How is this plan better than Obamacare, or even good? All Republicans plan to do is replace income-based subsidies with age-based tax credits that do nothing to make health-care more affordable. And if you're behind in paying your premiums, they make you pay 30% more to the insurance companies, as if they weren't already taking enough of your money.

What a turd this legislation is. Republicans had eight years to come up with something, and they have nothing to show for this time. This is not leadership, rather this is giving the middle-class and poor the shaft even more.

Disagree.

The poor need to pay their fair share.

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I'm not sure. They have to pass it to know what's in it.

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Elections have consequences.

The tax break is probably better but it needs to be changed to have a bigger impact with lower income people along with improvements to Medicaid.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Isn't part of the Bill's purpose to undermine Medicaid?

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None of it fucking matters. Obamacare sucked, this bill sucked, what we had before Obamacare sucked. I'm a fiscal conservative all the way, but the only solution for healthcare is "single payer" until then it will be the same stupid shit/back and forth.

(When I say single payer, I mean for catastrophic medical events, like Mark Cuban's proposal)

Medicaid is very poorly designed because it underpays providers on the backs of private insurance. That is why so many providers do not accept new Medicaid patients. This entire system is ripe for a collapse. It's already consuming twice as much GDP as any other developed country with in many cases poorer outcomes. Tying health insurance to employment makes no sense.

Since the entire system is a hodgepodge of poorly designed ways to cover people, it is very difficult to come up with a solution that addresses all the issues.

If we're going to keep going on this path, I would prefer they just fully block grant Medicaid to each state and let them come up with creative solutions to covering the poor population.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

The article I read this morning stated that the GOP plan reduces the number of insured by 1 million more than if they had simply repealed everything straight up.

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Well obviously.

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

Thanks for the insight.

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Well ultimately I think the goal is to have "Obamacare" no longer exist and to stem the tide of government reliance on healthcare which is very difficult to get rid of once it is there.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Sounds like they are really fucking over age group that is in their 50's 60's, "the not ready for Medicare" group

We could do what everyone else does.

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I wouldn't say Medicaid is poorly designed. It's just the government screwing things up with the answer being "Let the government do more screwing up!". I don't think most people realize that the government is more responsible for our healthcare mess than anyone. They are the largest payer already and they are terrible at it.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

The problem is that the medical providers in this country would have to take a drastic pay cut, and that's not happening.

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They are "purposely" terrible at it because they prioritize the well being of the big insurance companies over both the patients and the providers.

Underscoring your last point, I always cringe when someone touts that Medicare/Medicaid has lower administrative costs than private insurers. What they fail to point out is that private insurers go to great lengths to combat fraud (perhaps too far), whereas abuse in Medicare/Medicaid goes largely undetected.

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That just isn't true. Medicaid payments are horrible. Doctors and hospitals would literally be shutting down nationwide if that was their sole source of income. That doesn't do anyone good besides the politicians who prioritize other spending over healthcare. There is no reason to believe that if everyone was forced to use it that they wouldn't do the same. Hey look, we just started another war! How do we pay for it? Cut payouts for healthcare!

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I see what CH is saying. And in my mind it probably is the only way to fix it right once it is agreed that it is a right to be provided. My problem is that some fail to admit there are issues with single payer as well. Even if it is the best we can do it is not perfect. I think some people are hesitant to look at that or admit imperfections because it is usually discussed in a antagonistic way versus Obamacare for example.

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Elections have consequences.

In this vein this is where care starts to suffer and there are less providers and fewer awesome providers, hospitals, clinics etc. It is not some magic want to jump to single payer. Do not forget the lawyers too. What to do with them.

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Elections have consequences.

There is no perfect system. No Briton, Canadian, or Norwegian would say they have a perfect system, but I'm sure they would agree that it's the least worst.

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The problem is that "single payer" is not even significantly better than our current system. Ironically, many of the single payer systems are looking towards moving closer to a system like ours. A hybrid system that combines the positives the government can provide while also leveraging the logical advantages of "for profit" systems is best.

On another note, I often wonder if the "single payer" folks would also support a "single payer" food payment system where the government is the one who pays for and decides what food you will get and how you can get it. Food is more important than healthcare since I can go years without healthcare but I would struggle to make it more than a few weeks without food. Just think about how better it would be if we took "profit motive" out of food!

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

The British and Canadian systems are only marginally better than us, and most of the differences have to do with Americans lifestyle choices as much as anything.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

If your wife and your lawyer were drowning and you had to choose, would you go to lunch or to the cinema?

To be clear, I advocated for a single payer system for the high risk pools/costs and private for basic appointements, etc. Cubans plan, I thought you said that was a good plan in another thread?

You are preaching to the choir as far as I am concerned. I am just having a little discussion without all the other crap, so far.

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Elections have consequences.

The Cuban plan really shouldn't be called "single payer" since there wouldn't be just one payer.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

The difference is that we know pretty much how much food any given person needs to survive...let's say 2,000 calories per day, for x dollars. In health care, we can't agree on how much treatment people deserve outside of absolutes (i.e., having a heart attack, you get treated no matter what). Should an 80-year old be given cancer treatments? Should a drug user be given a $100k hepatitis drug? Should women be given free birth control (with no co-pays or deductibles) yet men have to pay for vasectomies? I'd say no to all of those, but someone may say yes to all of them.

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Sounds like food would be even easier than healthcare!

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!