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 Post subject: American Sniper
PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:11 pm 
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I keep seeing these trailers on TV. Looks like a war movie where dude cries like a bitch for 3 hours and repeatedly says "I'm coming home". I saw no hints of bad ass sniping.

Looks bad. Really bad.


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 Post subject: Re: American Sniper
PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:24 pm 
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It seems far too "critically acclaimed" for a movie that isn't even out yet. It may be fine, just looks like a movie I have no interest in seeing.


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 Post subject: Re: American Sniper
PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:27 pm 
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Hockey Gay wrote:
I keep seeing these trailers on TV. Looks like a war movie where dude cries like a bitch for 3 hours and repeatedly says "I'm coming home". I saw no hints of bad ass sniping.

Looks bad. Really bad.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: American Sniper
PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 8:38 pm 
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I think it's become standard now to have the american military movie of the year to come out at this time and it'll be this way for the next few years.

we can't ever deny our jingoism.


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 Post subject: Re: American Sniper
PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 10:53 pm 
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Hockey Gay wrote:
I keep seeing these trailers on TV. Looks like a war movie where dude cries like a bitch for 3 hours and repeatedly says "I'm coming home". I saw no hints of bad ass sniping.

Looks bad. Really bad.

The George McCaskey story

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 Post subject: Re: American Sniper
PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 10:58 pm 
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Bradley Cooper should be hot but I don't think he is.


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 Post subject: Re: American Sniper
PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 11:12 pm 
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I am interested in his story. Clint Eastwood sat with his dad to no make it stupid. Bernsie types will shit on it. Jingoism is a dumb word while some dude is killing people to let you say it.

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 Post subject: Re: American Sniper
PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 12:22 am 
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A jury said kyle was a liar regarding punching out Jessie Ventura. How many more lies are in his book? And people that brag about their accomplishments are usually greedy douche bags.


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 Post subject: Re: American Sniper
PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 7:34 am 
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pittmike wrote:
Jingoism is a dumb word while some dude is killing people to let you say it.


yeah ok...


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 Post subject: Re: American Sniper
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 2:37 pm 
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Just saw it on IMAX.
The previews don't do it justice.
Best movie I've seen in a long time.

If you're a MSNBC / Bernstein type don't bother you'll hate it.

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 Post subject: Re: American Sniper
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 2:38 pm 
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bigfan wrote:
Hockey Gay wrote:
I keep seeing these trailers on TV. Looks like a war movie where dude cries like a bitch for 3 hours and repeatedly says "I'm coming home". I saw no hints of bad ass sniping.

Looks bad. Really bad.

The George McCaskey story


10/10

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 Post subject: Re: American Sniper
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 4:17 pm 
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Spaulding wrote:
Bradley Cooper should be hot but I don't think he is.


It's ok he doesn't even like girls.

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 Post subject: Re: American Sniper
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 5:12 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: American Sniper
PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 8:14 am 
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Q.Bovifs wrote:
Bernstein said something like this dude made a lot of this shit up and was a serial liar.

Did his guy at Halas Hall tell him that?


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 Post subject: Re: American Sniper
PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 9:23 am 
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Q.Bovifs wrote:
Bernstein said something like this dude made a lot of this shit up and was a serial liar.


he had a lot of self proclaimed titles. i have heard good things about the movie, in that you're not supposed to like the guy. but this is not topping my list of movies to see this season.


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 Post subject: Re: American Sniper
PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 9:44 am 
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American Sniper might be a lot of BS. If an author lies about one incident what's to keep him about lying about anything else?

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/3 ... -j-delgado

Jesse Ventura, former Navy SEAL (yes, he really was), pro-wrestler, Minnesota governor, and TV host, prevailed Tuesday in his defamation suit against the late Navy SEAL Chris Kyle. A jury awarded Ventura $1.845 million over a passage in Kyle’s 2012 book American Sniper, in which Kyle recounts a 2006 fight inside a bar after a fallen serviceman’s wake. Kyle wrote that he and his group encountered a character named “Scruff Face,” who insulted George W. Bush, slammed the Iraq War, and even added the horrific sneer that SEALs “deserved to lose a few.” A fight ensued and, according to Kyle, “being level-headed and calm can last only so long.”

“I laid him out,” he writes. “Tables flew. Stuff happened. Scruff Face ended up on the floor.” He added that Scruff Face reportedly had a black eye the next day.

Kyle should have perhaps left it at that. But during his book tour stop on the Opie and Anthony show, he identified “Scruff Face” as none other than Jesse Ventura. He repeated the claim again in another interview with Fox News.

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The news transformed Ventura into one of the most hated men in America and persona non grata in the military and veteran communities. TV-show deals for Ventura, who had developed a career as a television host with a penchant for exploring conspiracy theories, reportedly dried up as a result.

