedras from Haiti when there wasn't much armed resistance at all to him. In many other cases, what armed resistance there was would have been ruled illegal by the government in power. The Libyan intervention was framed as being about protecting the citizens against Gaddafi, not a matter of regime change to benefit the rebels who prior to NATO involvement were largely using weapons illegally obtained from the military anyway.

This idea that current gun laws in this country ensure just enough potential citizen resistance in the face of an overreaching government before another country rushes in to save the day seems constructed entirely out of thin air and with no empirical basis whatsoever.

I don't care about debating whether all or part of an 18th century amendment is outdated. I've merely been responding to the logic that the people strenuously arguing against any change to the status quo at all have been presenting.

And it definitely seemed like Ogie and possibly JORR think that gun ownership is preventing tyranny. Hell the former evidently thinks the lack of a 2nd Amendment is one of the primary reasons for what transpired in Catalonia.

They should've known within minutes...the windows were blown out. And supposedly the smoke detector in the room went off (not sure if those are electronically linked to show location though). It is incomprehensible to me how it took TWO HOURS to get into the guy's room. Two hours is a fucking eternity.

Thankfully this was just one guy...imagine a coordinated attack by a few people in various rooms.

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Typical union job it seems.

Been almost two days. Where's the motive? Guy had to leave a note or some shit somewhere.

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Two hours is inexcusable, I agree. Yes the windows were blown out but identifying the room number from a blown out window when looking in from the outside is not always a sure bet. But yeah, that being said, two hours is inexcusable.

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Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

We are aiding, and have aided "rebels" in many other countries, and I won't mention the Revolutionary War since you know, muskets. We likely don't do that on our own without any soldiers there to aid.
You are arguing that it is outdated though because our military is now too strong to matter.

Well, I'm not sure it is the primary reason. Ogie maybe but I'll let him clarify.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I'm not big on conspiracy theories...but yeah..this one is a bit sketchy.

Mike - serious question: why do you think this issue is so partisan (ie GOP loves it)?

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Mr. Trump is unfit for our nation’s highest office.- JD Vance
If you committed violence on that day, obviously, you shouldn’t be pardoned.- JD Vance on the J-6 insurrectionists

Yeah, I'm not satisfied with the information we're receiving.

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this is where you’re wrong. They know exactly how many it affects and who they are likely to vote for.

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Mr. Trump is unfit for our nation’s highest office.- JD Vance
If you committed violence on that day, obviously, you shouldn’t be pardoned.- JD Vance on the J-6 insurrectionists

There was little to no armed resistance in Haiti. And once again, rebels in most cases had arms that were illegally obtained, so why are we using potential resistance as a justification for what's legal or illegal in the here and now in the US?
No, I'm arguing that the idea that citizens can successfully resist our government using currently legal arms is absurd. That could just as well mean that we should be significantly more lenient about what arms private citizens can obtain in keeping with the 2nd Amendment. You just seem to be hemming and hawing about this potential implication though.

I'm not trained in these kinds of tactics, but when you are advancing up a building on an entrenched shooter, wouldn't it be prudent to clear some floors to establish some kind of base point from which to coordinate efforts? No idea how long that would take, though.



Like one wherein a second shooter could approach from behind the responding officers who whisked right up to the first shooter's position?

The point is that we are more likely to get foreign help if we actually have a resistance going, and that has been proven more likely in many conflicts.
Once again, you are stuck on the fact that we would have to be able to win the war for it to matter. Our military could not be beaten by any military force on the planet. There is a reason why those are important to those countries though.

It's just amusing that someone who probably thinks Donald Trump is a fascist is arguing this so strongly. If you don't think Trump is then I apologize.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Two teams, each takes an elevator to the 32 nd floor, each move in on the room from separate directions while 2 guys walk backwards coving the rear... Wtf. It took me 10 seconds to think of that, no excuses..these guys did a shit job.

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BRick got Zeph on the ropes!

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PM me your info, I have a contact in Vegas PD who'd probably like to get advice from a dude on a message board in Chicago who knows how to deal with an active shooter situation in a large hotel better than they do

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Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.