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Interesting take by Jeff Flake
https://mail.chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=107720
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Author:  Zippy-The-Pinhead [ Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Interesting take by Jeff Flake

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/07/31/my-party-is-in-denial-about-donald-trump-215442

Author:  KDdidit [ Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting take by Jeff Flake

Sounds like a "Conservatism can only be failed" thriller.

Author:  redskingreg [ Mon Jul 31, 2017 9:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting take by Jeff Flake

I was hoping this was about the former ECU QB. I have his Bengals jersey somewhere.

Author:  Nas [ Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting take by Jeff Flake

Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:


Should be in the shout out section.

Author:  Regular Reader [ Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting take by Jeff Flake

It sounds like the guy doesn't recognize the damage he himself has really done.

But is taking the traditional Paul family position of finger pointing like a government witness for profit and self aggrandizement

Author:  denisdman [ Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting take by Jeff Flake

Nas wrote:


Yeap, I have said it many times that today's Republicans are not Conservatives. They do not stand for fiscal balance, free trade, small government, etc. They hated Hillary enough to swallow their values and vote for Trump, but that was a deal with the devil.

Author:  Curious Hair [ Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting take by Jeff Flake

Quote:
So, where should Republicans go from here? First, we shouldn’t hesitate to speak out if the president “plays to the base” in ways that damage the Republican Party’s ability to grow and speak to a larger audience. Second, Republicans need to take the long view when it comes to issues like free trade: Populist and protectionist policies might play well in the short term, but they handicap the country in the long term. Third, Republicans need to stand up for institutions and prerogatives, like the Senate filibuster, that have served us well for more than two centuries.


STEP 1: #notallmen
STEP 2: Keep destroying vast sections of the country and turning them into desolate wastelands of opioid/meth abuse
STEP 3: Let the Senate stall

Author:  rogers park bryan [ Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting take by Jeff Flake

Image

Author:  Nas [ Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting take by Jeff Flake

denisdman wrote:
Nas wrote:


Yeap, I have said it many times that today's Republicans are not Conservatives. They do not stand for fiscal balance, free trade, small government, etc. They hated Hillary enough to swallow their values and vote for Trump, but that was a deal with the devil.


It wasn't just about republicans though.

Author:  Caller Bob [ Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting take by Jeff Flake

redskingreg wrote:
I was hoping this was about the former ECU QB. I have his Bengals jersey somewhere.


Pretty sure you are thinking about Akiki Smith.

Author:  Nas [ Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting take by Jeff Flake

If by 2017 the conservative bargain was to go along for the very bumpy ride because with congressional hegemony and the White House we had the numbers to achieve some long-held policy goals—even as we put at risk our institutions and our values—then it was a very real question whether any such policy victories wouldn’t be Pyrrhic ones. If this was our Faustian bargain, then it was not worth it. If ultimately our principles were so malleable as to no longer be principles, then what was the point of political victories in the first place?

Author:  hnd [ Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting take by Jeff Flake

as bad as the left and right are, sometimes i think moderates (probably me) are even worse.

Author:  Nas [ Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting take by Jeff Flake

hnd wrote:
as bad as the left and right are, sometimes i think moderates (probably me) are even worse.


Why?

Author:  Caller Bob [ Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting take by Jeff Flake

hnd wrote:
as bad as the left and right are, sometimes i think moderates (probably me) are even worse.

weird take

Author:  Nas [ Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting take by Jeff Flake

This is what he's talking about.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/gop-lawmaker ... itics.html

Author:  Nas [ Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting take by Jeff Flake

Caller Bob wrote:
hnd wrote:
as bad as the left and right are, sometimes i think moderates (probably me) are even worse.

weird take


I would probably kill for a moderate.

Author:  Curious Hair [ Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting take by Jeff Flake

Nas wrote:
hnd wrote:
as bad as the left and right are, sometimes i think moderates (probably me) are even worse.


Why?

Image

Author:  hnd [ Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting take by Jeff Flake

too wishy washy. many moderates are easily swayed and will betray you at a moments notice. many moderates aren't moderate they are just apathetic. I'm not saying all moderates. I believe you can be moderate and principled and stick to those principals but i think the "moniker" has been taken over by easily swayed emotional beings who are more interested in "reaching out" to the other side than actually doing what they believe in. Its just too easy to be i don't like any party than to defend your beliefs that people run to the middle.

i didn't mean to make it an all encompassing broad generalization.

Author:  Curious Hair [ Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting take by Jeff Flake

Yeah, anyone who says "both sides are bad, we should borrow the best parts from both!" has the intelligence of a golden retriever, which as far as animals go is, fittingly, moderate, but nothing I'd put any great deal of faith in.

Author:  Nas [ Tue Aug 01, 2017 11:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting take by Jeff Flake

What's wrong with pragmatism? What world do we live where people believe that they should get 100% of what they want? Stomping your feet and demanding that you get your way isn't principled. It's just being a fucking brat. Making progress is what's important.

I blame idiot parents for making kids believe they should get whatever they want.

