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 Post subject: Re: Stuart Scott
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:24 am 
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Nas wrote:
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I never found his street tales to be authentic. He began touting West Coast affiliations that he never really had. I never found his music to be a true depiction of ghetto life. It wasn't gritty enough for me and on some level he attempted to romanticize a lifestyle that he was only superficially familiar with.


It wasn't a true depiction? Wow! I was still a kid then and EVERYTHING he raped about I either saw or heard about. That's why the streets loved him.

I found Biggie Smalls stuff to be far more authentic. If you listen to What's Beef Ten Crack Commandments and other songs he wrote you got the feeling he'd actually lived it. With Tupac it seemed disingenuous. I'm old enough to remember Same Song.

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 Post subject: Re: Stuart Scott
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:27 am 
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Just because he got hate mail does not mean he was polarizing. There are racists and bigots in this world that will write stuff regardless. Mike Greenberg has talked about how he has received anti semi tic hate mail. He says it occurs on a daily basis. Is he polarizing? I don't recall there ever being a movement to get Stuart Scott off ESPN.


It wasn't just the hate mail. His bosses and colleagues didn't like it either and he was threatened with termination if he didn't stop. He disarmed them with kindness and the ratings took care of the rest.

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 Post subject: Re: Stuart Scott
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:30 am 
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long time guy wrote:
Nas wrote:
long time guy wrote:
I never found his street tales to be authentic. He began touting West Coast affiliations that he never really had. I never found his music to be a true depiction of ghetto life. It wasn't gritty enough for me and on some level he attempted to romanticize a lifestyle that he was only superficially familiar with.


It wasn't a true depiction? Wow! I was still a kid then and EVERYTHING he raped about I either saw or heard about. That's why the streets loved him.

I found Biggie Smalls stuff to be far more authentic. If you listen to What's Beef Ten Crack Commandments and other songs he wrote you got the feeling he'd actually lived it. With Tupac it seemed disingenuous. I'm old enough to remember Same Song.


He was telling people the best way to sell crack and 2pac told stories to get people to understand why they shouldn't sell crack. I remember him from the underground. That doesn't change the message he was delivering. Again listen to the link above.

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 Post subject: Re: Stuart Scott
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:31 am 
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Nas wrote:
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I don't know which Tupac songs that you remember but you need to go back through his collection a little bit more. If having a tattoo with Thug Life on your chest is not a glorification of that life I don't what is. I'm actually not knocking him for that but I just never felt he'd truly lived that life. He had some studio gangsta qualities to him that were off setting for me.


It was a sales job. People will listen to people that they can relate to or understands them before they listen to anyone else. He appeared to understand that. Even in the songs that you believe is glorifying street life he's delivering positive messages. I still listen to all of his music. There is still a lot of truth to it 20+ years later. I would suggest that you listen to the link I shared earlier in the thread but it's unlikely we are going to agree on this.



You keep talking about glorifying Thug Life. You're missing the point. I don't have a problem with him rapping about that life if he'd actually lived it. I just never believed that he lived it. He attempted to capitalize on a style of music that was hot at the time. He got on board with the crew that was the hottest crew in the game at the time as a way of selling records. I viewed him in the same light as I viewed other guys from that era who rapped about a gangster lifestyle that they hadn't lived. That's where the term studio gangster originated.

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 Post subject: Re: Stuart Scott
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:34 am 
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Did you read the details of the rape case involving 2Pac? You may have a different view if you'd read that. Where is the positivity in that?

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 Post subject: Re: Stuart Scott
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:34 am 
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Who cares? Hand-wringing about "authenticity" in any genre of music is a fool's errand. Judge him on the work.

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 Post subject: Re: Stuart Scott
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:39 am 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Who cares? Hand-wringing about "authenticity" in any genre of music is a fool's errand. Judge him on the work.


