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The Case Against High School Sports
https://mail.chicagofanatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=81986
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Author:  Curious Hair [ Thu Sep 26, 2013 9:43 am ]
Post subject:  The Case Against High School Sports

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/arc ... ts/309447/

Quote:
Imagine, for a moment, if Americans transferred our obsessive intensity about high-school sports—the rankings, the trophies, the ceremonies, the pride—to high-school academics. We would look not so different from South Korea, or Japan, or any of a handful of Asian countries whose hypercompetitive, pressure-cooker approach to academics in many ways mirrors the American approach to sports. Both approaches can be dysfunctional; both set kids up for stress and disappointment. The difference is that 93 percent of South Korean students graduate from high school, compared with just 77 percent of American students—only about 2 percent of whom receive athletic scholarships to college.

Author:  rogers park bryan [ Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Case Against High School Sports

Boom! Goes the dynamite

10 pages by tomorow night

Author:  Mini Ditka [ Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Case Against High School Sports

You have to remember that the public schools in America are highly ineffective. They pump billions of dollars into public schools and they can't get the test scores up. The focus of schools these days is bringing technology into the classroom. I think if anything the schools are probably illiterate students who want to spend their lives interacting in front of screens (TV and video game screens, computer screens and cell phone screens). Public schools are focusing on getting their students to graduate and private schools focus on getting their students to enroll in college.

Author:  Hatchetman [ Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Case Against High School Sports

We blew the shit out of Japan and had to save South Korea's ass, so that tells you what high school graduation rates are worth. Squat.

Author:  The Original Kid Cairo [ Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Case Against High School Sports

rogers park bryan wrote:
Boom! Goes the dynamite

10 pages by tomorow night

There's going to be a whole lot of stupid in this thread, as evidenced by the two posts directly above mine.

Author:  Frank Coztansa [ Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Case Against High School Sports

Making kids wear uniforms and ties in school will get test scores up.

Author:  Rod [ Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Case Against High School Sports

Frank Coztansa wrote:
Making kids wear uniforms and ties in school will get test scores up.


Actually, I think in a lot of cases, it has.

Author:  Frank Coztansa [ Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Case Against High School Sports

Image

Author:  Don Tiny [ Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Case Against High School Sports

The Original Kid Cairo wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Boom! Goes the dynamite

10 pages by tomorow night

There's going to be a whole lot of stupid in this thread, as evidenced by the two posts directly above mine.


But one knows that before reading anything they write.

Author:  Don Tiny [ Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Case Against High School Sports

Frank Coztansa wrote:
Making kids wear uniforms and ties in school will get test scores up.


Image

Author:  Frank Coztansa [ Thu Sep 26, 2013 11:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Case Against High School Sports

Image

Author:  rogers park bryan [ Thu Sep 26, 2013 11:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Case Against High School Sports

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Making kids wear uniforms and ties in school will get test scores up.


Actually, I think in a lot of cases, it has.

Image

Author:  Bagels [ Thu Sep 26, 2013 11:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Case Against High School Sports

rogers park bryan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Making kids wear uniforms and ties in school will get test scores up.


Actually, I think in a lot of cases, it has.

Image


:lol: :lol:

that's an awesome gif holy shit

Author:  Dave In Champaign [ Thu Sep 26, 2013 11:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Case Against High School Sports

Any concrete policy ideas on how to "transfer our obsessive intensity"?

I have no affiliation with nor affinity for high school sports, but this reads like another overwrought strawvillain in THE WAR FOR AMERICA'S CHILDREN (see also: teacher's unions, short school days, lack of "moral education," Gladwell's halfcocked race-baiting about Asians using better numerals than us, etc.), which is unfortunate, because this is a pretty simple issue. Maybe let's quit treating public education like a Randian wet dream and see where we end up in five years.

Author:  Big Chicagoan [ Thu Sep 26, 2013 11:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Case Against High School Sports

I think a lot of school districts are trying to improve education through technology. However, I feel that using technology for everything hurts the students ability to learn and use critical thinking. They should go back to the days where students would take a class a week or a day on computers and typing, but the rest of the time they have to use books and pencils and their brains.

