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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:01 pm 
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Carolla (and probably every other podcaster will join) is doing a crowdfunding thing for legal fees against patent trolls.


He's pretty much the main cog and if he goes down, all the other podcasts are fucked.


Should be interesting to follow this story


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:06 pm 
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patent trolls?

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:08 pm 
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Hank Scorpio wrote:
patent trolls?

Yes. Lawyers, mostly, who buy patents they have no intention of ever using just in case someone does use them and then they sue.

They are pretty much suing Carolla for selling ANYthing on the internet


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:40 pm 
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Maron too.
They basically are claiming that some patent they own from 1992 is the basis of all podcasting so pay them or prepare to go to court.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:42 pm 
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I guess I dont see why they are trolls. If they have the patent, they are entitled to some compensation.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:46 pm 
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Hank Scorpio wrote:
I guess I dont see why they are trolls. If they have the patent, they are entitled to some compensation.

I would say read more into it.


It's a pretty shady practice at best. The spirit of the patent system is to help inventors and innovators.


Also, if they win, the price of a lot of stuff you get for free is going up.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:47 pm 
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For one, they are not even using their patent. Here's an explanation of what is going on:
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/05/help-save-podcasting

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:49 pm 
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Hank Scorpio wrote:
I guess I dont see why they are trolls. If they have the patent, they are entitled to some compensation.
The problem is that they don't really have a patent that would win. They have a patent good enough to cost you a lot of money in legal fees fighting it. It's extortion.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:50 pm 
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So they invented the technology but couldnt make it work? Someone else came along and stole their ideas but did it better. I dont listen/care about podcasts so I vote for giving the patent holders their money.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:53 pm 
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Hank Scorpio wrote:
So they invented the technology but couldnt make it work?

If they couldn't make it work, did they invent something?

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:54 pm 
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Hank Scorpio wrote:
So they invented the technology but couldnt make it work? Someone else came along and stole their ideas but did it better. I dont listen/care about podcasts so I vote for giving the patent holders their money.
No. They are stupid patents that likely won't hold up in court. It will just cost you thousands or millions of dollars to fight it unless you pay them.

https://www.eff.org/issues/resources-patent-troll-victims

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:54 pm 
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Hank Scorpio wrote:
So they invented the technology but couldnt make it work? Someone else came along and stole their ideas but did it better. I dont listen/care about podcasts so I vote for giving the patent holders their money.

I DARE you to read 3 articles on it and come back here and say the same thing.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:55 pm 
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Psycory wrote:
Hank Scorpio wrote:
So they invented the technology but couldnt make it work?

If they couldn't make it work, did they invent something?


Sure they came up with the technology. Just couldnt put it all together to make money.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:57 pm 
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Hank Scorpio wrote:
Psycory wrote:
Hank Scorpio wrote:
So they invented the technology but couldnt make it work?

If they couldn't make it work, did they invent something?


Sure they came up with the technology. Just couldnt put it all together to make money.

No, they didnt.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:59 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Hank Scorpio wrote:
So they invented the technology but couldnt make it work? Someone else came along and stole their ideas but did it better. I dont listen/care about podcasts so I vote for giving the patent holders their money.

I DARE you to read 3 articles on it and come back here and say the same thing.



I dont care enough to. If they have problem with the manner in which patents are issued take it up with the US patent office. If not dont complain when someone uses the system to their advantage.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:59 pm 
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Hank Scorpio wrote:
Psycory wrote:
Hank Scorpio wrote:
So they invented the technology but couldnt make it work?

If they couldn't make it work, did they invent something?


Sure they came up with the technology. Just couldnt put it all together to make money.
The thing is that most of these patent trolls bought the patent from someone else, and the patent likely won't stand up in court. It's taking advantage of patents that either aren't relevant or wouldn't stand up in court. Some of these are literally so bad that they are like "recording voice and putting in on a weblink".

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:00 pm 
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A legal system already bogged down by an unmanageable number of cases is seeing a rise in the number of patent infringement suits filed nationwide.

While many are legitimate fights by patent holders to protect their rights, legal experts say they see an alarming number of filings by non-practicing entities (NPEs), or patent trolls.

Though there are a variety of strategies employed by NPEs, here’s the general idea: A business buys a bunch of patents, preferably ones with broad business use, and then sends out letters — often thousands — to companies informing them that they are infringing on the patent. There is usually an offer to settle the dispute — the cost to a company can range from $5,000 to $1 million and up — with the threat of litigation if the money isn’t paid.

Opponents of such practices say the tactics amount to little more than extortion.
Congress agrees. Last month, the House of Representatives overwhelmingly passed the Innovation Act to curb the tactics of patent trolls. And in New York, Attorney General Eric Schneiderman came down hard last week on one NPE and promised to go after others.
But defenders of the practice say it’s a matter of free enterprise. If a company has the cash and purchases a patent, it has every right to enforce it, regardless of whether it intends to ever act on the patent.

