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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:30 am 
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Where the show improved was getting Dany out of Meereen quickly. That’s where GRRM got stuck in the books. It’s been excruciating with no end in sight.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:31 am 
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Hank Scorpio wrote:
Where the show improved was getting Dany out of Meereen quickly. That’s where GRRM got stuck in the books. It’s been excruciating with no end in sight.


Don't worry.

Winds of Winter is set to come out soon.....

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:34 am 
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Hank Scorpio wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
Hank Scorpio wrote:
Yeah. It’s very clear when this series ran out of source material and went with fan service stuff.

I liked this episode but it makes the waste of episode 1 even more glaring. This is how you do reunion and table setting.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Literally anyone on the throne at the end but Dany. She sucks so much.


Actually, a lot of the show's earlier seasons--based on Martin's novels--is pretty bad, too.

The Theon Grayjoy captivity/torture season was ponderous and pointless. That subplot could have been handled much more deftly/expeditiously.

The subplot involving Stannis and his attempt to take the throne with Melisandre's assistance was also ponderous. Stannis' character had the emotional range of a turnip, and Melisandre just stared into flames a lot. Not exactly scintillating stuff.

Finally, Arya's excursion to Bravos strained credibility. There's no way Arya should have come out alive. That subplot was based on original source material, too, right?


Well. I’d argue that the Stannis story was butchered beyond repair from the books. Also the ending was 100% show. Theon didn’t drag on as badly in the books. Arya was in Braavos for a long time but again, her crazy exit (5stab wounds to the gut) was 100% show. She’s still training in the books.


But you initially argued that the show faltered when it "ran out" of source material. That's clearly not the case. The show has always had a mixture of engaging and uninteresting characters--and the same holds true for its various interconnected subplots.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:36 am 
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Tall Midget wrote:
Hank Scorpio wrote:
Yeah. It’s very clear when this series ran out of source material and went with fan service stuff.

I liked this episode but it makes the waste of episode 1 even more glaring. This is how you do reunion and table setting.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Literally anyone on the throne at the end but Dany. She sucks so much.


Actually, a lot of the show's earlier seasons--based on Martin's novels--is pretty bad, too.

The Theon Grayjoy captivity/torture season was ponderous and pointless. That subplot could have been handled much more deftly/expeditiously.

The subplot involving Stannis and his attempt to take the throne with Melisandre's assistance was also ponderous. Stannis' character had the emotional range of a turnip, and Melisandre just stared into flames a lot. Not exactly scintillating stuff.

Finally, Arya's excursion to Bravos strained credibility. There's no way Arya should have come out alive. That subplot was based on original source material, too, right?

Agreed. It's more a disjointed collection of cool scenes and moments than actually a great show.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:37 am 
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That Ramsey - Theon stuff was so overdone.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:57 am 
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Tall Midget wrote:
Hank Scorpio wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
Hank Scorpio wrote:
Yeah. It’s very clear when this series ran out of source material and went with fan service stuff.

I liked this episode but it makes the waste of episode 1 even more glaring. This is how you do reunion and table setting.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Literally anyone on the throne at the end but Dany. She sucks so much.


Actually, a lot of the show's earlier seasons--based on Martin's novels--is pretty bad, too.

The Theon Grayjoy captivity/torture season was ponderous and pointless. That subplot could have been handled much more deftly/expeditiously.

The subplot involving Stannis and his attempt to take the throne with Melisandre's assistance was also ponderous. Stannis' character had the emotional range of a turnip, and Melisandre just stared into flames a lot. Not exactly scintillating stuff.

Finally, Arya's excursion to Bravos strained credibility. There's no way Arya should have come out alive. That subplot was based on original source material, too, right?


Well. I’d argue that the Stannis story was butchered beyond repair from the books. Also the ending was 100% show. Theon didn’t drag on as badly in the books. Arya was in Braavos for a long time but again, her crazy exit (5stab wounds to the gut) was 100% show. She’s still training in the books.


But you initially argued that the show faltered when it "ran out" of source material. That's clearly not the case. The show has always had a mixture of engaging and uninteresting characters--and the same holds true for its various interconnected subplots.


