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Was Ted Kaczynski right? https://mail.chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=125145 |
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Author: | blackhawksfan [ Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:58 pm ] |
Post subject: | Was Ted Kaczynski right? |
Summary of his Manifesto: Industrial Society and Its Future begins with Kaczynski's assertion: "The Industrial Revolution and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race."[74][75] He writes that technology has had a destabilizing effect on society, has made life unfulfilling, and has caused widespread psychological suffering.[76] Kaczynski argues that most people spend their time engaged in useless pursuits because of technological advances; he calls these "surrogate activities" wherein people strive toward artificial goals, including scientific work, consumption of entertainment, political activism and following sports teams.[76] He predicts that further technological advances will lead to extensive human genetic engineering and that human beings will be adjusted to meet the needs of the social systems, rather than vice versa.[76] Kaczynski states that technological progress can be stopped, in contrast to the viewpoint of people who he says understand technology's negative effects yet passively accept it as inevitable.[77] He calls for a return to primitivist lifestyles.[76] Kaczynski argues that the erosion of human freedom is a natural product of an industrial society because "the system has to regulate human behavior closely in order to function", and that reform of the system is impossible as drastic changes to it would not be implemented because of their disruption of the system.[78] He states that the system has not yet fully achieved control over all human behavior and is in the midst of a struggle to gain that control. Kaczynski predicts that the system will break down if it cannot achieve significant control, and that it is likely this issue will be decided within the next 40 to 100 years.[78] He states that the task of those who oppose industrial society is to promote stress within and upon the society and to propagate anti-technology ideology, one that offers the "counter-ideal" of nature. Kaczynski goes on to say that a revolution will only be possible when industrial society is sufficiently unstable.[79] A significant portion of the document is dedicated to discussing left-wing politics, Kaczynski attributing many of society's issues to leftists.[78] He defines leftists as "mainly socialists, collectivists, 'politically correct' types, feminists, gay and disability activists, animal rights activists and the like".[80] He believes that oversocialization and feelings of inferiority primarily drive leftism,[76] and derides it as "one of the most widespread manifestations of the craziness of our world".[80] Kaczynski adds that the type of movement he envisions must be anti-leftist and refrain from collaboration with leftists, as in his view "leftism is in the long run inconsistent with wild nature, with human freedom and with the elimination of modern technology".[74] He also criticizes conservatives, describing them as fools who "whine about the decay of traditional values, yet ... enthusiastically support technological progress and economic growth".[80] |
Author: | Hussra [ Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:05 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Was Ted Kaczynski right? |
dude needed to get laid is all: https://www.oxygen.com/true-crime-buzz/ ... with-women |
Author: | Caller Bob [ Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:24 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Was Ted Kaczynski right? |
The Industrial Revolution, to me, is just like a story I know... ..called The Puppy Who Lost His Way. The world was changing... ..and the puppy was getting... bigger. So, you see, the puppy was like industry,... ..in that they were both lost in the woods,... ..and nobody, especially the little boy - society - knew where to find them. Except that the puppy... was a dog. But the industry, my friends,... ..that was a revolution |
Author: | Jbi11s [ Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:29 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Was Ted Kaczynski right? |
Author: | Terry's Peeps [ Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:30 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Was Ted Kaczynski right? |
Caller Bob wrote: The Industrial Revolution, to me, is just like a story I know... ..called The Puppy Who Lost His Way. The world was changing... ..and the puppy was getting... bigger. So, you see, the puppy was like industry,... ..in that they were both lost in the woods,... ..and nobody, especially the little boy - society - knew where to find them. Except that the puppy... was a dog. But the industry, my friends,... ..that was a revolution |
Author: | This Ends in Antioch [ Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:56 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Was Ted Kaczynski right? |
He was not. |
Author: | Nardi [ Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:00 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Was Ted Kaczynski right? |
Fun fact : The CIA fried his brain with copious amounts of LSD. |
Author: | SpiralStairs [ Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:01 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Was Ted Kaczynski right? |
Caller Bob wrote: The Industrial Revolution, to me, is just like a story I know... ..called The Puppy Who Lost His Way. The world was changing... ..and the puppy was getting... bigger. So, you see, the puppy was like industry,... ..in that they were both lost in the woods,... ..and nobody, especially the little boy - society - knew where to find them. Except that the puppy... was a dog. But the industry, my friends,... ..that was a revolution OK. This is epic. |
Author: | Curious Hair [ Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:03 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Was Ted Kaczynski right? |
