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 Post subject: Re: Better Call Saul
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:39 am 
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Better Call Saul is a bit of a paradox in that it consistently yields good to great individual episodes even as it remains a mediocre or worse show. The whole is truly less than the sum of its parts.

"Water Works" was well written, acted and directed, but it sure was disappointing as the penultimate episode of the series. What story is being told here? What is this show even about? The more this show tells its story, the less coherent it seems. The subplots involving Lalo, Kim and Howard all seem to have been abruptly ended, and the same could be argued for Chuck's narrative. Even though Saul/Gene has remained a constant within the show, the show itself has not organically evolved, has no unifying narrative arc, and seems to be staggering to its conclusion.

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 Post subject: Re: Better Call Saul
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:42 am 
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staggering to a conclusion is an understatement

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 Post subject: Re: Better Call Saul
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:22 am 
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just about every modern show today is written in a "neverending story" style. it's made up as it goes along. even shows that uses source material will go their own ways, and sometimes it can be creatively beneficial.

but even really good writers like vince gilligan have fallen into the trap of banality, repetitiveness, and padding. this show is a great example of that. this could've been an extremely clever, tight 3-4 season show, that revolved around a guy who starts as a petty thief and ends as one (which is ultimately what this show is concluding with)...building a story around that. but adding in all the cartel stuff just to drop it, and backloading the story with the gene post script is why the pace seems exasperating.

it does have individual scenes/episodes that are among the best in TV. but as a whole, the show has a lot of weaknesses that could've been fixed with tighter writing.


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 Post subject: Re: Better Call Saul
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:25 am 
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Tall Midget wrote:
Better Call Saul is a bit of a paradox in that it consistently yields good to great individual episodes even as it remains a mediocre or worse show. The whole is truly less than the sum of its parts.

"Water Works" was well written, acted and directed, but it sure was disappointing as the penultimate episode of the series. What story is being told here? What is this show even about? The more this show tells its story, the less coherent it seems. The subplots involving Lalo, Kim and Howard all seem to have been abruptly ended, and the same could be argued for Chuck's narrative. Even though Saul/Gene has remained a constant within the show, the show itself has not organically evolved, has no unifying narrative arc, and seems to be staggering to its conclusion.



You've been right on with your critique of this show for awhile. Maybe the last episode will be completely mind-blowing and redeem everything but I can't really see where the show could go to make that occur.

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 Post subject: Re: Better Call Saul
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:27 am 
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W_Z wrote:
just about every modern show today is written in a "neverending story" style. it's made up as it goes along. even shows that uses source material will go their own ways, and sometimes it can be creatively beneficial.


They managed that so well with Breaking Bad though. The show would have been just as great had it ended with "Face Off" and maybe even greater if it had ended with Hank sitting on the toilet looking at Gale's inscription to Walt.

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 Post subject: Re: Better Call Saul
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:33 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
W_Z wrote:
just about every modern show today is written in a "neverending story" style. it's made up as it goes along. even shows that uses source material will go their own ways, and sometimes it can be creatively beneficial.


They managed that so well with Breaking Bad though. The show would have been just as great had it ended with "Face Off" and maybe even greater if it had ended with Hank sitting on the toilet looking at Gale's inscription to Walt.

It seemed with BB that they had a clear plan of where they were heading.

BCS seems like they are just flying around with no clue where or how to land.

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 Post subject: Re: Better Call Saul
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:38 am 
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RFDC wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
W_Z wrote:
just about every modern show today is written in a "neverending story" style. it's made up as it goes along. even shows that uses source material will go their own ways, and sometimes it can be creatively beneficial.


They managed that so well with Breaking Bad though. The show would have been just as great had it ended with "Face Off" and maybe even greater if it had ended with Hank sitting on the toilet looking at Gale's inscription to Walt.

It seemed with BB that they had a clear plan of where they were heading.

BCS seems like they are just flying around with no clue where or how to land.



I think actually it may be the opposite. They know exactly when Saul ends. With Breaking Bad the show could have ended at a couple breaks like I said. I know "Ozymandias" is considered an all-time great hour of television, but I would have considered the show greater had it just ended with Hank on the toilet.

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 Post subject: Re: Better Call Saul
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:40 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
RFDC wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
W_Z wrote:
just about every modern show today is written in a "neverending story" style. it's made up as it goes along. even shows that uses source material will go their own ways, and sometimes it can be creatively beneficial.


They managed that so well with Breaking Bad though. The show would have been just as great had it ended with "Face Off" and maybe even greater if it had ended with Hank sitting on the toilet looking at Gale's inscription to Walt.

It seemed with BB that they had a clear plan of where they were heading.

BCS seems like they are just flying around with no clue where or how to land.



