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 Post subject: Re: Vegas bloodbath
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:28 pm 
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Baby McNown wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
DannyB wrote:
I love how uptight gun nuts get (period, but especially) in the days following a mass shooting. The victim card persists despite the fact that the entire federal govt and like 40/50 state governments exist largely to get as many guns into the hands of as many people as possible. You can almost hear the tension over the internets. It's like when Bernstein gets that shrill. high voice when he's fretting about all the insurance claims that might arise out of college kids pulling the goalposts down.



You think it's "gun nuts" who are uptight in the wake of mass shootings? Your queen is tweeting nonsense about silencers. You're really trying to earn your pussy hat, aren't you? #hillaryman

Gun nuts. Ammosexuals. Republicans. Whatever you choose to call them.


Your post proves exactly who is hysterical after things like this happen. DO SOMETHING! I DON'T CARE WHAT! FUCK REPUGS! Maybe you can tweet about how you hope Trump voters died. #Resistance

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 Post subject: Re: Vegas bloodbath
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:31 pm 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
Jaw Breaker wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
312player wrote:
That's exactly how I assumed it went, if you are going to pay these guys 100k a year and no accountability.. At least make it mandatory they breach that fucking door immediately and earn that pay once every 3 years.


To be fair to them, I'm not sure how you'd quickly figure out where the shooter is in a building that large.


They should've known within minutes...the windows were blown out. And supposedly the smoke detector in the room went off (not sure if those are electronically linked to show location though). It is incomprehensible to me how it took TWO HOURS to get into the guy's room. Two hours is a fucking eternity.



I'm not trained in these kinds of tactics, but when you are advancing up a building on an entrenched shooter, wouldn't it be prudent to clear some floors to establish some kind of base point from which to coordinate efforts? No idea how long that would take, though.

Quote:
Thankfully this was just one guy...imagine a coordinated attack by a few people in various rooms.


Like one wherein a second shooter could approach from behind the responding officers who whisked right up to the first shooter's position?


I was thinking more along the lines of three or four shooters setting up in different rooms and then opening fire on the crowd simultaneously.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegas bloodbath
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:37 pm 
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I want to know one thing. There was not one police officer at this concert with all those people in attendance?

The police are acting like they're response was good, but it was not. 20 minutes it took them to locate the shooter. How about going where there was a broken window?


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 Post subject: Re: Vegas bloodbath
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:44 pm 
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This dude took some hits on the gambling side which contributed to this. No doubt about it. Brother stated that he'd stay in Casino hotels 4 months at a time. Big time gambler which means he took big time losses. No doubt about it.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegas bloodbath
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:47 pm 
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Dignified Rube wrote:
I want to know one thing. There was not one police officer at this concert with all those people in attendance?

The police are acting like they're response was good, but it was not. 20 minutes it took them to locate the shooter. How about going where there was a broken window?

First of all a cop died at the scene. Secondly, you are an idiot.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegas bloodbath
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:52 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
This dude took some hits on the gambling side which contributed to this. No doubt about it. Brother stated that he'd stay in Casino hotels 4 months at a time. Big time gambler which means he took big time losses. No doubt about it.


Is this a bit?

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 Post subject: Re: Vegas bloodbath
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:53 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
ZephMarshack wrote:
There was little to no armed resistance in Haiti. And once again, rebels in most cases had arms that were illegally obtained, so why are we using potential resistance as a justification for what's legal or illegal in the here and now in the US?
The point is that we are more likely to get foreign help if we actually have a resistance going, and that has been proven more likely in many conflicts.
The empirical record on this is far more complicated than you suggest, with armed insurgencies in some cases being largely the creation of the intervening force. But beyond this, even in those cases where there's an active resisting force already in place, that force is armed with weapons the state would have judged as illegal, so I am once again forced to ask what relevance this has to the US policy in the here and now.

This is doubly so since so many Second Amendment fans lecture constantly about the inevitability of the black market as undermining any effort to outlaw any new weapon. Yet the existence of that same black market also makes it unlikely that in the event the citizenry did need to arm up against a tyrannical stated they'd be entirely out of options altogether.
Quote:
Once again, you are stuck on the fact that we would have to be able to win the war for it to matter. Our military could not be beaten by any military force on the planet. There is a reason why those are important to those countries though.

It's just amusing that someone who probably thinks Donald Trump is a fascist is arguing this so strongly. If you don't think Trump is then I apologize.
I'm sorry I think justifying the current set of legal guns as vital for protecting us against tyranny means that there should be an empirical reason to believe they can actually do so. The contentless notion of resistance you continue to deploy can be used to justify practically any set of gun laws, from only having potato cannons as legal to having everything up to what the US military enjoys. And comparing militaries to the US citizens bearing arms is once again meaningless since every developed military also has access to weapons that US citizens cannot currently obtain and because foreign clashes are by nature vastly different from domestic ones.