Instead of teaching kids to learn, they are merely teaching them how to use computers to get answers for everything.

Author:  Curious Hair [ Thu Sep 26, 2013 11:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Case Against High School Sports

Dave In Champaign wrote:
Any concrete policy ideas on how to "transfer our obsessive intensity"?

I don't know if we can do that, but start by reallocating the money spent on organized sub-concussive head trauma to cash-strapped academic/performing arts departments.

Author:  Don Tiny [ Thu Sep 26, 2013 11:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Case Against High School Sports

Big Chicagoan wrote:
I think a lot of school districts are trying to improve education through technology. However, I feel that using technology for everything hurts the students ability to learn and use critical thinking. They should go back to the days where students would take a class a week or a day on computers and typing, but the rest of the time they have to use books and pencils and their brains.

Instead of teaching kids to learn, they are merely teaching them how to use computers to get answers for everything.


Yeah, same thing with calculators and digital watches and artificial lighting ... candlepower is good enough, dagnabbit.

Image

Author:  Hatchetman [ Thu Sep 26, 2013 12:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Case Against High School Sports

read a story about some rich bastard in the WSJ. runs a big placement firm. says he can find a job for anyone if they have:
1. integrity
2. work ethic
3. ability to pass a drug test

He can't find enough people with these traits.

Author:  Dave In Champaign [ Thu Sep 26, 2013 12:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Case Against High School Sports

Curious Hair wrote:
Dave In Champaign wrote:
Any concrete policy ideas on how to "transfer our obsessive intensity"?

I don't know if we can do that, but start by reallocating the money spent on organized sub-concussive head trauma to cash-strapped academic/performing arts departments.


That's fine, but how much money are we spending on athletics? Not being snarky, this is honestly a topic I don't know much about.

Author:  good dolphin [ Thu Sep 26, 2013 12:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Case Against High School Sports

There are many students whose only incentive to come to school and get decent grades is a sport.

I am troubled the way high school sports have increased in stature over the last decade or so. I see no reason why high schoolers need to travel long distances when classes are in session in order to compete. I don't just say this for the public school league team that travels across country for an ESPN matchup. I think the same thing for the catholic league team that travels to Ireland for a football game. I don't understand why a high school needs to have a school wide ceremony on signing day for an athlete when several other students will be getting their acceptance letter to far more impressive schools resulting in a diploma that will provide them far more earning potential. I don't like that coaches are not otherwise gainfully employed and core members of a faculty at which they coach. I dislike the proliferation of transfers rather than students who have 4 stable years at a school in which to learn about community.

Elimination isn't the answer but de emphasis is in order and would be fairly simple

Author:  Douchebag [ Thu Sep 26, 2013 12:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Case Against High School Sports

good dolphin wrote:
There are many students whose only incentive to come to school and get decent grades is a sport.

I am troubled the way high school sports have increased in stature over the last decade or so. I see no reason why high schoolers need to travel long distances when classes are in session in order to compete. I don't just say this for the public school league team that travels across country for an ESPN matchup. I think the same thing for the catholic league team that travels to Ireland for a football game. I don't understand why a high school needs to have a school wide ceremony on signing day for an athlete when several other students will be getting their acceptance letter to far more impressive schools resulting in a diploma that will provide them far more earning potential. I don't like that coaches are not otherwise gainfully employed and core members of a faculty at which they coach. I dislike the proliferation of transfers rather than students who have 4 stable years at a school in which to learn about community.

Elimination isn't the answer but de emphasis is in order and would be fairly simple

Very well said.

Author:  conns7901 [ Thu Sep 26, 2013 12:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Case Against High School Sports

I think their should be a case against eliminating the band from high school sporting events....


But sports isn't the reason our schools do not do as well as they do. Low standards, poor parenting and lazy tenured teachers (not all teachers of course) are the problem.

If parents do not read and work with their kids in the early developmental stages 2-5 those kids by and large never recover academically.

Which is why more money should be into kindergarten and preschool programs. Throwing money into high schools is by and large too late to make a real impact.

