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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2024 3:10 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
BD, please explain why Fields is immune from being benched next year. You have not addressed any of the statistics depicting Fields as the 42nd best QB in the fourth quarter on numerous metrics, perhaps because it undermines your "he's making progress" canard.


If he regresses, sure, he could get benched.

If he's in Atlanta, who's he realistically being benched for? They aren't drafting a QB in Round 1 (or probably at all) if they trade for him. I think he'd get every last chance to succeed. Of course, if he plays horrible in the 4th quarter, can't make late/turnovers, the pressure will rebuild in a new city. He needs to improve his play to get a long-term deal in Atlanta (or elsewhere). To some degree, he's on a trial, but he's simply a better option for a team trying to win next year than the rest of the available options for a team like Atlanta (excluding Cousins).


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2024 3:13 pm 
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What performance metric can you point to that demonstrates that he can lead teams to playoff contention?

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2024 3:13 pm 
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BD wrote:
WestmontMike wrote:
BigW72 wrote:
BD wrote:
Fields is better than most of the available options and did show progress down the stretch. If you're comparing him to an elite QB, you're going to complain about his performance. I have Fields at 15-20 with upside, you're looking at a "data" ranking and have him at 22. It's not a big difference in our overall view, but would you rather have Joe Flacco? Russ Wilson? Jimmy G? Kirk Cousins? Which rookies?

Be specific.

I'll play....
I'd take Cousins over Fields.


Specifically, I'd take any of those options over Fields.


Cousins is a better option than Fields if he wasn't older and coming off an ACL. I would still understand the argument if we're talking about a 1 year type deal. So, yes, Cousins has clearly outperformed Fields, but there are risks there.

If you're arguing that Russell Willison, Jimmy G, or Flacco are better than Fields heading into next year, I think it's more than likely that all 3 of them are benched next season for any team depending on them (or Jimmy G's case, injured). These guys are hitched with a rookie draft pick. Nobody is signing any of these guys to be anything other than a temp starter/dependable backup once that rookie is ready.

Fields is different - nobody is trading for him with the intention of drafting someone, this year, to replace him.


Injury is a concern for everyone, so that can't be the deciding factor. Even the great Justin Fields has missed time every year due to injury.
If you're telling me that I can get any of the veteran quarterbacks mentioned and still draft a quarterback but if I keep Fields, then I can't draft a quarterback, wouldn't that be more of a reason to move on from Fields?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2024 3:14 pm 
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Hussra wrote:
BD wrote:
If you're arguing that Russell Willison, Jimmy G, or Flacco are better than Fields heading into next year, I think it's more than likely that all 3 of them are benched next season for any team depending on them (or Jimmy G's case, injured). These guys are hitched with a rookie draft pick. Nobody is signing any of these guys to be anything other than a temp starter/dependable backup once that rookie is ready.



Heard some of that during the GM interviews last couple days. Folks talking about the Alex Smith-Mahomes model of the terminally mediocre veteran to man the ship for a season or two (or 5 in Alex Smith's case @KC) and still draft a QB so you don't throw a rookie QB out there right away who might benefit from acclimating to the pro game/lifestyle before being tasked with carrying the franchise.



It's going to be a hard sell for Atlanta to sign Russell Wilson after Denver cuts him and claim they have upgraded the position. They would have to spend a 1st round pick on McCarthy/etc. The same goes for Denver, Las Vegas, Pittsburgh or Minnesota (depending on Cousins). If any of these QB's lasted and played well next season, it would be a surprise. It's much more likely that they would continue to regress/injury etc.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2024 3:15 pm 
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BD wrote:
Hussra wrote:
BD wrote:
If you're arguing that Russell Willison, Jimmy G, or Flacco are better than Fields heading into next year, I think it's more than likely that all 3 of them are benched next season for any team depending on them (or Jimmy G's case, injured). These guys are hitched with a rookie draft pick. Nobody is signing any of these guys to be anything other than a temp starter/dependable backup once that rookie is ready.



Heard some of that during the GM interviews last couple days. Folks talking about the Alex Smith-Mahomes model of the terminally mediocre veteran to man the ship for a season or two (or 5 in Alex Smith's case @KC) and still draft a QB so you don't throw a rookie QB out there right away who might benefit from acclimating to the pro game/lifestyle before being tasked with carrying the franchise.



It's going to be a hard sell for Atlanta to sign Russell Wilson after Denver cuts him and claim they have upgraded the position. They would have to spend a 1st round pick on McCarthy/etc. The same goes for Denver, Las Vegas, Pittsburgh or Minnesota (depending on Cousins). If any of these QB's lasted and played well next season, it would be a surprise. It's much more likely that they would continue to regress/injury etc.