I think Trump has fascistic tendencies but I'm also not foolish enough to believe that any armed resistance on the part of private citizens is likely to do a damn thing about him.


Last edited by ZephMarshack on Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegas bloodbath
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:55 pm 
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ToxicMasculinity wrote:
BRick got Zeph on the ropes!
Image

Good to see you rah-rahing someone else sticking to an argument, especially after you gave up posting non-sequitur after non-sequitur to try to justify current voter ID laws last night.


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 Post subject: Re: Vegas bloodbath
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:58 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
This dude took some hits on the gambling side which contributed to this. No doubt about it. Brother stated that he'd stay in Casino hotels 4 months at a time. Big time gambler which means he took big time losses. No doubt about it.

He should've asked Albert Brooks to get his money back for him.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegas bloodbath
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:58 pm 
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Baby McNown wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
DannyB wrote:
I love how uptight gun nuts get (period, but especially) in the days following a mass shooting. The victim card persists despite the fact that the entire federal govt and like 40/50 state governments exist largely to get as many guns into the hands of as many people as possible. You can almost hear the tension over the internets. It's like when Bernstein gets that shrill. high voice when he's fretting about all the insurance claims that might arise out of college kids pulling the goalposts down.



You think it's "gun nuts" who are uptight in the wake of mass shootings? Your queen is tweeting nonsense about silencers. You're really trying to earn your pussy hat, aren't you? #hillaryman

Gun nuts. Ammosexuals. Republicans. Whatever you choose to call them.


Your post proves exactly who is hysterical after things like this happen. DO SOMETHING! I DON'T CARE WHAT! FUCK REPUGS! Maybe you can tweet about how you hope Trump voters died. #Resistance

I don't think there is a bigger cuck beta pussy than you on this board right now.


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 Post subject: Re: Vegas bloodbath
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:59 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
long time guy wrote:
This dude took some hits on the gambling side which contributed to this. No doubt about it. Brother stated that he'd stay in Casino hotels 4 months at a time. Big time gambler which means he took big time losses. No doubt about it.


Is this a bit?



No it isn't. While people are focusing on the very predictable "mental illness" and gun law angle this dude was clearly a degenerate gambler. If you want to speculate on something that was a leading contributor this would be it. His actions on Sunday were caused by an addiction to gambling.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegas bloodbath
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:00 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
I think most of the Ogie types in the US would not be willing to die for the cause therefore making it all just tough internet talk. If you are not willing to die for the cause, you are not gonna put a real fight against the government.



Things have to get bad enough for people to be willing to die. As BRick pointed out, we're not nearly there in the U.S. But I would say that if BRick can actually envision society breaking down in such a way, the possibility is very real.


This backhanded shot at Rick gets my stamp of approval.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegas bloodbath
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:09 pm 
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It's truly bizarre to me that people think the US government would destroy all of its citizens easily if there was an armed revolution. If I'm being generous, I can only surmise that they haven't really thought too much about it beyond the surface argument of "the government has better weapons, game over"

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 Post subject: Re: Vegas bloodbath
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:10 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
long time guy wrote:
This dude took some hits on the gambling side which contributed to this. No doubt about it. Brother stated that he'd stay in Casino hotels 4 months at a time. Big time gambler which means he took big time losses. No doubt about it.


Is this a bit?



No it isn't. While people are focusing on the very predictable "mental illness" and gun law angle this dude was clearly a degenerate gambler. If you want to speculate on something that was a leading contributor this would be it. His actions on Sunday were caused by an addiction to gambling.


Wouldn't that better explain him massacring the casino, then? If he had massive gambling debts (still liquid enough to wire $100K to the Philippines), why plan out an attack on an outdoor concert? He was also ostensibly enough of a whale to warrant being in the MGM's most exclusive VIP club, so he was rich enough to sustain losing money long enough to get invited to that club, so him losing his shirt and pushing the eject button on life at this exact moment seems far-fetched. Not impossible, just on the outer edges of plausibility.

Outwardly, the guy doesn't fit any mass shooter profile that we've become accustomed to. There's certainly a lot more to learn about his motivations, but based on present evidence this looks like a pretty big turn of his personality. Can brain tumors cause irrational, psychotic stuff like this?


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 Post subject: Re: Vegas bloodbath
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:10 pm 
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I haven't read this whole thread, but I've read enough to say that Libertarians get one thing right that most people in today's age don't... America is based on the idea of protection from government, not protection by government. I'm not a Libertarian, and I believe that government has its place, particularly in economic matters and even more particularly in a modern, global economy... but the entire concept of Western Democracy and the idea that the people are their own rulers has always come at a price... and that price is that your government doesn't (and couldn't anyway) fix everything for you. Life is hard and people are bad, and there is no governing body that will ever change that.