Author:  Curious Hair [ Thu Sep 26, 2013 12:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Case Against High School Sports

Dave In Champaign wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
Dave In Champaign wrote:
Any concrete policy ideas on how to "transfer our obsessive intensity"?

I don't know if we can do that, but start by reallocating the money spent on organized sub-concussive head trauma to cash-strapped academic/performing arts departments.


That's fine, but how much money are we spending on athletics? Not being snarky, this is honestly a topic I don't know much about.

well, from the article,

Quote:
Football at Premont cost about $1,300 a player. Math, by contrast, cost just $618 a student. For the price of one football season, the district could have hired a full-time elementary-school music teacher for an entire year. But, despite the fact that Premont’s football team had won just one game the previous season and hadn’t been to the playoffs in roughly a decade, this option never occurred to anyone.


and that's at what seems to be a shitty impoverished district in rural south Texas. I imagine it comes out to more than that at Conant.

At my high school, we had a state-of-the-art, four-court gymnasium, but the hallways had holes in the ceiling and the auditorium/music rooms were in shameful disrepair until 2003. Academically, we were mediocre at best, but the athletic department always seemed to be taken care of.

Author:  Frank Coztansa [ Thu Sep 26, 2013 12:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Case Against High School Sports

Is this case against high school sports anything like the fight against the JDRF?

Author:  Bagels [ Thu Sep 26, 2013 12:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Case Against High School Sports

Frank Coztansa wrote:
Is this case against high school sports anything like the fight against the JDRF?


no

Author:  Curious Hair [ Thu Sep 26, 2013 12:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Case Against High School Sports

Yeah, I agree, fuck the Cubs or something.

Author:  conns7901 [ Thu Sep 26, 2013 1:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Case Against High School Sports

Curious Hair wrote:
and that's at what seems to be a shitty impoverished district in rural south Texas. I imagine it comes out to more than that at Conant.



Texas is a completely different animal when it comes to high school football. Coaching staffs are hired and fired like colleges.

Author:  Dave In Champaign [ Thu Sep 26, 2013 1:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Case Against High School Sports

Curious Hair wrote:
Dave In Champaign wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
Dave In Champaign wrote:
Any concrete policy ideas on how to "transfer our obsessive intensity"?

I don't know if we can do that, but start by reallocating the money spent on organized sub-concussive head trauma to cash-strapped academic/performing arts departments.


That's fine, but how much money are we spending on athletics? Not being snarky, this is honestly a topic I don't know much about.

well, from the article,

Quote:
Football at Premont cost about $1,300 a player. Math, by contrast, cost just $618 a student. For the price of one football season, the district could have hired a full-time elementary-school music teacher for an entire year. But, despite the fact that Premont’s football team had won just one game the previous season and hadn’t been to the playoffs in roughly a decade, this option never occurred to anyone.


and that's at what seems to be a shitty impoverished district in rural south Texas. I imagine it comes out to more than that at Conant.

At my high school, we had a state-of-the-art, four-court gymnasium, but the hallways had holes in the ceiling and the auditorium/music rooms were in shameful disrepair until 2003. Academically, we were mediocre at best, but the athletic department always seemed to be taken care of.


I certainly agree that music education (or any academic subject, for that matter) should take precedence over athletics, though I think athletics are valuable (not in the monetize-everything way; in the actual way). I guess I just resent the persistent idea that education is a zero-sum game in which departments and schools and districts and students all have to compete with one another because competition makes everything better. "Sorry, gonna have to pack 35 kids in every classroom if we want textbooks that know how World War I ended. You guys know how it is!" Fuck that.

Author:  Curious Hair [ Thu Sep 26, 2013 1:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Case Against High School Sports

I don't think it's a matter of competition so much as it is the fact that budgets are finite and shrinking.

Author:  rogers park bryan [ Thu Sep 26, 2013 1:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The Case Against High School Sports

rogers park bryan wrote:
Boom! Goes the dynamite

10 pages by tomorow night

I didnt realize we would be back to "Sorry, you cant use search right now" status so, maybe not Ten pages


Man, that shit is killing this board. Not a complaint. Just a fact. That shit has to drive more people away from posting than anything else

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