He made some interesting points. |
Author: | Nardi [ Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:06 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Was Ted Kaczynski right? |
SpiralStairs wrote: Caller Bob wrote: The Industrial Revolution, to me, is just like a story I know... ..called The Puppy Who Lost His Way. The world was changing... ..and the puppy was getting... bigger. So, you see, the puppy was like industry,... ..in that they were both lost in the woods,... ..and nobody, especially the little boy - society - knew where to find them. Except that the puppy... was a dog. But the industry, my friends,... ..that was a revolution OK. This is epic. It's a Kamala anecdote. Except less giggling |
Author: | HawaiiYou [ Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:13 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Was Ted Kaczynski right? |
he was nuts but anyone of of us could have ended up being him in his beliefs. just without the bombing and killing part. |
Author: | WaitingforRuffcorn [ Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:13 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Was Ted Kaczynski right? |
He was a great critic, but his Luddite solutions were draconian and unrealistic at best. We are however on a path that will either lead to our destruction or change what it means to be human. |
Author: | This Ends in Antioch [ Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:32 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Was Ted Kaczynski right? |
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote: He was a great critic, but his Luddite solutions were draconian and unrealistic at best. We are however on a path that will either lead to our destruction or change what it means to be human. If we’re going to take his manifesto seriously, I’d ask how much insight he had into the psyche of the typical, everyday, pre-industrial revolution schmuck. His own life was unfulfilling because he was effectively an incel. |
Author: | IkeSouth [ Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:49 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Was Ted Kaczynski right? |
Hussra wrote: a lot of societys problems stem from women not putting out more |
Author: | Frank Coztansa [ Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:11 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Was Ted Kaczynski right? |
Curious Hair wrote: He made some interesting points. I dunno. I think he mailed it in.
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Author: | WaitingforRuffcorn [ Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:21 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Was Ted Kaczynski right? |
This Ends in Antioch wrote: WaitingforRuffcorn wrote: He was a great critic, but his Luddite solutions were draconian and unrealistic at best. We are however on a path that will either lead to our destruction or change what it means to be human. If we’re going to take his manifesto seriously, I’d ask how much insight he had into the psyche of the typical, everyday, pre-industrial revolution schmuck. His own life was unfulfilling because he was effectively an incel. He lived a life outside of modern society much like those schmucks. He is a genius who was a college professor. His foresight on technical progress was frankly astonishing. That manifesto is clearly a brilliant social critique. Maybe if he applied that intelligence towards making money he would have been a Bill Gates instead of incarcerated. Gates just got too rich to be an incel. |
Author: | One Post [ Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:31 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Was Ted Kaczynski right? |
This Ends in Antioch wrote: WaitingforRuffcorn wrote: He was a great critic, but his Luddite solutions were draconian and unrealistic at best. We are however on a path that will either lead to our destruction or change what it means to be human. If we’re going to take his manifesto seriously, I’d ask how much insight he had into the psyche of the typical, everyday, pre-industrial revolution schmuck. His own life was unfulfilling because he was effectively an incel. Yes, or for other shallow reasons. He had a comfortable upbringing in Chicago, then he spent time in the rough environments of Ivy League schools and the Public Ivies. I wonder what his thoughts on technology and the industrial revolution would have been had he been raised as a peasant farmer in Eastern Europe circa 1800 where the few times he had enough food to take a shit he was ravaged by dysentery and his teeth fell out of his head before he was thirty years old. |
Author: | HawaiiYou [ Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:34 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Was Ted Kaczynski right? |
One Post wrote: I wonder what his thoughts on technology and the industrial revolution would have been had he been raised as a peasant farmer in Eastern Europe circa 1800 where the few times he had enough food to take a shit he was ravaged by dysentery and his teeth fell out of his head before he was thirty years old. he would probably have called that heaven. |
Author: | pittmike [ Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:35 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Was Ted Kaczynski right? |
It is a little funny he isn’t more studied. At least more in the main media streams people see. I realize there are stacks of academic papers on him. |
Author: | HawaiiYou [ Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:36 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Was Ted Kaczynski right? |
pittmike wrote: It is a little funny he isn’t more studied. At least more in the main media streams people see. I realize there are stacks of academic papers on him. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lokrmykm6k |
Author: | This Ends in Antioch [ Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:40 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Was Ted Kaczynski right? |
