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 Post subject: Re: The Office
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2022 7:21 am 
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 Post subject: Re: The Office
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2022 8:49 am 
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I despise Pam. I despise Jim when he is with Pam. I want to punt their stupid kid with the stupid name like a beagle.

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 Post subject: Re: The Office
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2022 10:29 am 
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"Mose."

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 Post subject: Re: The Office
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2022 4:43 pm 
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Brick wrote:
I wasn't aware that Tall Midget was such a fan of the Professional-Managerial class. Dwight, with his position as Assistant Regional Manager, may actually represent the worst of that group of people as he seemingly pushed his way into power first by pushing his way into a promotion over the rest of the office by brute force but later by purchasing the building to torment the entire office and further position himself as a person of power within the office. Jim may have had questionable actions at times in his dealings with Dwight but it is clear that Jim is fighting against the class war that has been fought for decades against people in his position that simply want to be a productive worker while having no desire to enter management to the point where he accepted a wide range of supervisors after Michael left even though he clearly was a better choice to lead the Proletariat.

Dwight a landowner tho

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 Post subject: Re: The Office
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2022 4:55 pm 
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Brick wrote:
I wasn't aware that Tall Midget was such a fan of the Professional-Managerial class. Dwight, with his position as Assistant Regional Manager, may actually represent the worst of that group of people as he seemingly pushed his way into power first by pushing his way into a promotion over the rest of the office by brute force but later by purchasing the building to torment the entire office and further position himself as a person of power within the office. Jim may have had questionable actions at times in his dealings with Dwight but it is clear that Jim is fighting against the class war that has been fought for decades against people in his position that simply want to be a productive worker while having no desire to enter management to the point where he accepted a wide range of supervisors after Michael left even though he clearly was a better choice to lead the Proletariat.


Dwight aspires to be "Assistant Regional Manager" but for most of the show is "Assistant to the Regional Manager". He cannot ascend the corporate ladder even though he is the Office's best salesman because he is culturally "other". It is this "otherness" that, within the tortured logic of the show, justifies Jim's campaign of humiliation and terror against Dwight.

Even when he becomes manager (by default), he more closely identifies himself as a member of a rural subculture that exists, according to the logic of the show, only to be ridiculed.

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Last edited by Tall Midget on Mon Aug 22, 2022 4:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The Office
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2022 4:58 pm 
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Brick wrote:
I wasn't aware that Tall Midget was such a fan of the Professional-Managerial class. Dwight, with his position as Assistant Regional Manager, may actually represent the worst of that group of people as he seemingly pushed his way into power first by pushing his way into a promotion over the rest of the office by brute force but later by purchasing the building to torment the entire office and further position himself as a person of power within the office. Jim may have had questionable actions at times in his dealings with Dwight but it is clear that Jim is fighting against the class war that has been fought for decades against people in his position that simply want to be a productive worker while having no desire to enter management to the point where he accepted a wide range of supervisors after Michael left even though he clearly was a better choice to lead the Proletariat.


Jim didnt do much fighting against Charles. I think that was some long awaited clarity for Jim in realizing he had to grow up and either accept his role in a management position, or, look for something that he really wanted to do - Philly Sports Guy

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 Post subject: Re: The Office
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2022 7:08 am 
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Tall Midget wrote:
Brick wrote:
I wasn't aware that Tall Midget was such a fan of the Professional-Managerial class. Dwight, with his position as Assistant Regional Manager, may actually represent the worst of that group of people as he seemingly pushed his way into power first by pushing his way into a promotion over the rest of the office by brute force but later by purchasing the building to torment the entire office and further position himself as a person of power within the office. Jim may have had questionable actions at times in his dealings with Dwight but it is clear that Jim is fighting against the class war that has been fought for decades against people in his position that simply want to be a productive worker while having no desire to enter management to the point where he accepted a wide range of supervisors after Michael left even though he clearly was a better choice to lead the Proletariat.


Dwight aspires to be "Assistant Regional Manager" but for most of the show is "Assistant to the Regional Manager". He cannot ascend the corporate ladder even though he is the Office's best salesman because he is culturally "other". It is this "otherness" that, within the tortured logic of the show, justifies Jim's campaign of humiliation and terror against Dwight.