What is the gun death rate in North Korea? If it's lower, is that the type of society we should aim for?

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 Post subject: Re: Vegas bloodbath
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:11 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
long time guy wrote:
This dude took some hits on the gambling side which contributed to this. No doubt about it. Brother stated that he'd stay in Casino hotels 4 months at a time. Big time gambler which means he took big time losses. No doubt about it.


Is this a bit?



No it isn't. While people are focusing on the very predictable "mental illness" and gun law angle this dude was clearly a degenerate gambler. If you want to speculate on something that was a leading contributor this would be it. His actions on Sunday were caused by an addiction to gambling.


If that were the case I'd think he'd want to take out casino personnel instead of random music fans.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegas bloodbath
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:11 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
It's truly bizarre to me that people think the US government would destroy all of its citizens easily if there was an armed revolution. If I'm being generous, I can only surmise that they haven't really thought too much about it beyond the surface argument of "the government has better weapons, game over"


Oh yeah, well how many repugs are gonna be shooting down F-18's with their AR's?


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 Post subject: Re: Vegas bloodbath
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:12 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
long time guy wrote:
This dude took some hits on the gambling side which contributed to this. No doubt about it. Brother stated that he'd stay in Casino hotels 4 months at a time. Big time gambler which means he took big time losses. No doubt about it.


Is this a bit?



No it isn't. While people are focusing on the very predictable "mental illness" and gun law angle this dude was clearly a degenerate gambler. If you want to speculate on something that was a leading contributor this would be it. His actions on Sunday were caused by an addiction to gambling.

Um, the “no doubt about it” stretches the meaning of that phrase. While it’s possible I suppose, the actual circumstances don’t really seem to point that way. Yes he was in a casino hotel and was known to gamble but the rest is a pretty big leap.

Edit: I type too slow. I see others with similar thoughts.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegas bloodbath
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:14 pm 
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Juice's Lecture Notes wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
It's truly bizarre to me that people think the US government would destroy all of its citizens easily if there was an armed revolution. If I'm being generous, I can only surmise that they haven't really thought too much about it beyond the surface argument of "the government has better weapons, game over"


Oh yeah, well how many repugs are gonna be shooting down F-18's with their AR's?

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 Post subject: Re: Vegas bloodbath
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:16 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
I haven't read this whole thread, but I've read enough to say that Libertarians get one thing right that most people in today's age don't... America is based on the idea of protection from government, not protection by government. I'm not a Libertarian, and I believe that government has its place, particularly in economic matters and even more particularly in a modern, global economy... but the entire concept of Western Democracy and the idea that the people are their own rulers has always come at a price... and that price is that your government doesn't (and couldn't anyway) fix everything for you. Life is hard and people are bad, and there is no governing body that will ever change that.

What is the gun death rate in North Korea? If it's lower, is that the type of society we should aim for?
why choose North Korea? The same basis would apply to pretty much every civilized society.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegas bloodbath
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:17 pm 
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ZephMarshack wrote:
ToxicMasculinity wrote:
BRick got Zeph on the ropes!
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Good to see you rah-rahing someone else sticking to an argument, especially after you gave up posting non-sequitur after non-sequitur to try to justify current voter ID laws last night.


CFMB TOS doesn't require me to argue hypotheticals about bums that can't be assed to get an ID

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 Post subject: Re: Vegas bloodbath
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:18 pm 
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Jaw Breaker wrote:
long time guy wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
long time guy wrote:
This dude took some hits on the gambling side which contributed to this. No doubt about it. Brother stated that he'd stay in Casino hotels 4 months at a time. Big time gambler which means he took big time losses. No doubt about it.


Is this a bit?



No it isn't. While people are focusing on the very predictable "mental illness" and gun law angle this dude was clearly a degenerate gambler. If you want to speculate on something that was a leading contributor this would be it. His actions on Sunday were caused by an addiction to gambling.


If that were the case I'd think he'd want to take out casino personnel instead of random music fans.




He'd be shot in the lobby, armed guards everywhere guarding the cash cow.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegas bloodbath
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:20 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
I haven't read this whole thread, but I've read enough to say that Libertarians get one thing right that most people in today's age don't... America is based on the idea of protection from government, not protection by government. I'm not a Libertarian, and I believe that government has its place, particularly in economic matters and even more particularly in a modern, global economy... but the entire concept of Western Democracy and the idea that the people are their own rulers has always come at a price... and that price is that your government doesn't (and couldn't anyway) fix everything for you. Life is hard and people are bad, and there is no governing body that will ever change that.

What is the gun death rate in North Korea? If it's lower, is that the type of society we should aim for?



What's wrong with Australia?