OK, ran out/went away from the source material. Like I said other than Meereen. And even that cost us Ser Barristan. The cost was too high hahaha.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:58 am 
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veganfan21 wrote:
That Ramsey - Theon stuff was so overdone.


They established how bad he was and then went totally overboard with it and then like salt bae, they sprinkled in some old fashioned wedding night rape.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:14 am 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Hank Scorpio wrote:
Yeah. It’s very clear when this series ran out of source material and went with fan service stuff.

I liked this episode but it makes the waste of episode 1 even more glaring. This is how you do reunion and table setting.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Literally anyone on the throne at the end but Dany. She sucks so much.

It is easier to write a beginning and middle than it is an end. It isn't fan service. It is racing to finish the largest story in tv history. When you have 20 or so major storylines you have to pay them off. I mean the big one in this one was closing a storyline from the start of the whole show. That isn't fan service.


They really dropped the ball on the Jamie and Bran thing. That push triggered 90% of the events south of the wall for the past eight years or whatever. Not only that, Jamie is complicit in upholding the false claims of the Lannister children/family to the throne. He's got a lot to answer for and the "trial" wasn't satisfactory at all. Instead we got several wasted scenes with Arya and the weapons dude to set up what was ultimately an irrelevant sex scene, not to mention other time-wasting dialogue that could have been used to advance/close off other compelling storylines that are integral to the overall plot.

The Arya stuff was kind of boring but Jamie got a pass because everything is on hold. I don't think that was the last time he has to answer for his past unless he dies.

To me the worst part was Jon being like "hey, we are related. Let's kill some dead guys!". Maybe wait a few days to tell her.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:36 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
Hank Scorpio wrote:
Yeah. It’s very clear when this series ran out of source material and went with fan service stuff.

I liked this episode but it makes the waste of episode 1 even more glaring. This is how you do reunion and table setting.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Literally anyone on the throne at the end but Dany. She sucks so much.


Actually, a lot of the show's earlier seasons--based on Martin's novels--is pretty bad, too.

The Theon Grayjoy captivity/torture season was ponderous and pointless. That subplot could have been handled much more deftly/expeditiously.

The subplot involving Stannis and his attempt to take the throne with Melisandre's assistance was also ponderous. Stannis' character had the emotional range of a turnip, and Melisandre just stared into flames a lot. Not exactly scintillating stuff.

Finally, Arya's excursion to Bravos strained credibility. There's no way Arya should have come out alive. That subplot was based on original source material, too, right?

Agreed. It's more a disjointed collection of cool scenes and moments than actually a great show.
No, it's a great show. The scale of the show is amazing and it's all getting tied together in a pretty satisfying way. It's like if the Sopranos not only told the story of the Sopranos but every ally and enemy they had from the start to finish. One could even argue that Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul combined are not anywhere close to as large as this show is.

For example, the entire Gus Fring saga takes place over 2 seasons + 2 episodes. The Red Wedding feels like a distant memory now and it happened in the 9th episode of the 3rd season.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:46 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Jbi11s wrote:
The show is def pushing the viewer to look at Dany as a potential villain, but not having an eye open for someone as traumatized as Sansa would be a mistake.


I agree. And I was reading some website that had gotten hold of Martin's original pitch before he had ever written the books and he said his story was centered around five main characters who live throughout the entire series. Sansa was not one of them.


I think that that the sit down between Sansa and Dany was pretty powerful where Dany told Sansa that she loved Jon(Aegon). And Arya and Robert's bastard son doing the dirty deed makes an interesting twist, namely what if Sansa dies and Jon and Dany both abdicate the throne and go off to play with their dragons to their hearts content? That would leave ArYa and Robert's bastard to rule the 7 Kingdoms? WIth Arya being the Hand of the King?

I like happy endings. :bom: :bom: :bom:

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:51 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Hank Scorpio wrote:
Yeah. It’s very clear when this series ran out of source material and went with fan service stuff.

I liked this episode but it makes the waste of episode 1 even more glaring. This is how you do reunion and table setting.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Literally anyone on the throne at the end but Dany. She sucks so much.