Even when he becomes manager (by default), he more closely identifies himself as a member of a rural subculture that exists, according to the logic of the show, only to be ridiculed.
Jim was likely the only thing that stopped Dwight from ascending to power almost instantly. Dwight was very close to getting Michael fired and taking control early on. It's hard to tell what work Jim was doing behind the scenes during that attempted coup but Jim was smart enough to know that it was only a matter of time so he had to protect Michael by any means necessary. I understand why you find the fight against management to be so distasteful but the only way to keep balance was to keep Dwight occupied until Michael chose to leave on his own likely seeing the writing on the wall where Dwight as the owner of the building was not going to be stopped forever.

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 Post subject: Re: The Office
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2022 8:45 am 
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the office was unwatchable after Steve Carrell left.

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 Post subject: Re: The Office
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2022 8:49 am 
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Brick wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
Brick wrote:
I wasn't aware that Tall Midget was such a fan of the Professional-Managerial class. Dwight, with his position as Assistant Regional Manager, may actually represent the worst of that group of people as he seemingly pushed his way into power first by pushing his way into a promotion over the rest of the office by brute force but later by purchasing the building to torment the entire office and further position himself as a person of power within the office. Jim may have had questionable actions at times in his dealings with Dwight but it is clear that Jim is fighting against the class war that has been fought for decades against people in his position that simply want to be a productive worker while having no desire to enter management to the point where he accepted a wide range of supervisors after Michael left even though he clearly was a better choice to lead the Proletariat.


Dwight aspires to be "Assistant Regional Manager" but for most of the show is "Assistant to the Regional Manager". He cannot ascend the corporate ladder even though he is the Office's best salesman because he is culturally "other". It is this "otherness" that, within the tortured logic of the show, justifies Jim's campaign of humiliation and terror against Dwight.

Even when he becomes manager (by default), he more closely identifies himself as a member of a rural subculture that exists, according to the logic of the show, only to be ridiculed.
Jim was likely the only thing that stopped Dwight from ascending to power almost instantly. Dwight was very close to getting Michael fired and taking control early on. It's hard to tell what work Jim was doing behind the scenes during that attempted coup but Jim was smart enough to know that it was only a matter of time so he had to protect Michael by any means necessary. I understand why you find the fight against management to be so distasteful but the only way to keep balance was to keep Dwight occupied until Michael chose to leave on his own likely seeing the writing on the wall where Dwight as the owner of the building was not going to be stopped forever.


You've now gone from arguing that Dwight is a member of the PMC to arguing that he would be a member of the PMC if it weren't for Jim.

I agree. Thank you for confirming that Jim is precisely the awful human being that I have previously described him as.

Jim prevents Dwight's advancement within his job because he thinks Dwight is "weird", though, as I have said, this weirdness is coded in very specific political, cultural, and class-based terms. Jim serves as the guardian of PMC cultural values, and it is those values--rather than merit--that, thank's to Jim's despicable behavior--determine one's place in the office/The Office. Jim's whole reason-for-being is to block the advancement of "others" to preserve PMC hegemony. Like the class that he defends, he is not particularly good at anything and must stoop to questionable (at best) tactics to undermine superior talent and reproduce social inequity.

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 Post subject: Re: The Office
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2022 9:05 am 
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Some cultures are better than others.

Jim’s behavior over the course of the show’s run serves to refine Dwight’s shortcomings without sacrificing his talents. By the close of the show, Dwight seemingly acknowledges this fact by making Halpert the best man in his wedding.

Without Jim, Dwight would still be the guy trying to deny female colleagues use of the bathroom or trying to takeaway health insurance from the entire office.

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 Post subject: Re: The Office
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2022 10:44 am 
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Tall Midget wrote:
Jim prevents Dwight's advancement within his job because he thinks Dwight is "weird", though, as I have said, this weirdness is coded in very specific political, cultural, and class-based terms.