Wilson outplayed Fields last year.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2024 3:16 pm 
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WestmontMike wrote:
BD wrote:
WestmontMike wrote:
BigW72 wrote:
BD wrote:
Fields is better than most of the available options and did show progress down the stretch. If you're comparing him to an elite QB, you're going to complain about his performance. I have Fields at 15-20 with upside, you're looking at a "data" ranking and have him at 22. It's not a big difference in our overall view, but would you rather have Joe Flacco? Russ Wilson? Jimmy G? Kirk Cousins? Which rookies?

Be specific.

I'll play....
I'd take Cousins over Fields.


Specifically, I'd take any of those options over Fields.


Cousins is a better option than Fields if he wasn't older and coming off an ACL. I would still understand the argument if we're talking about a 1 year type deal. So, yes, Cousins has clearly outperformed Fields, but there are risks there.

If you're arguing that Russell Willison, Jimmy G, or Flacco are better than Fields heading into next year, I think it's more than likely that all 3 of them are benched next season for any team depending on them (or Jimmy G's case, injured). These guys are hitched with a rookie draft pick. Nobody is signing any of these guys to be anything other than a temp starter/dependable backup once that rookie is ready.

Fields is different - nobody is trading for him with the intention of drafting someone, this year, to replace him.


Injury is a concern for everyone, so that can't be the deciding factor. Even the great Justin Fields has missed time every year due to injury.
If you're telling me that I can get any of the veteran quarterbacks mentioned and still draft a quarterback but if I keep Fields, then I can't draft a quarterback, wouldn't that be more of a reason to move on from Fields?


Do you expect the Falcons to trade a 2nd round pick for Fields AND draft a QB in Round 1?

Do you expect the Falcons to sign Russell Wilson, but also draft the QB of the future in Round 1?

The answer is yes to only one of these.

Anyone trading for Fields is somewhat expecting him to be their QB going forward (for at least 2 years).


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2024 3:16 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
BD wrote:
Hussra wrote:
BD wrote:
If you're arguing that Russell Willison, Jimmy G, or Flacco are better than Fields heading into next year, I think it's more than likely that all 3 of them are benched next season for any team depending on them (or Jimmy G's case, injured). These guys are hitched with a rookie draft pick. Nobody is signing any of these guys to be anything other than a temp starter/dependable backup once that rookie is ready.



Heard some of that during the GM interviews last couple days. Folks talking about the Alex Smith-Mahomes model of the terminally mediocre veteran to man the ship for a season or two (or 5 in Alex Smith's case @KC) and still draft a QB so you don't throw a rookie QB out there right away who might benefit from acclimating to the pro game/lifestyle before being tasked with carrying the franchise.



It's going to be a hard sell for Atlanta to sign Russell Wilson after Denver cuts him and claim they have upgraded the position. They would have to spend a 1st round pick on McCarthy/etc. The same goes for Denver, Las Vegas, Pittsburgh or Minnesota (depending on Cousins). If any of these QB's lasted and played well next season, it would be a surprise. It's much more likely that they would continue to regress/injury etc.


Wilson outplayed Fields last year.


I don't think anyone would take Russell Wilson over Justin Fields.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2024 3:19 pm 
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BD wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
BD wrote:
Hussra wrote:
BD wrote:
If you're arguing that Russell Willison, Jimmy G, or Flacco are better than Fields heading into next year, I think it's more than likely that all 3 of them are benched next season for any team depending on them (or Jimmy G's case, injured). These guys are hitched with a rookie draft pick. Nobody is signing any of these guys to be anything other than a temp starter/dependable backup once that rookie is ready.



Heard some of that during the GM interviews last couple days. Folks talking about the Alex Smith-Mahomes model of the terminally mediocre veteran to man the ship for a season or two (or 5 in Alex Smith's case @KC) and still draft a QB so you don't throw a rookie QB out there right away who might benefit from acclimating to the pro game/lifestyle before being tasked with carrying the franchise.



It's going to be a hard sell for Atlanta to sign Russell Wilson after Denver cuts him and claim they have upgraded the position. They would have to spend a 1st round pick on McCarthy/etc. The same goes for Denver, Las Vegas, Pittsburgh or Minnesota (depending on Cousins). If any of these QB's lasted and played well next season, it would be a surprise. It's much more likely that they would continue to regress/injury etc.


Wilson outplayed Fields last year.


I don't think anyone would take Russell Wilson over Justin Fields.


The only advantage Fields has over Wilson is that Fields has never lost in the playoffs. Since you're saying the teams that want to trade for a QB need make the playoffs this year, I guess you're saying they should go for the guy who's never lost in the playoffs over Wilson.

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Last edited by veganfan21 on Wed Feb 28, 2024 3:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2024 3:19 pm 
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Wouldn't expect a team that trades draft capital for a QB to spend more draft capital on a QB this draft.