Robert Lane, a partner in Hodgson Russ LLP, specializes in intellectual property litigation. He said the firm represents small and medium-sized companies that are vulnerable to patent trolls.
“The strategy is often to threaten a large number of these smaller companies, settle with them for cost of defense to build a big war chest and then use that to finance litigation against large, national companies,” Lane said.

An issue is the cost of fighting a patent infringement case, he said — litigation expenses can top $1 million. For many, it is easier and more economical to pay the demands of the trolls and continue.
“It is the most corrosive part of the process that we see with our clients — (patent trolls) going after them because they are most disadvantaged by the cost of litigation and strong-arming them into paying for meritless cases,” Lane said.
Michael Berchou, partner in the Buffalo office of Phillips Lytle LLP, said he recently settled a troll case and is working on another. He has seen a number of clients who received demand letters from NPEs. He agreed that many clients simply settle as the course of least resistance.
“There is a company out there that has 30 or so patents that cover anyone who is using Wi-Fi in their office,” he said. “A company like that is looking for maybe five or 10 grand. Although you can initially try to dodge them, ultimately, if you are on their radar, there is simply no way you could defend that for 10 grand, so you are going to pay that.”
Berchou said people hear the phrase “patent trolls” and think of a small, back-room type of organization. Quite the opposite, he said.

“You have topnotch, nationally known attorneys on many of these cases and they do very detailed analysis in advance of pursuing these claims,” he said. “They have given a lot of thought to what defendants they are going to go after and strategically how to attack.”

Legislative protection
An anti-troll bill dubbed the Innovation Act is making its way through Congress and U.S. attorneys general are working to curb such activity, but Lane and others warn that any legislative response is likely to come with risk.

“This current legislation is aimed at sweeping in these non-practicing entities, but how will it distinguish those from, for example, a university, which is not in a commercial business and won’t be practicing their patent but will be licensing it?” he said.
“It’s the kind of thing where it is easy for us to define in an informal conversation, but when it comes to writing a law, it can be a problem.”
Berchou agreed, saying such legislation runs the risk of “punishing” not just universities but solo inventors who may hold a patent but lack funding to take it to market.
“I could see scenarios where it would dissuade them from making a legitimate claim,” he said. “The difficulty is finding a way to effectively legislate some limits on these shell companies without hurting legitimate patent holders.

From the bench
With such seemingly suspicious methods used to collect from would-be infringers, how do the courts react to patent trolls when a case makes it to litigation?
The experts say that depends on where the case is filed. Patent trolls are adept at finding the courts most likely to offer favorable conditions for a troll fight. Berchou said it varies from court to court.
“Some (courts) are more sophisticated and some less on this issue, but given that we are now at a point where more than half of the cases that are being across the country are being filed by trolls, all of the districts are taking notice,” he said.
Savvy trolls do their homework and study where to file, according to Lane.
“Some of the judges are very hostile to them, and that’s why they tend to select the venues where that is less likely to be the case,” he said.
“The Eastern District of Texas is famous for being a patent troll venue. They have rules that are fairly friendly to the patent trolls in terms of how they process the cases.”

Free enterprise?
Back to the opening question raised by defenders of NPEs: Isn’t this just free enterprise?
Someone owns the patent and they have the right to defend it regardless of why they bought it or what, if anything, they plan to do with it.
Opinions vary.

Said Lane: “I think that would be a fair argument if not for the reality that what’s really going on in many of these instances is an effort to exploit the expense of the legal system and the order of procedure in these cases to force defendants to settle.”
Rebecca Stadler, meanwhile, is managing partner of DelVecchio & Stadler LLP, a Buffalo firm that specializes in patent applications. She said there’s nothing wrong with the existence of the NPEs and their efforts to enforce the patents they hold.
“I’m not entirely certain why this is such a concern,” she said. “(NPEs) are enforcing the rights they have been granted by the patent, so I get a little troubled with all of the concern about so-called patent trolls when you are dealing with intellectual property. But when you are talking about real property, there is never that debate.”
Stadler said just because a patent holder isn’t using a patent they own shouldn’t make it fair game for others.
“I’m not using my car right now, so does that mean someone else can just go take it and drive it? I think making it harder for people to enforce their patents could hurt some of our smaller inventors, or certainly the universities,” she said.
While frivolous lawsuits are filed, there are means in place in the legal system to deal with them, she added. As for the rest of the patent suits, it’s free enterprise.
“Why is the patent troll the bad guy when the defendant is actually the one that has infringed the patent?” Stadler said. “The patent troll is made out to be the bad guy when they weren’t the one that was infringing.”


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:01 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Hank Scorpio wrote:
Psycory wrote:
Hank Scorpio wrote:
So they invented the technology but couldnt make it work?

If they couldn't make it work, did they invent something?