Hate on Jim all you want, but to say he prevents Dwight's advancement is entirely false. Point already made...Dwight tried burning the building down in a "fire drill".
Dwight was flat out unprofessional and he absolutely ZERO ability to manage or lead the office. Had Dwight somehow ascended into management, the staff would have likely all resigned. Just because someone is an effective salesperson, does not mean they can manage / lead a team. Unrelated to Jim....Dwight repeatedly proved he was not a manager.

If you want to make a case that Jim was an evil human being, you'd be better off arguing on his treatment of Andy Bernard.

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 Post subject: Re: The Office
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2022 11:12 am 
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BigW72 wrote:
Just because someone is an effective salesperson, does not mean they can manage / lead a team.


This was an interesting underlying theme of the show, just because you are good at one thing doesn't mean you are good at something else. Michael was shown repeatedly to be a great salesman but not the best boss as his mug claimed.

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 Post subject: Re: The Office
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2022 12:46 pm 
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BigW72 wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
Jim prevents Dwight's advancement within his job because he thinks Dwight is "weird", though, as I have said, this weirdness is coded in very specific political, cultural, and class-based terms.

Hate on Jim all you want, but to say he prevents Dwight's advancement is entirely false. Point already made...Dwight tried burning the building down in a "fire drill".
Dwight was flat out unprofessional and he absolutely ZERO ability to manage or lead the office. Had Dwight somehow ascended into management, the staff would have likely all resigned. Just because someone is an effective salesperson, does not mean they can manage / lead a team. Unrelated to Jim....Dwight repeatedly proved he was not a manager.

If you want to make a case that Jim was an evil human being, you'd be better off arguing on his treatment of Andy Bernard.


Dwight becomes manager near the end of the series...after Jim decides he is no longer interested in working for Dunder-Mifflin and stops plotting against him. Dwight appears to be successful as the office manager.

It's not debatable that Jim is a despicable person. He creates a toxic office culture built around torture and humiliation. Only someone like Antioch, who views American Psycho as a self-help book, would see this type of person positively.

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 Post subject: Re: The Office
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2022 12:53 pm 
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I would like to point out that Dwight planted drugs in Toby’s desk, called in the police, and told the dispatcher that his name was Andy Bernard.

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 Post subject: Re: The Office
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2022 12:54 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
I would like to point out that Dwight planted drugs in Toby’s desk, called in the police, and told the dispatcher that his name was Andy Bernard.


He did this at Michael's behest. Let's not besmirch the guy for being loyal.

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 Post subject: Re: The Office
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2022 1:00 pm 
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Tall Midget wrote:
denisdman wrote:
I would like to point out that Dwight planted drugs in Toby’s desk, called in the police, and told the dispatcher that his name was Andy Bernard.


He did this at Michael's behest. Let's not besmirch the guy for being loyal.

Add more evidence to Dwight being a member of the PMC.

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 Post subject: Re: The Office
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2022 1:00 pm 
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Dwight insurrected both Michael and Jim. He was a conniving backstabber until Jim disabused him of his misguided self-importance.

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 Post subject: Re: The Office
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2022 1:18 pm 
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This Ends in Antioch wrote:
Dwight insurrected both Michael and Jim. He was a conniving backstabber until Jim disabused him of his misguided self-importance.

Now I know how David Kaczynski must have felt. Jesus Antioch, how could you?

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 Post subject: Re: The Office
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2022 2:18 pm 
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This Ends in Antioch wrote:
Dwight insurrected both Michael and Jim. He was a conniving backstabber until Jim disabused him of his misguided self-importance.


Yeah if you’re arguing loyalty, you cannot escape the fact that Dwight went to Jan behind Michael’s back and claimed he was at a dentist’s appointment.

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 Post subject: Re: The Office
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2022 2:28 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: The Office
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2022 4:35 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
This Ends in Antioch wrote:
Dwight insurrected both Michael and Jim. He was a conniving backstabber until Jim disabused him of his misguided self-importance.


Yeah if you’re arguing loyalty, you cannot escape the fact that Dwight went to Jan behind Michael’s back and claimed he was at a dentist’s appointment.


Dwight's loyalty to Michael was admirable but misguided.

His desire to depose Michael is certainly understandable given Michael's repeated mistreatment of Dwight combined with his wanton incompetence.

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