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 Post subject: Re: Vegas bloodbath
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:22 pm 
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312player wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
I haven't read this whole thread, but I've read enough to say that Libertarians get one thing right that most people in today's age don't... America is based on the idea of protection from government, not protection by government. I'm not a Libertarian, and I believe that government has its place, particularly in economic matters and even more particularly in a modern, global economy... but the entire concept of Western Democracy and the idea that the people are their own rulers has always come at a price... and that price is that your government doesn't (and couldn't anyway) fix everything for you. Life is hard and people are bad, and there is no governing body that will ever change that.

What is the gun death rate in North Korea? If it's lower, is that the type of society we should aim for?



What's wrong with Australia?

They don't believe in freedom.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegas bloodbath
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:23 pm 
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Baby McNown wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Baby McNown wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
DannyB wrote:
I love how uptight gun nuts get (period, but especially) in the days following a mass shooting. The victim card persists despite the fact that the entire federal govt and like 40/50 state governments exist largely to get as many guns into the hands of as many people as possible. You can almost hear the tension over the internets. It's like when Bernstein gets that shrill. high voice when he's fretting about all the insurance claims that might arise out of college kids pulling the goalposts down.



You think it's "gun nuts" who are uptight in the wake of mass shootings? Your queen is tweeting nonsense about silencers. You're really trying to earn your pussy hat, aren't you? #hillaryman

Gun nuts. Ammosexuals. Republicans. Whatever you choose to call them.


Your post proves exactly who is hysterical after things like this happen. DO SOMETHING! I DON'T CARE WHAT! FUCK REPUGS! Maybe you can tweet about how you hope Trump voters died. #Resistance

I don't think there is a bigger cuck beta pussy than you on this board right now.


Stop being a white supremacist or I'll ask Seacrest to ban you.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegas bloodbath
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:25 pm 
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Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
pittmike wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
Mike, would your voter ID be issued free of charge when someone registers to vote, or would they have to go to the DMV to get it free of charge, or would it not be free of charge at all?


Free and easy. Much easier then some are claiming a gun card needs to be.

Mike - serious question: why do you think this issue is so partisan (ie GOP loves it)?


Can only answer for myself. I think fairness and law and order. It matters not to me whether there is 100 or 100,000 questionable voters. The partisan argument is pretty well documented as is the gun one.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegas bloodbath
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:26 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
long time guy wrote:
This dude took some hits on the gambling side which contributed to this. No doubt about it. Brother stated that he'd stay in Casino hotels 4 months at a time. Big time gambler which means he took big time losses. No doubt about it.


Is this a bit?



No it isn't. While people are focusing on the very predictable "mental illness" and gun law angle this dude was clearly a degenerate gambler. If you want to speculate on something that was a leading contributor this would be it. His actions on Sunday were caused by an addiction to gambling.


I'm pretty sure I heard someone on TV suggest that as a possibility as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegas bloodbath
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:27 pm 
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312player wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
I haven't read this whole thread, but I've read enough to say that Libertarians get one thing right that most people in today's age don't... America is based on the idea of protection from government, not protection by government. I'm not a Libertarian, and I believe that government has its place, particularly in economic matters and even more particularly in a modern, global economy... but the entire concept of Western Democracy and the idea that the people are their own rulers has always come at a price... and that price is that your government doesn't (and couldn't anyway) fix everything for you. Life is hard and people are bad, and there is no governing body that will ever change that.

What is the gun death rate in North Korea? If it's lower, is that the type of society we should aim for?



What's wrong with Australia?


Nothing. That's not the point.

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 Post subject: Re: Vegas bloodbath
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:27 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
312player wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
I haven't read this whole thread, but I've read enough to say that Libertarians get one thing right that most people in today's age don't... America is based on the idea of protection from government, not protection by government. I'm not a Libertarian, and I believe that government has its place, particularly in economic matters and even more particularly in a modern, global economy... but the entire concept of Western Democracy and the idea that the people are their own rulers has always come at a price... and that price is that your government doesn't (and couldn't anyway) fix everything for you. Life is hard and people are bad, and there is no governing body that will ever change that.

What is the gun death rate in North Korea? If it's lower, is that the type of society we should aim for?



What's wrong with Australia?

They don't believe in freedom.


Their federal and regional governments are biiiig into censorship. No guaranteed freedom of speech in any constitution there, and "hate speech" has both criminal and civil penalties.


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 Post subject: Re: Vegas bloodbath
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:28 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 02, 2011 4:29 pm
Posts: 40942
Location: Everywhere
pizza_Place: giordanos
veganfan21 wrote:
long time guy wrote:
This dude took some hits on the gambling side which contributed to this. No doubt about it. Brother stated that he'd stay in Casino hotels 4 months at a time. Big time gambler which means he took big time losses. No doubt about it.


Is this a bit?


Seems so or he knows the guy.

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