Sure they came up with the technology. Just couldnt put it all together to make money.
The thing is that most of these patent trolls bought the patent from someone else, and the patent likely won't stand up in court. It's taking advantage of patents that either aren't relevant or wouldn't stand up in court. Some of these are literally so bad that they are like "recording voice and putting in on a weblink".


That sounds like an issue to take up with the people issuing patents not with the people that are taking advantage of the sloppy patent work.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:01 pm 
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Hank Scorpio wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Hank Scorpio wrote:
So they invented the technology but couldnt make it work? Someone else came along and stole their ideas but did it better. I dont listen/care about podcasts so I vote for giving the patent holders their money.

I DARE you to read 3 articles on it and come back here and say the same thing.



I dont care enough to. If they have problem with the manner in which patents are issued take it up with the US patent office. If not dont complain when someone uses the system to their advantage.

Did you actively decide to start posting as ignorantly as you can?


You couldnt be further away from the reality of the situation.


Are you just taking up for the rich guy here, because of how unfair everything is to him?


Last edited by rogers park bryan on Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:01 pm 
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Hank Scorpio wrote:
I dont care enough to. If they have problem with the manner in which patents are issued take it up with the US patent office. If not dont complain when someone uses the system to their advantage.
No offense, but don't seem to understand the actual issue here. You aren't a patent troll if it's a legitimate patent claim. You are if you are extorting them because it is cheaper to settle than it is to fight it in court and win.

Imagine I sued you for something with the only idea to get you to settle out of court with me because I have more money to spend on legal fees(funded by previous litigation).

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:02 pm 
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Hank Scorpio wrote:
That sounds like an issue to take up with the people issuing patents not with the people that are taking advantage of the sloppy patent work.
This has to be a bit now. :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:02 pm 
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SOunds like congress is working to fix it. Until then dont blame the people for being opportunistic.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:03 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Hank Scorpio wrote:
That sounds like an issue to take up with the people issuing patents not with the people that are taking advantage of the sloppy patent work.
This has to be a bit now. :lol:

Yeap, Hank is trolling for the trolls.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:06 pm 
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Trolls as in the people that are using loopholes in a bad patent system?

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:09 pm 
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Hank Scorpio wrote:
Trolls as in the people that are using loopholes in a bad patent system?

There is no point in responding to your admitted ignorance.

Keep on trollin


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:13 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Did you actively decide to start posting as ignorantly as you can?


You couldnt be further away from the reality of the situation.


Are you just taking up for the rich guy here, because of how unfair everything is to him?


Are you going to donate to Carolla so he can battle these rich people? I know how broke Carolla is...


I'm just saying that these people are legally in the right. They sound like assholes but what can you do. They are gaming the system. Fix the system.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:14 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:

Imagine I sued you for something with the only idea to get you to settle out of court with me because I have more money to spend on legal fees(funded by previous litigation).


Well I would call you an asshole but if you were legally entitled to do so, then I would probably be screwed.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:15 pm 
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as long as the patent holders can get their case in front of a jury, they have a shot:

http://gigaom.com/2012/08/27/3-reasons- ... nt-system/

The patent trolls want $3 mil, Carolla should counter-offer for $2 mil and be done with it. He says legal fees are likely to run $1.5 mil to defend it. There's a shot they'll spend that and still lose
and end up having to pay a lot more, treble damages and what not.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:15 pm 
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Hank Scorpio wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Did you actively decide to start posting as ignorantly as you can?


You couldnt be further away from the reality of the situation.


Are you just taking up for the rich guy here, because of how unfair everything is to him?


Are you going to donate to Carolla so he can battle these rich people? I know how broke Carolla is...

I might. I like listening to podcasts for free. If I can help keep it free, I will.


Hank Scorpio wrote:
I'm just saying that these people are legally in the right. They sound like assholes but what can you do. They are gaming the system. Fix the system.

The system is being fixed.

You seem to be saying "If it's legal, it's ok"

That's a terrible way to think.


If Blackmail wasnt specifically illegal, would you also be cool with that?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:18 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Hank Scorpio wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Did you actively decide to start posting as ignorantly as you can?


You couldnt be further away from the reality of the situation.


Are you just taking up for the rich guy here, because of how unfair everything is to him?


Are you going to donate to Carolla so he can battle these rich people? I know how broke Carolla is...

I might. I like listening to podcasts for free. If I can help keep it free, I will.


Hank Scorpio wrote:
I'm just saying that these people are legally in the right. They sound like assholes but what can you do. They are gaming the system. Fix the system.

The system is being fixed.

You seem to be saying "If it's legal, it's ok"

That's a terrible way to think.


If Blackmail wasnt specifically illegal, would you also be cool with that?


No, I'm saying they found a loophole and are using it. It isnt right but you cant pick and choose which patents will be honored based on if someone is being a DB. Once the patent system is corrected to address this issue then there wont be trolls anymore.

THis isnt blackmail. They own patents.

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