Author:  leashyourkids [ Tue Aug 01, 2017 11:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting take by Jeff Flake

Everyone on Earth claims to be socially liberal and fiscally conservative, and yet we have a bloated welfare state with out of control spending on all fronts and (some) archaic social policies.

Author:  Regular Reader [ Tue Aug 01, 2017 11:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting take by Jeff Flake

Nas wrote:
What's wrong with pragmatism? What world do we live where people believe that they should get 100% of what they want? Stomping your feet and demanding that you get your way isn't principled. It's just being a fucking brat. Making progress is what's important.

I blame idiot parents for making kids believe they should get whatever they want.


Quite frankly MANY (& I am excluding posters in this thread) took from the civil rights & abortion rights battles only that those were incremental little defeats that led them down a slippery slope down to a bigger L and have vowed to fight everything after that tooth and nail, no matter how hysterical it makes them appear.

Of course, the lesson learned also led to pushing conservatives into offices slowly and methodically at the grass roots levels, which has been an absolute success for the conservative movement.

Author:  long time guy [ Tue Aug 01, 2017 11:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting take by Jeff Flake

Curious Hair wrote:
Yeah, anyone who says "both sides are bad, we should borrow the best parts from both!" has the intelligence of a golden retriever, which as far as animals go is, fittingly, moderate, but nothing I'd put any great deal of faith in.



WYC? That was Trump's and Bernie's message in a nutshell and the vast majority believed it to be great for the country.

Couple that with the Independents and Libertarians and you will have one big smorgasbord of political idealism.

Author:  pittmike [ Tue Aug 01, 2017 11:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting take by Jeff Flake

leashyourkids wrote:
Everyone on Earth claims to be socially liberal and fiscally conservative, and yet we have a bloated welfare state with out of control spending on all fronts and (some) archaic social policies.



Hmmm. :lol:

Author:  Curious Hair [ Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting take by Jeff Flake

Nas wrote:
What's wrong with pragmatism? What world do we live where people believe that they should get 100% of what they want?

Believing isn't receiving. Of course you should want the most you can get.

Author:  Nas [ Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting take by Jeff Flake

Curious Hair wrote:
Nas wrote:
What's wrong with pragmatism? What world do we live where people believe that they should get 100% of what they want?

Believing isn't receiving. Of course you should want the most you can get.


That's not true. People aren't trying to get the best deal possible. I have no problem with that. Folks are saying no to 95% and claiming they're taking a principled stand. There is nothing principled about that.

Author:  Brick [ Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting take by Jeff Flake

Curious Hair wrote:
Yeah, anyone who says "both sides are bad, we should borrow the best parts from both!" has the intelligence of a golden retriever, which as far as animals go is, fittingly, moderate, but nothing I'd put any great deal of faith in.
As compared to what, blindly following the Bernie Sanders agenda?

There is nothing wrong with thinking both sides have some solid points. I'll even admit that the Republicans in general have worse ideas mostly having to do with social issues that they still cling to for dumb but politically understandable reasons but I would NEVER want to live in a society where the ideas are all created by the liberal party.

Author:  Curious Hair [ Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting take by Jeff Flake

Nas wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
Nas wrote:
What's wrong with pragmatism? What world do we live where people believe that they should get 100% of what they want?

Believing isn't receiving. Of course you should want the most you can get.


That's not true. People aren't trying to get the best deal possible. I have no problem with that. Folks are saying no to 95% and claiming they're taking a principled stand. There is nothing principled about that.

Well, no, Republicans demanding everything and settling for nothing less is wrong. I take issue with how the Obama administration/congressional Dems negotiated against themselves, thinking it could be so pragmatic and reasonable on its own that Republicans would stand in awe of their pragmatism and compromise and agree to everything straight-up and not just, you know, call Obama the n-word and hide in a bunker.

I think Bernie had the right idea in asking for everything and taking what he could get.

Author:  hnd [ Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting take by Jeff Flake

pragmatism to the extreme puts all solutions on equal footing. most extreme pragmatists i know have the attitude of "whatever works for you" but thats not always the best. science can't compete with extreme pragmatism.

Author:  Nas [ Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Interesting take by Jeff Flake

Curious Hair wrote:
Nas wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
Nas wrote:
What's wrong with pragmatism? What world do we live where people believe that they should get 100% of what they want?

Believing isn't receiving. Of course you should want the most you can get.


That's not true. People aren't trying to get the best deal possible. I have no problem with that. Folks are saying no to 95% and claiming they're taking a principled stand. There is nothing principled about that.

Well, no, Republicans demanding everything and settling for nothing less is wrong. I take issue with how the Obama administration/congressional Dems negotiated against themselves, thinking it could be so pragmatic and reasonable on its own that Republicans would stand in awe of their pragmatism and compromise and agree to everything straight-up and not just, you know, call Obama the n-word and hide in a bunker.

I think Bernie had the right idea in asking for everything and taking what he could get.


Well yeah Obama negotiated like an idiot. I have no problem with him being willing to make a deal though.

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