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 Post subject: Re: 30 For 30 -- Benji
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:53 am 
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I don't believe the two guys who went to prison wouldn't have rolled on the girlfriend if she was involved or at least told the truth by this time.


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 Post subject: Re: 30 For 30 -- Benji
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:54 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
It's not my theory.


I never said it was.


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 Post subject: Re: 30 For 30 -- Benji
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:21 am 
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SomeGuy wrote:
What was the conspiracy supposed to accomplish? Why did the girlfriend want him dead?

What was the end game? Although I'm sure they didn't think it through to that point.


The thought was that the gf was pissed about their son and shaky relationship, and wanted him jumped. Not shot, but jumped (there was a difference back then). The rumor was that she was a bit....emotional, and that this would get her even with him for, well, whatever?!? Seriously. :roll:

That it escalated quicker than perhaps even she wanted, didn't matter, it was too damn late. Like I said before, petty, stupid, illogical & inexcusable. From speaking with friends who played with him, he was a really, really nice kid, but like many kids he unfortunately/unwittingly made himself a target/victim.

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 Post subject: Re: 30 For 30 -- Benji
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:24 am 
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SomeGuy wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
It's not my theory.


I never said it was.

SomeGuy, can you stay out of trouble for five minutes?

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 Post subject: Re: 30 For 30 -- Benji
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:26 am 
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The Original Kid Cairo wrote:
SomeGuy wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
It's not my theory.


I never said it was.

SomeGuy, can you stay out of trouble for five minutes?


He's always in the middle of something.

Just not a Kid-Speeps sandwich.

Sigh....

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 Post subject: Re: 30 For 30 -- Benji
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:29 am 
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SomeGuy is an enigma.

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 Post subject: Re: 30 For 30 -- Benji
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:30 am 
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The Original Kid Cairo wrote:
SomeGuy is an enigma.


Wrapped in a riddle.

Wrapped in a taco.

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 Post subject: Re: 30 For 30 -- Benji
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:05 am 
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I'm about to watch the Comcast 25 to see how the stories match.

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 Post subject: Re: 30 For 30 -- Benji
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 9:16 am 
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cpguy wrote:
What's sad is nothing has changed in 25 years. I wonder what the crime figures are now vs. then?


These 2 statements contradict one another. BTW a lot has changed. Murders are down 50%.


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 Post subject: Re: 30 For 30 -- Benji
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 9:20 am 
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Being a Simeon guy I heard about the legend of Ben Wilson 24/7 and many of my teachers were his classmates. After finally watching the documentary I believe the shooter. That story seems more plausible than a bump and a robbery. Seems like Benji was a hot head. Very unfortunate we never got to see what the finished product would be. All I heard were comparisons to Magic.


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 Post subject: Re: 30 For 30 -- Benji
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 9:33 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
Saw it last month. Was pretty good. Kinda surprised even almost 30 years later the ex girl friend refuse to talk. ?


The girl purjured herself on the stand sending at least one innocent person away for 30 years if the shooter is to be believed. She also was the reason Wilson was in an agitated state when he approached the shooters. It is a good idea for her to stay far away from the story. I was glad to hear their son got a college education.


Many still believe (correctly or not :wink: ) that she had something more to do with what happened that day. I knew some of the guys around Ben and while they (nor he) weren't exactly angels there was other crap believed to be involved that she helped stoke.

Ultimately, I don't believe the shooter, his "remorse" looked heavily staged and his background "story" sounds like complete bull.


So you think they were mugging a 6'8" high school kid with little money, in broad daylight, in front of a popular store with a gun? That is a really, really bad plan if true.

I didn't think from the interviews that even the prosecutor believed the theory of the case he presented. He did know that he would get a conviction no matter what evidence he put on.


Completely agree. The guy was about 5'8" and 150 lbs soaking wet. No way in hell he targeted Ben. They need the bullshit to help the legend of Ben Wilson grow. Besides back then the police could get you to agree to anything if they were given enough time. It is my belief he was partially responsible for his own death. No Simeon alumni would like to hear that.


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 Post subject: Re: 30 For 30 -- Benji
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 9:39 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
I forgot to mention the odd appearance of Scoop Jackson. I didn't think he was as old as he looked. He gave off a strong down low brother vibe and I think he is shrinking.


He still stays in/near the hood. A friend of mine used to have a store near his house.


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 Post subject: Re: 30 For 30 -- Benji
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 9:46 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
Spaulding wrote:
How did his gf perjure herself and why did his mom sue?


The shooter's story is that there was no robbery but that an agitated Wilson bumped into him starting an argument that ended in the shooting. Her testimony was that they were mugging Wilson.

The real problem with her testimony if the shooter is telling the truth isn't that the shooter did time. He would have had a hard time claiming self defense when he had a gun and Wilson was unarmed. He was going to prison either way. If the shooter is telling the truth then his accomplice went to prison for nothing.

When you conspire with another to commit a crime with a gun all of the violations comitted in furtherance of that crime are placed on all members of the conspiracy. That is why I don't believe the state's case. They were looking to convict both of the boys who were present at the shooting. The only way they could do this is if the shooter and the accomplice made their plan in advance. I definitely do not think their plan was to mug. RR believes that their plan was to do something else. Whether that was true or not the state only proved a mugging with the girlfriend being the key witness.

Without the mugging evidence there is nothing that connects the accomplice to the crime. Simply being present when your friend goes nuts isn't a crime.

I think the state coerced her testimony in order to get a tidy double conviction. This may also be in line with RR belief as she saved her own ass with a mugging story because if she was part of the conspiracy to kill him, she would have gone away as well.

Wilson's mom sued St. Bernard Hospital for their faulty care when Wilson was brought in. The case was settled out of court.


It was the GF story and their signed confession that sent them away.