It is easier to write a beginning and middle than it is an end. It isn't fan service. It is racing to finish the largest story in tv history. When you have 20 or so major storylines you have to pay them off. I mean the big one in this one was closing a storyline from the start of the whole show. That isn't fan service.


They really dropped the ball on the Jamie and Bran thing. That push triggered 90% of the events south of the wall for the past eight years or whatever. Not only that, Jamie is complicit in upholding the false claims of the Lannister children/family to the throne. He's got a lot to answer for and the "trial" wasn't satisfactory at all. Instead we got several wasted scenes with Arya and the weapons dude to set up what was ultimately an irrelevant sex scene, not to mention other time-wasting dialogue that could have been used to advance/close off other compelling storylines that are integral to the overall plot.

The Arya stuff was kind of boring but Jamie got a pass because everything is on hold. I don't think that was the last time he has to answer for his past unless he dies.

To me the worst part was Jon being like "hey, we are related. Let's kill some dead guys!". Maybe wait a few days to tell her.


His revealing to her that he has a superior claim to the throne, mere moments before a battle whose success depends heavily on her willingness to risk the lives of her two remaining dragons, is just so on brand for Jon.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:54 am 
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Tall Midget wrote:
Hank Scorpio wrote:
Yeah. It’s very clear when this series ran out of source material and went with fan service stuff.

I liked this episode but it makes the waste of episode 1 even more glaring. This is how you do reunion and table setting.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Literally anyone on the throne at the end but Dany. She sucks so much.


Actually, a lot of the show's earlier seasons--based on Martin's novels--is pretty bad, too.

The Theon Grayjoy captivity/torture season was ponderous and pointless. That subplot could have been handled much more deftly/expeditiously.

The subplot involving Stannis and his attempt to take the throne with Melisandre's assistance was also ponderous. Stannis' character had the emotional range of a turnip, and Melisandre just stared into flames a lot. Not exactly scintillating stuff.

Finally, Arya's excursion to Bravos strained credibility. There's no way Arya should have come out alive. That subplot was based on original source material, too, right?


I disagree. The Bravos stuff established Arya as the biggest badass in the show. Her ability to conceal her identity I think is going to be a huge key in the outcome of the show. Now that spear she had her lover make is also going to be pretty interesting. Think about this angle. Lets say that the Night King rains fire and brimstone down while riding that dragon he has and Arya uses that spear to pick the fucker off of the back of that Dragon? I think that this is going to be the end of the Night King and his army after it looks like they are all going to fall.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:18 pm 
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Should Westeros eliminate what amounts to an "Electoral College"? I mean, why should a handful of dumb hillbillies residing on vast tracts of mostly empty land in the North have equal say with the millions of smarter people living on the coast in King's Landing? Burn the North!

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:21 pm 
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I'm surprised the SJW's of Westeros hadn't made a bigger deal about the lack of female knights prior to Brienne of Tarth breaking the glass ceiling that Hillary of Park Ridge was unable to.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:35 pm 
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It certainly feels like they are setting up the deaths of Brienne, Jaime, Grey Worm, Theon, and Mormont for this next episode. I think it's going to be some sort of stalemate in the the battle where the living realize they can' t win with pure force so they find some sort of MacGuffin way to trick the Night King into revealing himself, and they kill him. Sounds like Bran as the bait is how they are going to do it. Not sure why he would not stay in the back and let superior numbers work, but they will contrive a reason why.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:05 pm 
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Does Bran have pencils and an eraser?

Could take out the Night King that way.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:24 pm 
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We're going to find out something stupid like the Night King being a Stark

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:30 pm 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
We're going to find out something stupid like the Night King being a Stark

That’s been the most popular theory for over 3 years now.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:35 pm 
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Jbi11s wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
We're going to find out something stupid like the Night King being a Stark

That’s been the most popular theory for over 3 years now.

and it's precisely the type of idea that is dumb enough for them to add into the show.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:36 pm 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Jbi11s wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
We're going to find out something stupid like the Night King being a Stark

That’s been the most popular theory for over 3 years now.

and it's precisely the type of idea that is dumb enough for them to add into the show.

What would be your ideal Night King backstory?