I grew up listening to rap music and I am from the ghetto and to the people from that world you better believe that authenticity matters. No one likes a phony motherfucker

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 Post subject: Re: Stuart Scott
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:40 am 
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long time guy wrote:
Nas wrote:
long time guy wrote:

I don't know which Tupac songs that you remember but you need to go back through his collection a little bit more. If having a tattoo with Thug Life on your chest is not a glorification of that life I don't what is. I'm actually not knocking him for that but I just never felt he'd truly lived that life. He had some studio gangsta qualities to him that were off setting for me.


It was a sales job. People will listen to people that they can relate to or understands them before they listen to anyone else. He appeared to understand that. Even in the songs that you believe is glorifying street life he's delivering positive messages. I still listen to all of his music. There is still a lot of truth to it 20+ years later. I would suggest that you listen to the link I shared earlier in the thread but it's unlikely we are going to agree on this.



You keep talking about glorifying Thug Life. You're missing the point. I don't have a problem with him rapping about that life if he'd actually lived it. I just never believed that he lived it. He attempted to capitalize on a style of music that was hot at the time. He got on board with the crew that was the hottest crew in the game at the time as a way of selling records. I viewed him in the same light as I viewed other guys from that era who rapped about a gangster lifestyle that they hadn't lived. That's where the term studio gangster originated.


He never said that he did any of those things. He was sharing stories of the street and trying to get people to understand why people did certain things. At the same time trying to get people to see why those things are bad for their community. He didn't jump on any crew because it was hot. He made Death Row. What are you talking about?

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 Post subject: Re: Stuart Scott
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:43 am 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Who cares? Hand-wringing about "authenticity" in any genre of music is a fool's errand. Judge him on the work.

Let's judge him on the work. Bomb first, Hit em up, America's most wanted, Soldier Soldier were all about drugs and shooting people. There was no positivity in any of that. In one of the songs he is lying by all accounts about fucking Biggie Smalls wife. Where is the positivity in a guy that lies on his dick?

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 Post subject: Re: Stuart Scott
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:44 am 
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Nas wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Nas wrote:
long time guy wrote:

I don't know which Tupac songs that you remember but you need to go back through his collection a little bit more. If having a tattoo with Thug Life on your chest is not a glorification of that life I don't what is. I'm actually not knocking him for that but I just never felt he'd truly lived that life. He had some studio gangsta qualities to him that were off setting for me.


It was a sales job. People will listen to people that they can relate to or understands them before they listen to anyone else. He appeared to understand that. Even in the songs that you believe is glorifying street life he's delivering positive messages. I still listen to all of his music. There is still a lot of truth to it 20+ years later. I would suggest that you listen to the link I shared earlier in the thread but it's unlikely we are going to agree on this.



You keep talking about glorifying Thug Life. You're missing the point. I don't have a problem with him rapping about that life if he'd actually lived it. I just never believed that he lived it. He attempted to capitalize on a style of music that was hot at the time. He got on board with the crew that was the hottest crew in the game at the time as a way of selling records. I viewed him in the same light as I viewed other guys from that era who rapped about a gangster lifestyle that they hadn't lived. That's where the term studio gangster originated.


He never said that he did any of those things. He was sharing stories of the street and trying to get people to understand why people did certain things. At the same time trying to get people to see why those things are bad for their community. He didn't jump on any crew because it was hot. He made Death Row. What are you talking about?
It's obvious you don't know your history.

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 Post subject: Re: Stuart Scott
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:45 am 
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long time guy wrote:
Did you read the details of the rape case involving 2Pac? You may have a different view if you'd read that. Where is the positivity in that?


It was a setup by the same people who shot him the first time. He wasn't willing to pay them anymore. For the last time listen to the link.

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 Post subject: Re: Stuart Scott
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:46 am 
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I'm confident about my history. Suge went to prison to sign him on a napkin.

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 Post subject: Re: Stuart Scott
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:47 am 
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Dr. Dre and Snoop were with Death Row well before Tupac came along. It was already established. They were already established

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 Post subject: Re: Stuart Scott
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:48 am 
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Nas wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Did you read the details of the rape case involving 2Pac? You may have a different view if you'd read that. Where is the positivity in that?


