Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Still not the worst Jerry related thing in Pennsylvania history.
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| Pennsylvania Gerrymandering https://mail.chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=110965 |
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| Author: | beni hanna [ Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Pennsylvania Gerrymandering |
Really good article discussing how gerrymandering was exposed and to some degree how it affected PA voters. It is a little geeky, but good stuff in there. THE GEEKS WHO PUT A STOP TO PENNSYLVANIA'S PARTISAN GERRYMANDERING https://www.wired.com/story/pennsylvania-partisan-gerrymandering-experts/ Will be interesting to watch this unfold as the Republicans stand to lose a decent number of seats. |
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| Author: | Caller Bob [ Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pennsylvania Gerrymandering |
TrumpKin wrote: The Democratic Party can't get votes from actual eligible voters so they have to look elsewhere.
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| Author: | Brick [ Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pennsylvania Gerrymandering |
Still not the worst Jerry related thing in Pennsylvania history. |
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| Author: | Terry's Peeps [ Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pennsylvania Gerrymandering |
Boilermaker Rick wrote: Still not the worst Jerry related thing in Pennsylvania history.
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| Author: | Caller Bob [ Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pennsylvania Gerrymandering |
Terry's Peeps wrote: Boilermaker Rick wrote: Still not the worst Jerry related thing in Pennsylvania history. You can't spell Gerrymandering without 'Gerry' and 'Man'. |
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| Author: | Big Chicagoan [ Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pennsylvania Gerrymandering |
Wish they would outlaw gerrymandering in Illinois. |
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| Author: | Ogie Oglethorpe [ Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pennsylvania Gerrymandering |
Big Chicagoan wrote: Wish they would outlaw gerrymandering in Illinois. Gerrymandering is 100% allowed when it's done by people you politically agree with |
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| Author: | beni hanna [ Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pennsylvania Gerrymandering |
Big Chicagoan wrote: Wish they would outlaw gerrymandering in Illinois. What I found interesting about the article is one could technically apply the same approach to just about any municipality/state and determine if a problem exists. I don't know what organization would go to court in this city/state and have a chance of winning. If they did win, let's talk about getting the case through the appeals process. Just don't see it happening. |
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| Author: | Kirkwood [ Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pennsylvania Gerrymandering |
Big Chicagoan wrote: Wish they would outlaw gerrymandering in Illinois. Chicago's ward map is something else
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| Author: | pittmike [ Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pennsylvania Gerrymandering |
beni hanna wrote: Big Chicagoan wrote: Wish they would outlaw gerrymandering in Illinois. What I found interesting about the article is one could technically apply the same approach to just about any municipality/state and determine if a problem exists. I don't know what organization would go to court in this city/state and have a chance of winning. If they did win, let's talk about getting the case through the appeals process. Just don't see it happening. Yeah the other article I read on this today said the people appealing (Republicans) are doing so because the state supreme court should not be involved at all. Basically, my read was this is a blue print to revamp districts via the courts which usually does not happen. Anyway, at first glance the maps appear to be more normal than the usually gerrymandered crazy ass line drawing all over the place. Supposedly, the court used a Stanford law professor to come up with it. |
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| Author: | KDdidit [ Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pennsylvania Gerrymandering |
As a member of Illinios' 4th district I don't know what anyone is talking about. However with Gutierrez retiring I can now vote for CHUY! CHUY CHUY! 
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| Author: | Caller Bob [ Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pennsylvania Gerrymandering |
KDdidit wrote: As a member of Illinios' 4th district I don't know what anyone is talking about. However with Gutierrez retiring I can now vote for CHUY! CHUY CHUY! Shout out to Stickney! |
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| Author: | JORR [ Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pennsylvania Gerrymandering |
Caller Bob wrote: TrumpKin wrote: The Democratic Party can't get votes from actual eligible voters so they have to look elsewhere. 