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote: This Ends in Antioch wrote: WaitingforRuffcorn wrote: He was a great critic, but his Luddite solutions were draconian and unrealistic at best. We are however on a path that will either lead to our destruction or change what it means to be human. If we’re going to take his manifesto seriously, I’d ask how much insight he had into the psyche of the typical, everyday, pre-industrial revolution schmuck. His own life was unfulfilling because he was effectively an incel. He lived a life outside of modern society much like those schmucks. He is a genius who was a college professor. His foresight on technical progress was frankly astonishing. That manifesto is clearly a brilliant social critique. Maybe if he applied that intelligence towards making money he would have been a Bill Gates instead of incarcerated. Gates just got too rich to be an incel. The point is that those who lived an agrarian lifestyle pre-industrial revolution were not living outside society. They were firmly in the mainstream. Most likely, they were living a life consistent with their parents, grandparents and generations of ancestors before them. Suggesting Kaczynski understood that mindset would be akin to suggesting you can relate to somebody from the 1800s were you to cancel your internet service and move to a cabin with no plumbing. Living off the grid today (by choice) is not the same as carving out a homestead by necessity. |
Author: | WaitingforRuffcorn [ Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:44 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Was Ted Kaczynski right? |
There were also historical records. I guess you can’t really understand the mentality of people from the pat but that seems like a moot point in analysis of the totality of the ideas in the manifesto. |
Author: | This Ends in Antioch [ Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:54 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Was Ted Kaczynski right? |
His core premise was that technological advancements make modern life unfulfilling. In order for that to be true, he’d have to have some sense of the relative contentment of past generations. His own lack of experience made him unaware that fulfillment can come from many places - faith, family, achievements by your favorite football team, etc. I think it’s likely that his mathematical genius made him blind to all the shit he didn’t know. |
Author: | Darkside [ Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:56 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Was Ted Kaczynski right? |
Fuckin guy read Walden and just ran with it, ya know. |
Author: | Curious Hair [ Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:49 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Was Ted Kaczynski right? |
This Ends in Antioch wrote: His core premise was that technological advancements make modern life unfulfilling. So was Thom Yorke's. There's a mash-up concept: OK Kaczynski |
Author: | WaitingforRuffcorn [ Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:21 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Was Ted Kaczynski right? |
This Ends in Antioch wrote: His core premise was that technological advancements make modern life unfulfilling. In order for that to be true, he’d have to have some sense of the relative contentment of past generations. His own lack of experience made him unaware that fulfillment can come from many places - faith, family, achievements by your favorite football team, etc. I think it’s likely that his mathematical genius made him blind to all the shit he didn’t know. I would say unfulfilling is putting it mildly. |
Author: | SpiralStairs [ Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:26 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Was Ted Kaczynski right? |
This Ends in Antioch wrote: His core premise was that technological advancements make modern life unfulfilling. In order for that to be true, he’d have to have some sense of the relative contentment of past generations. His own lack of experience made him unaware that fulfillment can come from many places - faith, family, achievements by your favorite football team, etc. I think it’s likely that his mathematical genius made him blind to all the shit he didn’t know. Didn't dude live in a shack in the middle of nowhere? |
Author: | Spaulding [ Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:38 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Was Ted Kaczynski right? |
Terry's Peeps wrote: Caller Bob wrote: The Industrial Revolution, to me, is just like a story I know... ..called The Puppy Who Lost His Way. The world was changing... ..and the puppy was getting... bigger. So, you see, the puppy was like industry,... ..in that they were both lost in the woods,... ..and nobody, especially the little boy - society - knew where to find them. Except that the puppy... was a dog. But the industry, my friends,... ..that was a revolution Love it! I've always wanted to read Walden. I'd like to see it too even if most say it's underwhelming. |
Author: | Brick [ Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:53 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Was Ted Kaczynski right? |
No. He was wrong. Technology has improved life in hundreds of ways. Those who find life unfulfilling would feel the same way if they were still tending to a farm with an ox and a plow. A portion of society is always going to feel unfulfilled no matter what they have and how they live. |
Author: | SpiralStairs [ Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:57 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Was Ted Kaczynski right? |
Brick wrote: No. He was wrong. Technology has improved life in hundreds of ways. Those who find life unfulfilling would feel the same way if they were still tending to a farm with an ox and a plow. A portion of society is always going to feel unfulfilled no matter what they have and how they live. Brick doesn't believe in global warming. Very sad! |
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