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:47 pm 
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Jbi11s wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Jbi11s wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
We're going to find out something stupid like the Night King being a Stark

That’s been the most popular theory for over 3 years now.

and it's precisely the type of idea that is dumb enough for them to add into the show.

What would be your ideal Night King backstory?

Night King = Zombie Jesus.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 4:22 pm 
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Theon is the worst character in the show, his storyline is brutal. They beat the torture scenes to death. I've always hated Dany, bad job at casting. Her scenes are brutal as well.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:32 pm 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Jbi11s wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
We're going to find out something stupid like the Night King being a Stark

That’s been the most popular theory for over 3 years now.

and it's precisely the type of idea that is dumb enough for them to add into the show.


The Night King was created by the children and the guy who built the wall was a Stark so there's probably a connection there.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:07 pm 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
We're going to find out something stupid like the Night King being a Stark



He is the same house of Jon and Danny.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:42 pm 
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It’d be better if he was a Stark imo.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:14 pm 
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Jbi11s wrote:
It’d be better if he was a Stark imo.


The Stark that built the wall was named Bran. So there's the Bran connection.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:30 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
Hank Scorpio wrote:
Yeah. It’s very clear when this series ran out of source material and went with fan service stuff.

I liked this episode but it makes the waste of episode 1 even more glaring. This is how you do reunion and table setting.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Literally anyone on the throne at the end but Dany. She sucks so much.


Actually, a lot of the show's earlier seasons--based on Martin's novels--is pretty bad, too.

The Theon Grayjoy captivity/torture season was ponderous and pointless. That subplot could have been handled much more deftly/expeditiously.

The subplot involving Stannis and his attempt to take the throne with Melisandre's assistance was also ponderous. Stannis' character had the emotional range of a turnip, and Melisandre just stared into flames a lot. Not exactly scintillating stuff.

Finally, Arya's excursion to Bravos strained credibility. There's no way Arya should have come out alive. That subplot was based on original source material, too, right?

Agreed. It's more a disjointed collection of cool scenes and moments than actually a great show.
No, it's a great show. The scale of the show is amazing and it's all getting tied together in a pretty satisfying way. It's like if the Sopranos not only told the story of the Sopranos but every ally and enemy they had from the start to finish. One could even argue that Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul combined are not anywhere close to as large as this show is.

For example, the entire Gus Fring saga takes place over 2 seasons + 2 episodes. The Red Wedding feels like a distant memory now and it happened in the 9th episode of the 3rd season.


I have to laugh at people who are so very critical of this show and love to nitpick the minutia. This is the greatest piece of television greatness ever put together. The enormity of the scenes, the acting, storytelling, etc. has never been seen in especially a limited season format.

I also have to credit the storytellers quite a bit because Martin never finished his story so they had to make the ending up on their own. I think that for the most part they tried their best to follow the book but reached a conclusion that Martin wasn't going to deliver so they had to adapt things. My guess is that they would have preferred that Martin would have finished his book and to try to stretch the number of episodes accordingly but didn't have that luxury. And with the actors and actresses anxious to branch out also, the end gets cramped at the end. But so what? It is all very good story telling and fantasy to me.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:33 pm 
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Kirkwood wrote:
I’m entertained. No complaints here. Enjoyed the comedic relief from this episode.


Yep. And I loved the look on Brienne when she got knighted. That, after, she couldn't help to feel queasy about the big redhead wanted to spend the night with her before they all die. :bom: :bom: :bom:

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:51 pm 
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I'm telling you, Arya is going to pick off the Night King off of that dragon with her newly forged spear and the white walkers will all die off. It might happen when the Night King and his dragon attack Dany and Snow on theirs. This might also be a scenario where the Red Witch brings Dany back to life after dying in the fight. How's that for speculation?

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The Hawk wrote:
I'm telling you, Arya is going to pick off the Night King off of that dragon with her newly forged spear and the white walkers will all die off. It might happen when the Night King and his dragon attack Dany and Snow on theirs. This might also be a scenario where the Red Witch brings Dany back to life after dying in the fight. How's that for speculation?


The Night King's purpose extends beyond just dying from a spear attack.

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