A team that brings in a beyond their prime veteran (Jimmy G, Russell Wilson Athletic Wear, Cousins) free agent might trade back into the end of round 1 to take a QB they really like who is still on the board (for the extra year of control? i think that's how that works).


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2024 3:28 pm 
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Hussra wrote:
badrogue17 wrote:
The Hawk wrote:
. Trading the pick would return six to eight starting and/or pro bowl caliber players


:lol: :lol: What ?



Bears fleece Washington and swap 1st overall for 2nd overall, pick up 2nd overall, 2025 1st, 2026 1st, another 2nd round swap and maybe an additional later round swap + swap Bagent for Sam Howell:

Bears get 3 firsts (Washington's 2024, 2025, 2026) improved position potentially with 2nd++ rd pick(s) and an upgrade at backup.

Redskins get a guy who cries watching Disney movies and has to stand on tip-toes to ride the better rides at Six Flags.

Bears next trade the 2nd overall to some other team (whatever QB needy teams don't trade for Fields or sign Cousins et al) for a lesser haul than they got for 1st overall.



should net +5 quality picks over 24-26 drafts, or 6 to 8 if the Bears are willing to take chuff back.


Bears then take best QB still on the board with the 7th (Titans can't really think Levis is the answer) or 8th (if ATL doesn't trade for Fields or whomever) or Jets (cuz Jets) at 10, Viqueens at 12 might wanna draft a QB even if they resign Cousins, Denver (desperate for a new QB) NO should be drafting a QB, but won't, same for Indy, Seattle, Jacksonville and LA Rams and even Pittsburgh. Even Tampa Bay might be in QB drafting market if Baker bolts.


there's like 6 teams max fully sorted at QB or who shouldn't be thinking about Jordan Lovin' their aging starter.


Bears spend the next 50 years looking for the franchise QB they passed up in back to back drafts. :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2024 3:28 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
What performance metric can you point to that demonstrates that he can lead teams to playoff contention?



Q-- | Cmp% | TD | INT | RATE

1st 75.22 | 5 | 2 | 103.7

2nd 69.31 | 12 | 8 | 96.6

3rd 69.08 | 6 | 1 | 98.9

4th 55.94 | 4 | 3 | 71.7


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2024 3:30 pm 
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Juiced wrote:

Bears spend the next 50 years looking for the franchise QB they passed up in back to back drafts. :lol:


or maybe it's not the QB drafted: it's the franchise doing the drafting who the QB then plays for that matters--would Brock Purdy be Brock Purdy on the Bears


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2024 3:34 pm 
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Hussra wrote:
Juiced wrote:

Bears spend the next 50 years looking for the franchise QB they passed up in back to back drafts. :lol:


or maybe it's not the QB drafted: it's the franchise doing the drafting who the QB then plays for that matters--would Brock Purdy be Brock Purdy on the Bears


Brock Purdy is not a franchise QB. He is a system QB who was outplayed by Mahomes in the SB. Would Andy Reid be Andy Reid without Mahomes? Would Belichick be Belichick without T.Brady?

We can play this game all day long. Would P.Jackson be Phil wihout Kobe and Jordan? Riley without Magic and Wade?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2024 3:35 pm 
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parkins and meatpants are saying there is a video out from Fields manager saying something about "are you ready to go home?" and Fields starts jumping up and down

*now already saying that video maybe old :lol:

What a mess

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2024 3:37 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
parkins and meatpants are saying there is a video out from Fields manager saying something about "are you ready to go home?" and Fields starts jumping up and down


Nothingburger. Those are just preventative therapies Fields does to counteract the effect of all the violent sacks he runs into during the season.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2024 3:58 pm 
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BD wrote:
WestmontMike wrote:
BD wrote:
WestmontMike wrote:
BigW72 wrote:
BD wrote:
Fields is better than most of the available options and did show progress down the stretch. If you're comparing him to an elite QB, you're going to complain about his performance. I have Fields at 15-20 with upside, you're looking at a "data" ranking and have him at 22. It's not a big difference in our overall view, but would you rather have Joe Flacco? Russ Wilson? Jimmy G? Kirk Cousins? Which rookies?

Be specific.

I'll play....
I'd take Cousins over Fields.


Specifically, I'd take any of those options over Fields.


Cousins is a better option than Fields if he wasn't older and coming off an ACL. I would still understand the argument if we're talking about a 1 year type deal. So, yes, Cousins has clearly outperformed Fields, but there are risks there.

If you're arguing that Russell Willison, Jimmy G, or Flacco are better than Fields heading into next year, I think it's more than likely that all 3 of them are benched next season for any team depending on them (or Jimmy G's case, injured). These guys are hitched with a rookie draft pick. Nobody is signing any of these guys to be anything other than a temp starter/dependable backup once that rookie is ready.

Fields is different - nobody is trading for him with the intention of drafting someone, this year, to replace him.