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 Post subject: Re: 30 For 30 -- Benji
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 10:18 am 
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Tragic story of ‘Benji’ still goes on today

BY MARY MITCHELL


Updated: October 30, 2012 2:16AM


ESPN’s “30 for 30” profile of Benjamin Wilson, the Simeon High School basketball phenom who was shot to death in 1984, dropped a bombshell.
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Many of us know the story of how Wilson was gunned down on the street, a couple of blocks from the South Side high school, by two gang-bangers who had tried to rob him. In “Benji,” Coodie Simmons and Chike Ozah, the film’s directors, cast a shadow of doubt over that version of the tragedy.

The documentary includes a riveting interview with Billy Moore, who was 17 when he shot Wilson. Moore served 19 years of his 40-year sentence and now works for an agency that helps ex-offenders re-integrate into the community.

Not interviewed was Omar Dixon, who was 16 at the time. Dixon was paroled after serving half of his 30-year sentence, but in 2007, he was convicted of armed robbery and is serving a 40-year term.

The documentary is compelling, and it highlights why 10,000 people showed up at a memorial service to mourn Wilson’s death. But “Benji” also raises disturbing questions.

Moore related details about that tragic day that shed a different light on the tragedy. He denied the shooting had anything to do with gangs or robbery, as prosecutors claimed. He also claimed Dixon had nothing to do with the shooting.
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According to Moore, Wilson had been arguing with his girlfriend just before the 6-foot-7-inch basketball player shoved him and refused to apologize.

Moore’s reaction to being punked on the street was to open his coat and display a handgun. But Wilson wouldn’t back down and when he lunged for Moore, he shot him twice, Moore said.

After they were arrested, Moore and Dixon signed confessions that included statements about the attempted robbery. The teens later claimed they were coerced into signing false statements.

Murder is murder, and this is not an attempt to defend the indefensible. But it has been nearly three decades since Wilson was killed, and the same conditions surrounding that killing still exist today.

For instance, when young black men kill other young black men, the homicides are often portrayed as gang- or drug-related disputes. But a lot of young black men are getting killed because of incidents similar to the one Moore described.

“What happened here was you had a group of kids who didn’t want to get punked. If they walked away, it’s entirely possible this wouldn’t have happened,” filmmaker Simmons said in an interview with EURweb.com.

If Moore is telling the truth, that would mean the state sent a 16-year-old to jail for a crime he did not commit. Haven’t we heard this story time after time?

Yet in this case, such a terrible wrong won’t be addressed because of Wilson’s celebrity status. The fact that such a stunning accusation is treated like a minor detail reinforces the perception that the criminal justice system uses a double standard.

If Wilson had been an ordinary young man, living an ordinary life on the South Side, it’s a good bet that Moore and Dixon would have gotten a far lighter sentence.

But prosecutors allegedly fabricated a story about a robbery to make sure the teens got a long prison term, and that just breeds disrespect for the system.

Additionally, activists went to great lengths sanitizing Wilson’s image. By the time the case went to trial, jurors were confronted with a victim who was more a messiah than a 17-year-old basketball star.

It took jurors less than two hours to convict Moore and Dixon.

Worse yet, despite all the tears and the harsh penalties, black youths are still getting killed at an alarming rate. In 1984, the city had 669 homicides. On Monday, with the 436th homicide, the city surpassed last year’s total. As in the past, many of the victims are black.

Frankly, the lesson I hope young people get from “Benji” is not how exceptional he was at sports but that he was a human being.

I hope young people see that Ben­jamin Wilson’s death was tragic because like too many young black men today, he lost his life before he had a chance to fulfill his purpose and his dreams.

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 Post subject: Re: 30 For 30 -- Benji
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 11:09 am 
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If it went down as the shooter describes, would he be acquitted of any wrong-doing under stand your ground laws?

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 Post subject: Re: 30 For 30 -- Benji
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 11:11 am 
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MattInTheCrown wrote:
If it went down as the shooter describes, would he be acquitted of any wrong-doing under stand your ground laws?


No. The shooter was black.


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 Post subject: Re: 30 For 30 -- Benji
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 11:46 am 
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Big Chicagoan wrote:
MattInTheCrown wrote:
If it went down as the shooter describes, would he be acquitted of any wrong-doing under stand your ground laws?


No. The shooter was black.


Nor does he live in Florida. ALso, guns were illegal at this time in Chicago.

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conns7901 wrote:
Not over yet.
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 Post subject: Re: 30 For 30 -- Benji
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:01 pm 
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Just watched the documentary and read this whole thread. It sure sounds like the GF had this kid all messed up in the head and it lead to his death. No wonder she refused to be interviewed and testified to the "robbery". She probably did want him roughed up and he ended up dead.

And my point remains. With over 400 dead in the city year to date, not much has changed when it comes to murder in the city. At least the policy of which hospital to go to has changed. And Jesse Jackson remains a fucking attention grabbing whore, acting like he knew the kid. Give me a God damn break.


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 Post subject: Re: 30 For 30 -- Benji
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 10:09 am 
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Just saw this Tuesday night for the first time, what a terrible tragedy. I thought ESPN did a outstanding job covering it though.

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 Post subject: Re: 30 For 30 -- Benji
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 10:33 am 
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cpguy wrote:
And Jesse Jackson remains a fucking attention grabbing whore, acting like he knew the kid. Give me a God damn break.
This shouldn't surprise anybody. He's drawn to TV/Video cameras like a moth to a flame.

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 Post subject: Re: 30 For 30 -- Benji
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 10:52 am 
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Hawg Ass wrote:
Just saw this Tuesday night for the first time, what a terrible tragedy. I thought ESPN did a outstanding job covering it though.

Their documentaries have been superb. That's the one thing ESPN excels at.

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