It was a setup by the same people who shot him the first time. He wasn't willing to pay them anymore. For the last time listen to the link.
I don't know what the link is supposed to prove. I will listen to it but it won't be now. I'm well versed in 2pac history.

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 Post subject: Re: Stuart Scott
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:51 am 
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Nas wrote:
I'm confident about my history. Suge went to prison to sign him on a napkin.


Apparently not. The Chronic album established Death Row records. That was written about 3 yrs before they signed 2Pac

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 Post subject: Re: Stuart Scott
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:51 am 
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long time guy wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
Who cares? Hand-wringing about "authenticity" in any genre of music is a fool's errand. Judge him on the work.

Let's judge him on the work. Bomb first, Hit em up, America's most wanted, Soldier Soldier were all about drugs and shooting people. There was no positivity in any of that. In one of the songs he is lying by all accounts about fucking Biggie Smalls wife. Where is the positivity in a guy that lies on his dick?


What happened at the end of Soldier? None of those glorified drugs and you using a diss track as an example of something is hilarious.

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 Post subject: Re: Stuart Scott
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:53 am 
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long time guy wrote:
Nas wrote:
I'm confident about my history. Suge went to prison to sign him on a napkin.


Apparently not. The Chronic album established Death Row records. That was written about 3 yrs before they signed 2Pac


Made doesn't mean created. Made means he blew it up. He was the hottest rapper. Not Snoop or Dre. Suge provided the protection he needed.

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 Post subject: Re: Stuart Scott
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:56 am 
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Nas wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
Who cares? Hand-wringing about "authenticity" in any genre of music is a fool's errand. Judge him on the work.

Let's judge him on the work. Bomb first, Hit em up, America's most wanted, Soldier Soldier were all about drugs and shooting people. There was no positivity in any of that. In one of the songs he is lying by all accounts about fucking Biggie Smalls wife. Where is the positivity in a guy that lies on his dick?


What happened at the end of Soldier? None of those glorified drugs and you using a diss track as an example of something is hilarious.


Just in case you forgot his ultimate message was that wanting to be a soldier will end in death or prison.

http://genius.com/2pac-souljas-story-lyrics

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 Post subject: Re: Stuart Scott
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:58 am 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Who cares? Hand-wringing about "authenticity" in any genre of music is a fool's errand. Judge him on the work.

I hate to play the cultural card but it is obvious that you aren't familiar with Rap genre. The term studio gangster was created as a way of ridiculing guys that pretended to be gangsters while they made rap music. When you ask who cares about authenticity? Obviously a number of Rappers and rap magazines because that became a running joke during the 90's

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 Post subject: Re: Stuart Scott
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 12:00 pm 
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Nas wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Nas wrote:
I'm confident about my history. Suge went to prison to sign him on a napkin.


Apparently not. The Chronic album established Death Row records. That was written about 3 yrs before they signed 2Pac


Made doesn't mean created. Made means he blew it up. He was the hottest rapper. Not Snoop or Dre. Suge provided the protection he needed.


huh? I think you now need to check a thesaurus

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 Post subject: Re: Stuart Scott
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 12:07 pm 
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Nas wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Nas wrote:
I'm confident about my history. Suge went to prison to sign him on a napkin.


Apparently not. The Chronic album established Death Row records. That was written about 3 yrs before they signed 2Pac


Made doesn't mean created. Made means he blew it up. He was the hottest rapper. Not Snoop or Dre. Suge provided the protection he needed.


Dr. Dre was the top producer in the industry well before 2Pac came along. Every artist he touched at the time hit it big. In fact while you are talking about you tube and documentaries you need to watch the videos regarding the origins of the Biggie Tupac beef. Tupac was on tape basically admitting if I remember right, about how he was envious of Biggie Smalls record sells. He started the beef with Biggie to sell records. His sells took off once he got with Dre. It wasn't the other way around

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 Post subject: Re: Stuart Scott
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 12:49 pm 
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Nas wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
Who cares? Hand-wringing about "authenticity" in any genre of music is a fool's errand. Judge him on the work.