I think actually it may be the opposite. They know exactly when Saul ends. With Breaking Bad the show could have ended at a couple breaks like I said. I know "Ozymandias" is considered an all-time great hour of television, but I would have considered the show greater had it just ended with Hank on the toilet.

I think you would be in the minority if it ended there.

They may know when Saul ends but they clearly have no clue on how it ends.

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 Post subject: Re: Better Call Saul
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 1:47 pm 
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This show is so damn dark (in film) and artsy that it is like a radio show where no one is talking.

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 Post subject: Re: Better Call Saul
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 1:57 pm 
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One thing to keep in mind is that BCS is using mostly different writers than BB (some are the same, like Tom Schnauz, but many are new). Gilligan is not as involved, and I think the creative team as a whole is not as good. On the other hand, I suppose it's possible Gilligan and Gould wanted to make the show different and are the ones preventing the writers from making it more BB-like.

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 Post subject: Re: Better Call Saul
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 3:38 pm 
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Just like Anchorman 2, I'm happy we got to learn more about the world built in the original but it didn't reach the same level of all time greatness.

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 Post subject: Re: Better Call Saul
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 4:08 pm 
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WZ is spot on about the series being too long. Ironically I was more entertained by the cartel sublot than I was with the Jimmy/Chuck thing, so i differ there. I guess that means I was less interested in how Jimmy became Saul and more interested in how Saul got involved in the cartel universe. But I admit that the soul of the show was/is Jimmy's transformation into Saul, and the Chuck storyline was the driver of that transformation.

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 Post subject: Re: Better Call Saul
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:52 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
Couple good scenes and the Jessie and Kim chat was nice. But overall, I was bored. These last episodes compared with the last stretch of Breaking Bad is not even close. I am pretty much ready to be done with this thing and have to force myself to watch these episodes. When BB was coming to an end there was a can't wait excitement to see them.

You’re allowed to stop watching.

Fwiw this show ended the moment Howard was killed. The second half of this season is an epilogue.

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Last edited by SpiralStairs on Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Better Call Saul
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:54 pm 
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SpiralStairs wrote:
RFDC wrote:
Couple good scenes and the Jessie and Kim chat was nice. But overall, I was bored. These last episodes compared with the last stretch of Breaking Bad is not even close. I am pretty much ready to be done with this thing and have to force myself to watch these episodes. When BB was coming to an end there was a can't wait excitement to see them.

You’re allowed to stop watching.

I have made it this far I want to finish it out.

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 Post subject: Re: Better Call Saul
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:55 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
SpiralStairs wrote:
RFDC wrote:
Couple good scenes and the Jessie and Kim chat was nice. But overall, I was bored. These last episodes compared with the last stretch of Breaking Bad is not even close. I am pretty much ready to be done with this thing and have to force myself to watch these episodes. When BB was coming to an end there was a can't wait excitement to see them.

You’re allowed to stop watching.

I have made it this far I want to finish it out.


Why watch something you don’t like? Punch the button etc

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 Post subject: Re: Better Call Saul
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:57 pm 
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SpiralStairs wrote:
RFDC wrote:
SpiralStairs wrote:
RFDC wrote:
Couple good scenes and the Jessie and Kim chat was nice. But overall, I was bored. These last episodes compared with the last stretch of Breaking Bad is not even close. I am pretty much ready to be done with this thing and have to force myself to watch these episodes. When BB was coming to an end there was a can't wait excitement to see them.

You’re allowed to stop watching.

I have made it this far I want to finish it out.


Why watch something you don’t like? Punch the button etc

Because I have enjoyed the earlier seasons and I was a huge fan of BB, so I want to see how they finish it up.

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 Post subject: Re: Better Call Saul
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:58 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
SpiralStairs wrote:
RFDC wrote:
SpiralStairs wrote:
RFDC wrote:
Couple good scenes and the Jessie and Kim chat was nice. But overall, I was bored. These last episodes compared with the last stretch of Breaking Bad is not even close. I am pretty much ready to be done with this thing and have to force myself to watch these episodes. When BB was coming to an end there was a can't wait excitement to see them.

You’re allowed to stop watching.

I have made it this far I want to finish it out.


Why watch something you don’t like? Punch the button etc

Because I have enjoyed the earlier seasons and I was a huge fan of BB, so I want to see how they finish it up.


Rewatch the things you like instead of things you don’t.

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 Post subject: Re: Better Call Saul
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:59 pm 
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Why are you like this?

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 Post subject: Re: Better Call Saul
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:02 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
Why are you like this?

If it’s weird to stop watching things I don’t like, well I guess I’m weird.

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 Post subject: Re: Better Call Saul
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:05 pm 
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He's going to gut it out one more time.

