I'm pretty sure there are a lot of Holocaust survivors who might want to kill you for that opinion.

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You're right and that is why I don't get too shitty about certain things. This was a little different because it was collegiate based but I get it completely.

No Gym shoe hoodie and hat policy does keep the bullshit down somewhat. There have been too many incidents to argue otherwise. Places have to stay in business and too many incidents will get them shut down.

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And who determines that?

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Why? Can they also refuse all Germans?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

A DJ is the most important job at any music club. I ran a club for a few years and you HAD TO use our DJ for a private party. If that wasn't OK for people, they were free to go somewhere else. Brand is very important to a club manager that understands the business.

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Well, our government has created special protected groups and sexual orientation is/should be there.

If you classify Nazis as a hate group then there is the argument that they provide a danger to the public at large, but JLN will be here quickly to tell us all that being a Nazi doesn't mean you are a danger as he did in the "Nazi puncher" thread.

We regulate businesses in thousands of ways. "Forcing" them to not have a policy of denying service to all gay people is something they can deal with.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I don't believe that putting it that way is really an accurate characterization. If I remember correctly, the bakers were fined some huge amount for refusing to make a lesbian cake and there was crowd-sourced funding to help pay the fine. I'm reading leash's opinion on the matter and I could see someone like him chipping in to help pay what he believes in an unfair fine all while thinking it's ignorant not to serve the lesbians.

I'll ask you this, Nas. What if you were a doctor and the government ordered you to perform an abortion? It's not exactly the same thing as baking a cake, but I think the basis is close enough for this conversation.

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Freedom is our Strength.

More like burning one.

That's why I didn't trip too much. I saw the same thing happen Friday at Brickhouse Tavern in Wrigleyville. They had an HBCU thing for the Cubs Reds game. After party post Cubs game. They marketed it as an HBCU thing. were scheduled to use a couple of DJs that I know. Once they were about to come on there were technical difficulties all of a sudden. Equipment issues. Could only use the satellite. Little suspicious but hey wasn't anyway to know for sure. I'm sure they got paid for their time at least.

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It was multiple businesses. It became a badge of honor to publicly come out and say you wouldn't serve gays.

It's a silly question. No one is asking a cardiologist or a podiatrist to perform an abortion. There is no need to justify bigotry. If you serve sandwiches at lunch I shouldn't have to go around back to get one. There shouldn't be a separate water fountain for me. If you print flyers you shouldn't deny Don Lemon because he wants one that is promoting the Gay Pride Parade. If you wash cars you shouldn't deny David Duke because he has a KKK and MAGA bumper sticker.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

All due respect to my friends Rick and Nas, you're doing exactly what I complained about in the OP. You are only arguing morality when there's no moral disagreement. No one is justifying bigotry or condoning discrimination. We are simply arguing over whether the government should force people to do business with everyone as a remedy. I don't think they should.

The government forcing some asshole to serve gay people won't make him any less of an asshole.

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I completely get your point and somewhat agree. Let the racist baker, for example, die out as his business suffers because gays as well as right thinking people refuse to do business with him. What do people do in the small rural town where there is only one bakery, cafe, generic company etc?

What it comes down to I guess is what are the classes that need protection no matter what? Race is an easy one. Age and some others. There are certain things humans do that must be accommodated no matter what.

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Elections have consequences.

Let's not pretend that we don't legislate morality.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Maybe. I suppose if you extended it to, say, health care, it would be a different scenario than a cake or something that's not an absolute necessity.

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We do, but we do it very poorly and hypocritically in many circumstances.

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Part of this plays into the recent discussions of gender identity and whether it is a choice or born etc. It is a big deal to be a protected class. In the obvious example you cannot discriminate against a black person and one of the reasons is they are born that way and thus have certain and equal human rights.

A Nazi for a recent example is not born that way and is not afforded all of the protections others are given. The baker or car wash owner does not HAVE to deal with them.

I think by now it is generally accepted that gays are born that way even if I am not sure it is legally written down somewhere in stone. More cloudy is the trans type question in that area. I assume it is important to those people that they are considered to be a protected class the same as race so they cannot be discriminated against ever in any situation.

I lost my train of thought but I think your theory of letting businesses hang themselves gets less acceptance the more clear or accepted the protected class is. How can you allow discrimination to someone that has no choice in what they are?

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Elections have consequences.

Whatever, hippie.

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I'm not arguing morality. I'm arguing what the government can and should do. To operate as a business you have to abide by certain rules. We have determined it is in the public good to keep businesses free of discrimination. The government forces businesses to do thousands of things they may not do if they had a choice. Using the bakery example, they have to get health inspections, keep track of sales and provide that data to the government, operate only in places that are zoned for commercial/retail, and legally hire people. Every one of those is telling a business that they have to behave in a certain way. Why should discrimination against protected groups be any different?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

The better question is why does it matter if they were born that way or if it was a choice? If someone chooses to be gay then why would it suddenly be ok to discriminate against them? Unlike a Nazi, being gay doesn't come from a position of hate and can't be viewed as dangerous to the general public.

Why would we choose to err on the side of discrimination?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I mostly agree with PittMike, but I think the Nazi should be protected too. If they come into your business and they're wearing a shirt or an arm band, but aren't chanting or spewing any hate, they should be served.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

I personally don't think it is ok to discriminate against anyone so I do not have your answer. In fact, it is bad business. My post was simply pointing out that if things were going to go the way Leash mentioned things that are not a choice i.e. race are easier to see the need for general protection.

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Elections have consequences.

That is what I am saying. You can choose to do that. You cannot choose to not serve me because I am white.

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Elections have consequences.

Depends if it involves using an oven.

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

Let's not pretend that Christianity is ambiguous about homosexual behavior then.

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Let's kill them all.

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Uh oh. Seacrest jumping in.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Lies and strawmen won't be of any help to you.

The adults are trying to have a conversation. Run and along and play outside now.

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Seacrest wants an abomination to run rampant on this Earth. He's not enough of a believer to deliver god's message.

Sad.

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Nas, Spaulding, FF, rpb, good dolphin, IMU

That's Brick's bit to pass along lies and misinformation.

Like I said, the kids are waiting outside for you.

MEOW.

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