Let's judge him on the work. Bomb first, Hit em up, America's most wanted, Soldier Soldier were all about drugs and shooting people. There was no positivity in any of that. In one of the songs he is lying by all accounts about fucking Biggie Smalls wife. Where is the positivity in a guy that lies on his dick?


What happened at the end of Soldier? None of those glorified drugs and you using a diss track as an example of something is hilarious.


You're making a lot if excuses. You stated that he didn't talk about shooting people. I gave you examples of just that and now you're spinning it. There were a lot of people that believed the stuff about Faith and from an etiquette stuff a man's wife should be off limits. I'm glad that you can simply chalk it up as a diss track. Maybe you should ask her if it was just a diss track. She actually was asked about the stuff on camera and found herself answering questions about something she should not have had to answer. I'm glad to know it was hilarious. Thanks

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 Post subject: Re: Stuart Scott
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:22 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
Who cares? Hand-wringing about "authenticity" in any genre of music is a fool's errand. Judge him on the work.

I hate to play the cultural card but it is obvious that you aren't familiar with Rap genre. The term studio gangster was created as a way of ridiculing guys that pretended to be gangsters while they made rap music. When you ask who cares about authenticity? Obviously a number of Rappers and rap magazines because that became a running joke during the 90's


How do you know that he isn't black? You don't need to be black to understand the origins of gangster rap or rap in general.

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 Post subject: Re: Stuart Scott
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:24 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
Nas wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Nas wrote:
I'm confident about my history. Suge went to prison to sign him on a napkin.


Apparently not. The Chronic album established Death Row records. That was written about 3 yrs before they signed 2Pac


Made doesn't mean created. Made means he blew it up. He was the hottest rapper. Not Snoop or Dre. Suge provided the protection he needed.


huh? I think you now need to check a thesaurus


Context is very important. 2pac made Death Row what it was. He was the most popular rapper. Not Dre or Snoop. Snoop even acknowledged that on Pac's Life.

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 Post subject: Re: Stuart Scott
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:30 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
Nas wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
Who cares? Hand-wringing about "authenticity" in any genre of music is a fool's errand. Judge him on the work.

Let's judge him on the work. Bomb first, Hit em up, America's most wanted, Soldier Soldier were all about drugs and shooting people. There was no positivity in any of that. In one of the songs he is lying by all accounts about fucking Biggie Smalls wife. Where is the positivity in a guy that lies on his dick?


What happened at the end of Soldier? None of those glorified drugs and you using a diss track as an example of something is hilarious.


You're making a lot if excuses. You stated that he didn't talk about shooting people. I gave you examples of just that and now you're spinning it. There were a lot of people that believed the stuff about Faith and from an etiquette stuff a man's wife should be off limits. I'm glad that you can simply chalk it up as a diss track. Maybe you should ask her if it was just a diss track. She actually was asked about the stuff on camera and found herself answering questions about something she should not have had to answer. I'm glad to know it was hilarious. Thanks


He's not talking about he shot anyone in that song. He's telling a story of a kid that dreams of living the street life. He describes how that dream usually ends. How do you miss that? Also I never said he didn't talk about shooting people. You're making stuff up again. I said he never said he sold drugs or shot someone. That is true. He painted vivid pictures of the lives many black people lived through his music.

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 Post subject: Re: Stuart Scott
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:32 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Who cares? Hand-wringing about "authenticity" in any genre of music is a fool's errand. Judge him on the work.



But you have to be able to sell it. Fogerty had never seen the Mississippi when he wrote "Proud Mary" but he made you believe he was Huck Finn.

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 Post subject: Re: Stuart Scott
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 2:48 pm 
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Nas wrote:
He's not talking about he shot anyone in that song. He's telling a story of a kid that dreams of living the street life. He describes how that dream usually ends. How do you miss that? Also I never said he didn't talk about shooting people. You're making stuff up again. I said he never said he sold drugs or shot someone. That is true. He painted vivid pictures of the lives many black people lived through his music.