But then a curious thing happened: Ventura immediately came forth, not issuing the standard press release with a banal denial but rather resolutely and categorically denying he ever made such statements, and affirming that he was never knocked in that California bar or was never in any altercation with Kyle.

Someone here was clearly lying — but who?

For those of us paying attention, Kyle’s story seemed fishy from the get-go. Why would Ventura make such remarks in the company of friends and fellow SEALs, especially those who were at a bar as part of a wake for a fallen warrior? Only a hair-raisingly evil person would say they “deserve to lose a few,” much less to men who have just buried a fellow soldier. While Ventura has been quite publicly critical of both Bush and much U.S. policy (and, for the record, I am not excusing his views), hatred of individual servicemen is a whole other ballgame.

But, this was Chris Kyle, a war hero (!), and thus all blindly believed him.

Ventura asked for a retraction and an apology. He received none. So he proceeded with a defamation lawsuit.

Legal experts claimed Ventura had no shot. A widow crying on the stand? Too sympathetic. A decorated war hero who was tragically killed (in an unrelated accident after Ventura filed suit)? Too sympathetic. Ventura was facing an almost insurmountable uphill battle in an already tricky area of the law.

Once the trial actually began, however, the truth began to emerge. For instance, Kyle, who sat for a lengthy video deposition prior to his death, was inconsistent in his story, described by one local reporter with the following headline: “In video deposition, author trips up on fight details in Ventura libel suit.” The Minneapolis Star-Tribune describes the testimony:

Afternoon testimony may have shifted some sympathy to Ventura’s side. In the deposition, videotaped a year before his death, Chris Kyle said he could not remember who told him that Ventura had hit his head when he fell to the sidewalk, could not recall how he learned that Ventura had a black eye, and conceded that tables did not go “flying” during the 2006 confrontation in a bar near San Diego, which he described in his book “American Sniper.”

After a thorough trial, in which the jury listened to multiple witnesses from both sides, the jury found in favor of Ventura, finding Kyle had indeed defamed the former wrestler. The court awarded Ventura more than $1.8 million (far lower than the amount Ventura sought), consisting of $500,000 for defamation damages and an additional $1.3 million for “unjust enrichment” (meaning that Kyle and his estate wrongly profited from said defamation). The book publisher’s libel insurance will cover the $500,000.

Social media, even journalists, became downright hysterical, insulting Ventura and making knee-jerk defenses of Kyle — so hysterical, in fact, that facts and logic were outright nonexistent.

Consider a few of the frantic claims, along with the facts:

MYTH: He sued a widow! What a monster!

CNN’s Anderson Cooper got in on the outrage game, tweeting: “I cannot believe that Jesse Ventura successfully sued the widow of a fallen Navy SEAL. Has he no shame?”

Whoa, there. Ventura sued Kyle in 2012. Kyle died, tragically, about a year later. The lawsuit then shifted to Chris Kyle’s estate, for which his wife, Taya, is the executor. It is utterly normal for a lawsuit to shift onto the estate, especially when the estate has profited from the issue in dispute. Considering Taya herself has profited from the book (earnings are estimated at a whopping $6 million, thanks to royalties and rights), it stands to reason that the shift is appropriate.

Consider this: A decorated veteran publishes a book saying he fought with someone in a bar after hearing the man say he worshiped the devil and/or thinks child molesters are fine. During the book tour, the author is asked to identify the monster and names you. It makes headlines, helping propel the book’s sales. You file a defamation suit and, roughly a year later, the author/veteran unexpectedly dies. His multimillion dollar estate goes to his wife, an estate largely consisting of profits from the book that defamed you. Do you drop the suit?

Of course not.

MYTH: The jury must have gotten it wrong.

Yes, juries sometimes get it wrong. (Though, statistics show, not often – if you want stupidity, check out judges’ findings.) But common sense would tell you that Ventura’s case must have been exceptionally strong and Kyle’s case extremely weak if the jury held in favor of Ventura. Defamation is notoriously hard to prove, and juries do not easily find against a young widow (who cried on the stand multiple times) or a fallen war hero, let alone both.

MYTH: It’s just a case of he said vs. he said so we have no way of knowing who lied.

Actually no. There were multiple witnesses, called by both sides. Clearly, the jury found Ventura’s witnesses believable and not Kyle’s.

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 Post subject: Re: American Sniper
PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 7:29 pm 
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Note to self.
Whatever a jury decides is correct. Isn't that Grand.

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 Post subject: Re: American Sniper
PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 8:49 pm 
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jimmypasta wrote:
American Sniper might be a lot of BS. If an author lies about one incident what's to keep him about lying about anything else?

