This is kind of a big deal...

http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/04/middleeas ... index.html

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't there a "deal" that was supposed to have disposed of all of these a few years ago? I guess we should trust the Iran deal as well since it has similar guarantees.

This specific chemical attack was followed by a bombing of the hospital treating the victims. If you're on Twitter, the @conflicts account is a fantastic source for vetted news on the subject.

I wouldn't say we should get involved with bombing Assad directly (we are risking a shooting war with Russia by doing that) but I honestly have to say this deserves some reaction. What precisely, I'm not sure of.

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“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson

Thanks Obama.

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This is why they hate America.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

he really fucked up that situation badly. The red line comment was stupid. Assad knowingly crossed it forcing Obama to act when he did not have the political capital to do so. That forced Obama to take an awful deal that Putin had engineered that was supposed to have disposed of the chemical weapons, but of course with no enforcement or inspections. That of course led us to today.

This leads us to an important question, how can we really trust the Iranian nuclear deal? It has very weak enforcement and was also a deal signed out of weakness in the West where we wanted a deal so badly we would sign just about anything.

I honestly will not be surprised if France acts upon this in Syria. Hollande is making some strong statements today. They were ready to go in 2013, but didn't after the US and UK backed out. They may go alone here or may go with UK support

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“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson

Boris Johnson is making some strong statements as well. I would not be surprised if the UK and France take some sort of action against Assad (likely in one of their coastal protected enclaves like Latakia)

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“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson

Don't worry. Someone will be along shortly to defend him and blame someone else.

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Elections have consequences.

Not bombing Syria was the correct move then. However, not making the red line comment in the first place wouldn't have put us in a precarious situation where we basically needed Putin to come in and force a horrible deal in order for the US to have the illusion of saving face.

In all honest, the rebuke in the rebuke in the House of Commons is what really put the damper on any action as the US wasn't going to go without the UK and France wasn't going to go without the US. The red line set by Obama was one he did not have the political capital to back up.

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“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson

Wake me up when you show similar concern for Iraqi civilians our leadership convinced to stay home and then bombed 200 to their deaths.

Or the dozens of Yemenis Cheetolini had executed over dinner.

Or the American troops quietly sent over there to help escalate the quagmire. And provide a political distraction.

Or that our middle eastern policy is being formulated by sophmoric appointees brought forth by nepotism or campaign donations.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

You realize the 200 in Mosul is largely due to human shields and buildings rigged to set off large secondary explosions after they lure an attack.

You can condemn civilian casualties in war, but if you're not going to attribute those to ISIS because you'd rather attack our awful (and yes he is awful President) then piss off as you're giving a pass to ISIS to push your own political views and that's pretty despicable.

200 dead in Mosul is tragic, but ISIS bears the responsibility for it.

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“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson

Why were you asleep for Obama doing incredibly similar things throughout his 8 years in office?

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Elections have consequences.

It's interesting to me that chemical weapons are some line in the sand. Bomb, starve and shoot children fine. Kill them with chemicals-- too far.

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Why are only 14 percent of black CPS 11th-graders proficient in English?

it's because chemical weapons fall under the WMD category (which would be NBC: Nuclear, Biological, Chemical)

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“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson

I would consider a bomb a weapon of mass destruction as well.

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Why are only 14 percent of black CPS 11th-graders proficient in English?

I agree with you and would personally only put nuclear and maybe some extreme bio weapons into the category, but for purposes of international politics, these are considered by all parties to be WMD.

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“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson

I think that's for a few reasons:

1. Death by chemical inhalation is believed to be incredibly cruel and agonizing, which fact can be exacerbated by the compounds creating the deadly gas mixed in improper proportions.

2. There is serious risk of collateral damage (for the kind of damage, see #1), because once exposed in an area there is no ability to exert control over the path of a deadly plume of chemicals.

3. If the gas doesn't kill you, it will more than likely severely fuck you up. If you get shot and don't die, you have a decent chance of living some semblance of a normal life after you heal, but those chances are greatly diminished when inhaling toxic chemicals meant to kill.

It's all part of the incredibly odd calculus of battle, where the surety of death caused by a bullet to the brain stem of a child is, kinda, "better" than the same child being permanently disfigured by a mustard gas cloud.

Totally get what you are saying. Funny that you post this around the same time that this went up: http://highline.huffingtonpost.com/arti ... ry-crisis/

If Russia owns our government why would they want to go to war with us?

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Why are only 14 percent of black CPS 11th-graders proficient in English?

Could say almost all of the same things about bombings, which cause smoke inhalation, burns and all kinds of collateral damage.

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Why are only 14 percent of black CPS 11th-graders proficient in English?

And if he didn't bomb or threaten action he would be criticized by the right wing for being a pacifist. It's time to stop living in the past.

I was against our continuing involvement then and view this as nothing more than a more amoral and infinitely more dangerous stunt like Grenada. A cynical ploy for solely political purposes

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

I would say one thing to further Juice's point. Chemical weapons were used in WWI. As awful as the fighting in WWII got, neither side used them there. The reason was that there was an understanding from the generals (who had all pretty much been infantry in WWI) that the effects were so awful that they would not deploy them as a chemical attack by one side would've certainly led to a chemical attack by the other.

It's kind of interesting, but the US was so worried that chemical weapons would be used that scientists did study forms of mustard gas in the early 40s to see if they could study its effects. They observed that it could clean a bone marrow out of white blood cells. This observation led to the discovery of ant foliates and the first generation of chemotherapy to treat leukemia. The drug used was aminopterin. It was not very effective, but it did lead to more effective drugs that gave a disease with a nearly 0% cure rate in 1940 an 85-90% cure rate today.

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“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson

I completely agree involving ourselves militarily then or now would be foolish. However, our involvement wouldn't have been a question in 2013 without the stupid red line comment.

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“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson

I guess we are leaving out the * for the Germans gassing 6 million Jews.

I was against it in 2013. Granted I was living in Israel at the time and there was strong likelihood that Assad would fire on Tel Aviv as Saddam did in 1991 so I had a vested interest in the US not following through on Obama's idiotic red line comment. I was even to the point in early September that half of us were bring our gas masks with us on the bus for commuting to and from work.

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“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson

I'm a Jew so you really want to go there?

I'm speaking of on the battlefront as in WWI. Neither side was going to use chemical weapons in battle after having seen their effects in the trenches. It is a historical fact that both sides had an agreement on chemical weapons in WWII via back channels

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“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson

But gas was used in WW2. That's a fact.

not on the battle front between armies where such an attack would've drawn a response in kind. They had no problem lobbing incendiary bombs, rockets, etc. at each other, but chemical weapons were a line neither side would cross.

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“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson

I'm sorry PittMike. Trump is sitting in the big chair so this is his fault. Your team's rules not mine.

Hell in WW1 they had fucking Christmas parties