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 Post subject: Re: Better Call Saul
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:09 pm 
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SpiralStairs wrote:
RFDC wrote:
Why are you like this?

If it’s weird to stop watching things I don’t like, well I guess I’m weird.

I think it is weird that you are acting as if you dont understand what I am saying.

I have invested all this time in a show I can make it through the rest of the last season to see how it finishes up.

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 Post subject: Re: Better Call Saul
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:17 pm 
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I guess I can’t wrap my head around the decision to continue to watch something that’s not enjoyable when there are any number of things that you could do that would be enjoyable.

Option A: committing my limited free time to do something I don’t like.

Option B: committing my limited free time to do something I do like.

Somehow I’m the crazy person for preferring Option B.

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 Post subject: Re: Better Call Saul
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:28 pm 
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SpiralStairs wrote:
I guess I can’t wrap my head around the decision to continue to watch something that’s not enjoyable when there are any number of things that you could do that would be enjoyable.


I’ll bet you aren’t a Bears fan.

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 Post subject: Re: Better Call Saul
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 11:30 pm 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
SpiralStairs wrote:
I guess I can’t wrap my head around the decision to continue to watch something that’s not enjoyable when there are any number of things that you could do that would be enjoyable.


I’ll bet you aren’t a Bears fan.

:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Better Call Saul
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 6:17 am 
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SpiralStairs wrote:
I guess I can’t wrap my head around the decision to continue to watch something that’s not enjoyable when there are any number of things that you could do that would be enjoyable.

Option A: committing my limited free time to do something I don’t like.

Option B: committing my limited free time to do something I do like.

Somehow I’m the crazy person for preferring Option B.

I put in 200 hours. I can struggle through the last 6.

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 Post subject: Re: Better Call Saul
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 6:21 am 
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SpiralStairs wrote:
I guess I can’t wrap my head around the decision to continue to watch something that’s not enjoyable when there are any number of things that you could do that would be enjoyable.

Option A: committing my limited free time to do something I don’t like.

Option B: committing my limited free time to do something I do like.

Somehow I’m the crazy person for preferring Option B.


Why do you care whether he watches the show or not? Are you his life coach?

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 Post subject: Re: Better Call Saul
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 10:16 am 
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SpiralStairs wrote:
RFDC wrote:
SpiralStairs wrote:
RFDC wrote:
Couple good scenes and the Jessie and Kim chat was nice. But overall, I was bored. These last episodes compared with the last stretch of Breaking Bad is not even close. I am pretty much ready to be done with this thing and have to force myself to watch these episodes. When BB was coming to an end there was a can't wait excitement to see them.

You’re allowed to stop watching.

I have made it this far I want to finish it out.


Why watch something you don’t like? Punch the button etc

I can relate to this.
Game of Thrones and House of Cards. Strong Starts and got to the point after a few seasons where I thought in turned to shit. I hate watched it through the end just because I was "invested" :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Better Call Saul
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 10:17 am 
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BigW72 wrote:
SpiralStairs wrote:
RFDC wrote:
SpiralStairs wrote:
RFDC wrote:
Couple good scenes and the Jessie and Kim chat was nice. But overall, I was bored. These last episodes compared with the last stretch of Breaking Bad is not even close. I am pretty much ready to be done with this thing and have to force myself to watch these episodes. When BB was coming to an end there was a can't wait excitement to see them.

You’re allowed to stop watching.

I have made it this far I want to finish it out.


Why watch something you don’t like? Punch the button etc

I can relate to this.
Game of Thrones and House of Cards. Strong Starts and got to the point after a few seasons where I thought in turned to shit. I hate watched it through the end just because I was "invested" :lol:



House of Cards was a different level. That last season was unwatchable.

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 Post subject: Re: Better Call Saul
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 10:27 am 
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RE: different level. reminds me of "mr. robot". the 1st season, decent. 2nd, awful. 3rd, a little better. 4th, dreadful.


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 Post subject: Re: Better Call Saul
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 10:39 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
BigW72 wrote:
SpiralStairs wrote:
RFDC wrote:
SpiralStairs wrote:
RFDC wrote:
Couple good scenes and the Jessie and Kim chat was nice. But overall, I was bored. These last episodes compared with the last stretch of Breaking Bad is not even close. I am pretty much ready to be done with this thing and have to force myself to watch these episodes. When BB was coming to an end there was a can't wait excitement to see them.

You’re allowed to stop watching.

I have made it this far I want to finish it out.


Why watch something you don’t like? Punch the button etc

I can relate to this.
Game of Thrones and House of Cards. Strong Starts and got to the point after a few seasons where I thought in turned to shit. I hate watched it through the end just because I was "invested" :lol:



House of Cards was a different level. That last season was unwatchable.

Agreed. Yet I still did finish it. Painful.

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