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/3 ... -j-delgado

Jesse Ventura, former Navy SEAL (yes, he really was), pro-wrestler, Minnesota governor, and TV host, prevailed Tuesday in his defamation suit against the late Navy SEAL Chris Kyle. A jury awarded Ventura $1.845 million over a passage in Kyle’s 2012 book American Sniper, in which Kyle recounts a 2006 fight inside a bar after a fallen serviceman’s wake. Kyle wrote that he and his group encountered a character named “Scruff Face,” who insulted George W. Bush, slammed the Iraq War, and even added the horrific sneer that SEALs “deserved to lose a few.” A fight ensued and, according to Kyle, “being level-headed and calm can last only so long.”

“I laid him out,” he writes. “Tables flew. Stuff happened. Scruff Face ended up on the floor.” He added that Scruff Face reportedly had a black eye the next day.

Kyle should have perhaps left it at that. But during his book tour stop on the Opie and Anthony show, he identified “Scruff Face” as none other than Jesse Ventura. He repeated the claim again in another interview with Fox News.

Advertisement

The news transformed Ventura into one of the most hated men in America and persona non grata in the military and veteran communities. TV-show deals for Ventura, who had developed a career as a television host with a penchant for exploring conspiracy theories, reportedly dried up as a result.

But then a curious thing happened: Ventura immediately came forth, not issuing the standard press release with a banal denial but rather resolutely and categorically denying he ever made such statements, and affirming that he was never knocked in that California bar or was never in any altercation with Kyle.

Someone here was clearly lying — but who?

For those of us paying attention, Kyle’s story seemed fishy from the get-go. Why would Ventura make such remarks in the company of friends and fellow SEALs, especially those who were at a bar as part of a wake for a fallen warrior? Only a hair-raisingly evil person would say they “deserve to lose a few,” much less to men who have just buried a fellow soldier. While Ventura has been quite publicly critical of both Bush and much U.S. policy (and, for the record, I am not excusing his views), hatred of individual servicemen is a whole other ballgame.

But, this was Chris Kyle, a war hero (!), and thus all blindly believed him.

Ventura asked for a retraction and an apology. He received none. So he proceeded with a defamation lawsuit.

Legal experts claimed Ventura had no shot. A widow crying on the stand? Too sympathetic. A decorated war hero who was tragically killed (in an unrelated accident after Ventura filed suit)? Too sympathetic. Ventura was facing an almost insurmountable uphill battle in an already tricky area of the law.

Once the trial actually began, however, the truth began to emerge. For instance, Kyle, who sat for a lengthy video deposition prior to his death, was inconsistent in his story, described by one local reporter with the following headline: “In video deposition, author trips up on fight details in Ventura libel suit.” The Minneapolis Star-Tribune describes the testimony:

Afternoon testimony may have shifted some sympathy to Ventura’s side. In the deposition, videotaped a year before his death, Chris Kyle said he could not remember who told him that Ventura had hit his head when he fell to the sidewalk, could not recall how he learned that Ventura had a black eye, and conceded that tables did not go “flying” during the 2006 confrontation in a bar near San Diego, which he described in his book “American Sniper.”

After a thorough trial, in which the jury listened to multiple witnesses from both sides, the jury found in favor of Ventura, finding Kyle had indeed defamed the former wrestler. The court awarded Ventura more than $1.8 million (far lower than the amount Ventura sought), consisting of $500,000 for defamation damages and an additional $1.3 million for “unjust enrichment” (meaning that Kyle and his estate wrongly profited from said defamation). The book publisher’s libel insurance will cover the $500,000.

Social media, even journalists, became downright hysterical, insulting Ventura and making knee-jerk defenses of Kyle — so hysterical, in fact, that facts and logic were outright nonexistent.

Consider a few of the frantic claims, along with the facts:

MYTH: He sued a widow! What a monster!

CNN’s Anderson Cooper got in on the outrage game, tweeting: “I cannot believe that Jesse Ventura successfully sued the widow of a fallen Navy SEAL. Has he no shame?”

Whoa, there. Ventura sued Kyle in 2012. Kyle died, tragically, about a year later. The lawsuit then shifted to Chris Kyle’s estate, for which his wife, Taya, is the executor. It is utterly normal for a lawsuit to shift onto the estate, especially when the estate has profited from the issue in dispute. Considering Taya herself has profited from the book (earnings are estimated at a whopping $6 million, thanks to royalties and rights), it stands to reason that the shift is appropriate.