Since I helped start this back up & I have a minute, I'll clarify my position on Tupac. From very limited experience personally and a shitload of second half stories from guys I trust, I knew/believed him to be only as tough as the body guards around him. Like a poodle with a safe fence. The other problem I had with him after he blew up was that he forgot the stories he was telling weren't really his own, but his take on those of the actual hard asses around him.

He (imo) wasn't even as tough as his mom or the group around her. I really think that that was it. It wasn't unusual for the kids of old Panthers/Weathermen/etc. to start to talk tough as hell once everyone around them had already heard the messages of their (Tupac, et al) parents' generation falling on disinterested ears. They all seemingly had the ability to tell really interesting stories, but many of the kids like Tupac seemed to need to portray themselves as if they first hand were part of some harder struggle. Then many of them seemed to get lost in kind of an alternate reality.

Tupac wanted it both ways. He wanted to be hard, at least as hard as his mother, but it wasn't in the little guy. The real hard asses he surrounded himself with, he paid to tell their stories and adopt them as his own. Imo.

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 Post subject: Re: Stuart Scott
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
Who cares? Hand-wringing about "authenticity" in any genre of music is a fool's errand. Judge him on the work.



But you have to be able to sell it. Fogerty had never seen the Mississippi when he wrote "Proud Mary" but he made you believe he was Huck Finn.

I just remembered I hate Mumford & Sons. Now what do I do with that post I made?

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 Post subject: Re: Stuart Scott
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 3:11 pm 
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Nas wrote:
He's not talking about he shot anyone in that song. He's telling a story of a kid that dreams of living the street life. He describes how that dream usually ends. How do you miss that? Also I never said he didn't talk about shooting people. You're making stuff up again. I said he never said he sold drugs or shot someone. That is true. He painted vivid pictures of the lives many black people lived through his music.


Since I helped start this back up & I have a minute, I'll clarify my position on Tupac. From very limited experience personally and a shitload of second half stories from guys I trust, I knew/believed him to be only as tough as the body guards around him. Like a poodle with a safe fence. The other problem I had with him after he blew up was that he forgot the stories he was telling weren't really his own, but his take on those of the actual hard asses around him.

He (imo) wasn't even as tough as his mom or the group around her. I really think that that was it. It wasn't unusual for the kids of old Panthers/Weathermen/etc. to start to talk tough as hell once everyone around them had already heard the messages of their (Tupac, et al) parents' generation falling on disinterested ears. They all seemingly had the ability to tell really interesting stories, but many of the kids like Tupac seemed to need to portray themselves as if they first hand were part of some harder struggle. Then many of them seemed to get lost in kind of an alternate reality.

Tupac wanted it both ways. He wanted to be hard, at least as hard as his mother, but it wasn't in the little guy. The real hard asses he surrounded himself with, he paid to tell their stories and adopt them as his own. Imo.


I don't doubt he wasn't as tough as his mother. I think he had the heart even if he didn't have the physical strength to back his words up. He wasn't running from fights. In fact as he talked about in the link I posted he was more of a movement brother trying to learn and connect to the streets.

The stories he told in his lyrics weren't repackaged to get the listener to believe he did these things. He was letting the people in the black communities know that he felt their pain and shared their anger. Most of the time he was rapping about how those things would lead to death or prison. In my opinion his ultimate goal was to empower and educate the black youth. That's what I get from his lyrics.

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 Post subject: Re: Stuart Scott
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 3:18 pm 
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Nas wrote:
The stories he told in his lyrics weren't repackaged to get the listener to believe he did these things. He was letting the people in the black communities know that he felt their pain and shared their anger. Most of the time he was rapping about how those things would lead to death or prison. In my opinion his ultimate goal was to empower and educate the black youth. That's what I get from his lyrics.


From his lyrics, generally yes. From much of the rest of his life (& public promotion), you got an entirely different perception. In the beginning, he was always talking about a more noble goal & to an extent it seemed genuine. Once his appetites, the Bishop Magic Don Juan, the Playas Ball & Suge were his whole world, it seemed a bit more contrived.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.


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