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| Author: | beni hanna [ Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pennsylvania Gerrymandering |
pittmike wrote: beni hanna wrote: Big Chicagoan wrote: Wish they would outlaw gerrymandering in Illinois. What I found interesting about the article is one could technically apply the same approach to just about any municipality/state and determine if a problem exists. I don't know what organization would go to court in this city/state and have a chance of winning. If they did win, let's talk about getting the case through the appeals process. Just don't see it happening. Yeah the other article I read on this today said the people appealing (Republicans) are doing so because the state supreme court should not be involved at all. Basically, my read was this is a blue print to revamp districts via the courts which usually does not happen. Anyway, at first glance the maps appear to be more normal than the usually gerrymandered crazy ass line drawing all over the place. Supposedly, the court used a Stanford law professor to come up with it. This article is more about determining gerrymandering exists, and it impacts voters ability to have a say in government. Your points regarding WHO should generate the map is valid, but not part of this article. In this instance, the folks statistically showed that any change to the existing map would negatively impact Republican outcomes. It was perfectly drawn for the betterment of one party. That should not happen. At this point, it doesn't matter who creates any kind of map for PA. It will be more balanced than what is in place. What is sad is who should create the map? If you allow pols to do it, you end up with a similar outcome. It is not a judges job either. What non partisan group would be put in place to create the boundaries? |
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| Author: | Caller Bob [ Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pennsylvania Gerrymandering |
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: Caller Bob wrote: TrumpKin wrote: The Democratic Party can't get votes from actual eligible voters so they have to look elsewhere. Didn't stop MY GUY Bruce 
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| Author: | Regular Reader [ Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pennsylvania Gerrymandering |
beni hanna wrote: pittmike wrote: beni hanna wrote: Big Chicagoan wrote: Wish they would outlaw gerrymandering in Illinois. What I found interesting about the article is one could technically apply the same approach to just about any municipality/state and determine if a problem exists. I don't know what organization would go to court in this city/state and have a chance of winning. If they did win, let's talk about getting the case through the appeals process. Just don't see it happening. Yeah the other article I read on this today said the people appealing (Republicans) are doing so because the state supreme court should not be involved at all. Basically, my read was this is a blue print to revamp districts via the courts which usually does not happen. Anyway, at first glance the maps appear to be more normal than the usually gerrymandered crazy ass line drawing all over the place. Supposedly, the court used a Stanford law professor to come up with it. This article is more about determining gerrymandering exists, and it impacts voters ability to have a say in government. Your points regarding WHO should generate the map is valid, but not part of this article. In this instance, the folks statistically showed that any change to the existing map would negatively impact Republican outcomes. It was perfectly drawn for the betterment of one party. That should not happen. At this point, it doesn't matter who creates any kind of map for PA. It will be more balanced than what is in place. What is sad is who should create the map? If you allow pols to do it, you end up with a similar outcome. It is not a judges job either. What non partisan group would be put in place to create the boundaries? That was a fascinating article. The notion of "wasted" votes was one I knew nothing about. |
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| Author: | Regular Reader [ Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pennsylvania Gerrymandering |
Caller Bob wrote: Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: Caller Bob wrote: TrumpKin wrote: The Democratic Party can't get votes from actual eligible voters so they have to look elsewhere. Didn't stop MY GUY Bruce Richie Daley showed him the way. |
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| Author: | Caller Bob [ Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pennsylvania Gerrymandering |
Are you in that photo, RR? |
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| Author: | IMU [ Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pennsylvania Gerrymandering |
9th District represent! |
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| Author: | Regular Reader [ Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pennsylvania Gerrymandering |
Caller Bob wrote: Are you in that photo, RR? I can sadly say that I probably have the most in common politically with Rauner than the others in that picture  . And not in the pic as I'd never step foot one in that fraud of a church.
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| Author: | beni hanna [ Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pennsylvania Gerrymandering |
Love to know what goes into determining each border. https://www.govtrack.us/congress/members/IL#map And kirkwood is correct. Chicago wards are probably worse. |
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| Author: | Kirkwood [ Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pennsylvania Gerrymandering |
Caller Bob wrote: Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: Caller Bob wrote: TrumpKin wrote: The Democratic Party can't get votes from actual eligible voters so they have to look elsewhere.  Didn't stop MY GUY Bruce You can't gerrymander a state-wide election unless you're talking about re-adjusting state borders. 