Consider this: A decorated veteran publishes a book saying he fought with someone in a bar after hearing the man say he worshiped the devil and/or thinks child molesters are fine. During the book tour, the author is asked to identify the monster and names you. It makes headlines, helping propel the book’s sales. You file a defamation suit and, roughly a year later, the author/veteran unexpectedly dies. His multimillion dollar estate goes to his wife, an estate largely consisting of profits from the book that defamed you. Do you drop the suit?

Of course not.

MYTH: The jury must have gotten it wrong.

Yes, juries sometimes get it wrong. (Though, statistics show, not often – if you want stupidity, check out judges’ findings.) But common sense would tell you that Ventura’s case must have been exceptionally strong and Kyle’s case extremely weak if the jury held in favor of Ventura. Defamation is notoriously hard to prove, and juries do not easily find against a young widow (who cried on the stand multiple times) or a fallen war hero, let alone both.

MYTH: It’s just a case of he said vs. he said so we have no way of knowing who lied.

Actually no. There were multiple witnesses, called by both sides. Clearly, the jury found Ventura’s witnesses believable and not Kyle’s.
Mr. Belvidere wrote:
A jury said kyle was a liar regarding punching out Jessie Ventura. How many more lies are in his book? And people that brag about their accomplishments are usually greedy douche bags.



Pretty much what I said.


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 Post subject: Re: American Sniper
PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 9:13 pm 
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Any tangible proof the the wartime side of the his accounts were riddled with falsehoods and tall tales?


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 Post subject: Re: American Sniper
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 10:20 am 
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I was wrong.
I've now decided the movie sucks. My bad.
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My uncle killed by sniper in WW2. We were taught snipers were cowards. Will shoot u in the back. Snipers aren't heroes. And invaders r worse
M. Moore.

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 Post subject: Re: American Sniper
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 10:25 am 
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These USA snipers are nothing but a bunch of White rednecks......

well...most of them.

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 Post subject: Re: American Sniper
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 3:23 pm 
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The Reaper:

http://www.ijreview.com/2015/01/234929- ... ate-class/

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 Post subject: Re: American Sniper
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 4:21 pm 
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https://storify.com/RaniaKhalek/america ... -own-words

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 Post subject: Re: American Sniper
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 4:40 pm 
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Chus wrote:
https://storify.com/RaniaKhalek/american-sniper-chris-kyle-in-his-own-words


What's the problem?

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 Post subject: Re: American Sniper
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 4:41 pm 
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Chus wrote:
https://storify.com/RaniaKhalek/american-sniper-chris-kyle-in-his-own-words

:lol:
The portion of the book this person chose to highlight doesn't do much of anything to help sharpen the narrative axe she is trying to grind.


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 Post subject: Re: American Sniper
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 4:44 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
Chus wrote:
https://storify.com/RaniaKhalek/american-sniper-chris-kyle-in-his-own-words


What's the problem?


I saw it on twitter right after I read this thread, so I posted it. Take from it what you want.

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 Post subject: Re: American Sniper
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 4:56 pm 
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ok

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 Post subject: Re: American Sniper
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 5:06 pm 
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SomeGuy wrote:
Chus wrote:
https://storify.com/RaniaKhalek/american-sniper-chris-kyle-in-his-own-words

:lol:
The portion of the book this person chose to highlight doesn't do much of anything to help sharpen the narrative axe she is trying to grind.


She disagrees with the glorification of a psychopathic, killing machine. The movie tells one story, she tells another.

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 Post subject: Re: American Sniper
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 5:22 pm 
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Chus wrote:
SomeGuy wrote:
Chus wrote:
https://storify.com/RaniaKhalek/american-sniper-chris-kyle-in-his-own-words

:lol:
The portion of the book this person chose to highlight doesn't do much of anything to help sharpen the narrative axe she is trying to grind.


She disagrees with the glorification of a psychopathic, killing machine. The movie tells one story, she tells another.


You believe him to be both?


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 Post subject: Re: American Sniper
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 5:33 pm 
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SomeGuy wrote:
Chus wrote:
SomeGuy wrote:
Chus wrote:
https://storify.com/RaniaKhalek/american-sniper-chris-kyle-in-his-own-words

:lol:
The portion of the book this person chose to highlight doesn't do much of anything to help sharpen the narrative axe she is trying to grind.


She disagrees with the glorification of a psychopathic, killing machine. The movie tells one story, she tells another.


You believe him to be both?


Psychopath and killing machine? Yes.

Abusing animals, and seeing everything in black and white, with no gray areas, doesn't speak to a mentally sound individual. His love of blood and death seem to indicate psychopathic tendencies. The killing machine part can't really be disputed. The author certainly has gone nuclear here, but I see her point.

I don't have a dog in this fight. I never had any interest in this movie, to begin with, but I haven't seen a movie in a theater since The Hangover in 2009.

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