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| Author: | Regular Reader [ Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pennsylvania Gerrymandering |
beni hanna wrote: Love to know what goes into determining each border. https://www.govtrack.us/congress/members/IL#map And kirkwood is correct. Chicago wards are probably worse. In and around Chicago, it's race. It's why Gutierrez' district looks the way it does, and why he's retiring. See Lipinski's as well. |
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| Author: | beni hanna [ Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pennsylvania Gerrymandering |
Regular Reader wrote: beni hanna wrote: Love to know what goes into determining each border. https://www.govtrack.us/congress/members/IL#map And kirkwood is correct. Chicago wards are probably worse. In and around Chicago, it's race. It's why Gutierrez' district looks the way it does, and why he's retiring. See Lipinski's as well. Picture the scene: Who is sitting in the room with the marking pens? How do they haggle over 1 stretch of road that has a few each hispanics, Poles, gen Y'ers. What kind of horse trading goes on between district members? Or does Madigan just sit in a room with his most recent Census data and a cold drink and mark it up himself? |
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| Author: | Drunk Squirrel [ Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pennsylvania Gerrymandering |
When we moved out here we were in the same district as Moline/Rock Island. Had been that way for years but in 2003 we were districted into Dennis Hastert's district which was stretched way out here. 2011 it was time for a redistrict again and now we are Kinzinger's 16th which probably makes more sense in that is a mostly rural district minus a few "cities" but now it is so homogeneous that he runs with zero opposition every two years unless he does something to "liberal" and then the Rino complaints start up. That's what I hate about gerrymandering, it leads to "safe" elections for the party which caters to the edges of the party. |
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| Author: | Regular Reader [ Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pennsylvania Gerrymandering |
beni hanna wrote: Regular Reader wrote: beni hanna wrote: Love to know what goes into determining each border. https://www.govtrack.us/congress/members/IL#map And kirkwood is correct. Chicago wards are probably worse. In and around Chicago, it's race. It's why Gutierrez' district looks the way it does, and why he's retiring. See Lipinski's as well. Picture the scene: Who is sitting in the room with the marking pens? How do they haggle over 1 stretch of road that has a few each hispanics, Poles, gen Y'ers. What kind of horse trading goes on between district members? Or does Madigan just sit in a room with his most recent Census data and a cold drink and mark it up himself? My guess would be yes to all of the above. For a short while I was "in" a regular democratic ward organization, the boss pretty much handed things down respecting the chain of command. I was left with the impression that the central committee decided and everyone else was just to accept it without criticism. Or question. As for the city wards, In the 47 years living in the same house, my parents have been in three or four different wards, thrice being in a different ward than the neighbors across (the non-arterial) street. |
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| Author: | JORR [ Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pennsylvania Gerrymandering |
Regular Reader wrote: beni hanna wrote: Love to know what goes into determining each border. https://www.govtrack.us/congress/members/IL#map And kirkwood is correct. Chicago wards are probably worse. In and around Chicago, it's race. It's why Gutierrez' district looks the way it does, and why he's retiring. See Lipinski's as well. I've heard a lot of rumors about that and none of them have to do with changing demographics. |
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| Author: | beni hanna [ Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pennsylvania Gerrymandering |
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: Regular Reader wrote: beni hanna wrote: Love to know what goes into determining each border. https://www.govtrack.us/congress/members/IL#map And kirkwood is correct. Chicago wards are probably worse. In and around Chicago, it's race. It's why Gutierrez' district looks the way it does, and why he's retiring. See Lipinski's as well. I've heard a lot of rumors about that and none of them have to do with changing demographics. Is it just me, and not that there is anything wrong with this, does Gutierrez seem to have a little Dennis Hastert in him? |
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| Author: | Regular Reader [ Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pennsylvania Gerrymandering |
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: Regular Reader wrote: beni hanna wrote: Love to know what goes into determining each border. https://www.govtrack.us/congress/members/IL#map And kirkwood is correct. Chicago wards are probably worse. In and around Chicago, it's race. It's why Gutierrez' district looks the way it does, and why he's retiring. See Lipinski's as well. I've heard a lot of rumors about that and none of them have to do with changing demographics. That everyone talks about the rumors, but no one comes out and details them yet is puzzling. |
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| Author: | JORR [ Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Pennsylvania Gerrymandering |
beni hanna wrote: Joe Orr Road Rod wrote: Regular Reader wrote: beni hanna wrote: Love to know what goes into determining each border. https://www.govtrack.us/congress/members/IL#map And kirkwood is correct. Chicago wards are probably worse. In and around Chicago, it's race. It's why Gutierrez' district looks the way it does, and why he's retiring. See Lipinski's as well. I've heard a lot of rumors about that and none of them have to do with changing demographics. Is it just me, and not that there is anything wrong with this, does Gutierrez seem to have a little Dennis Hastert in him? Definitely not. Looie loves the ladies. He used to think he was the world's biggest ladies man when he would come into Quencher's. |
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