Injury is a concern for everyone, so that can't be the deciding factor. Even the great Justin Fields has missed time every year due to injury.
If you're telling me that I can get any of the veteran quarterbacks mentioned and still draft a quarterback but if I keep Fields, then I can't draft a quarterback, wouldn't that be more of a reason to move on from Fields?


Do you expect the Falcons to trade a 2nd round pick for Fields AND draft a QB in Round 1?

Do you expect the Falcons to sign Russell Wilson, but also draft the QB of the future in Round 1?

The answer is yes to only one of these.

Anyone trading for Fields is somewhat expecting him to be their QB going forward (for at least 2 years).


Why do I care what Atlanta does with Fields (or anyone else, for that matter)?
He can be the starter, the back-up, or he can drive the team bus. I don't care. Just get him off the Bears roster.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2024 4:10 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
parkins and meatpants are saying there is a video out from Fields manager saying something about "are you ready to go home?" and Fields starts jumping up and down

*now already saying that video maybe old :lol:

What a mess



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2024 4:43 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
parkins and meatpants are saying there is a video out from Fields manager saying something about "are you ready to go home?" and Fields starts jumping up and down

*now already saying that video maybe old :lol:

What a mess

Did he give him a treat after he sat up too ?

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2024 4:58 pm 
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Caller Bob wrote:
RFDC wrote:
parkins and meatpants are saying there is a video out from Fields manager saying something about "are you ready to go home?" and Fields starts jumping up and down

*now already saying that video maybe old :lol:

What a mess


I get the Chicago Bears are a disgrace and a laughing-stock, but I'm sure Justin Fields is smart enough to know his football life as an Atlanta Falcon isn't going to be any kind of an upgrade

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2024 5:31 pm 
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Fields doesnt wear his hair like that anymore.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2024 8:57 pm 
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There is more of a chance that the Bears sign Russell Wilson to the vet minimum contract to allow Williams to ramp up than the Falcons both trading for Fields and signing Wilson to compete for the starter's job.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2024 9:02 pm 
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I wouldn't want Russell Wilson near my quarterback. Just bring back the worst quarterback in NFL history and allow him to be a babysitter for C-Will. They're already training together.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2024 10:08 pm 
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Chet Coppock's Fur Coat wrote:
There is more of a chance that the Bears sign Russell Wilson to the vet minimum contract to allow Williams to ramp up than the Falcons both trading for Fields and signing Wilson to compete for the starter's job.


I don't think anyone said the falcons would acquire both fields or Wilson. The question was who would the falcons rather acquire between fields and Wilson. BD seems to think a win now team would clearly prefer a losing QB like Fields because a losing QB like Fields is the missing piece a losing team needs to become a winning team. BD was unable to provide evidence that a losing QB like Fields can vault the falcons into the playoffs, as he claimed.

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Last edited by veganfan21 on Wed Feb 28, 2024 10:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2024 10:14 pm 
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NAS advocating for franchise tagging Nathan Peterman? Only $36.3 million to tag Peterman. Bears can afford. It would only 5x NP's career earnings

Seven fucking seasons? How the hell has Nathan Peterman held an NFL roster spot as a QB for 7 seasons



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2024 10:19 pm 
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:lol: :lol: There's more money in being a 3rd string quarterback than a quarterback coach. He'll eventually be forced into coaching. When the worst quarterback in NFL history can maintain a job, anything is possible.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2024 11:06 pm 
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nice to know fields is learning from other players :roll:

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 29, 2024 6:53 am 
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The pre free agency period is always an interesting collection of tall tales spun by agents and then breathlessly reported by "NFL Insider" types.

However, it does seem that Poles should leave the combine with numerous offers for Fields and the #1 pick in hand, you do have a few odd owners and GM who are on the hot seat, just needs to get a few teams bidding against each other, or find a Ryan Pace and get him bidding against himself.

Can easily see Fields going to Atlanta and running a QB run heavy system, starting out great, and then him missing significant time due to injury, also seems a guy can only operate in a QB heavy run system for a few years before he gets hurt and starts making business decisions which limit the big QB run plays.

The biggest reason they draft Williams is that it resets the rookie QB contract window, see teams like Philadelphia feeling the impact of not being able to keep quality vets because they have to pay a QB, KC was able to mitigate this only because of Mahomes and his ability to win with almost anyone playing WR.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 29, 2024 8:09 am 
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 29, 2024 8:12 am 
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Clawmaster wrote:
The pre free agency period is always an interesting collection of tall tales spun by agents and then breathlessly reported by "NFL Insider" types.

However, it does seem that Poles should leave the combine with numerous offers for Fields and the #1 pick in hand, you do have a few odd owners and GM who are on the hot seat, just needs to get a few teams bidding against each other, or find a Ryan Pace and get him bidding against himself.

Can easily see Fields going to Atlanta and running a QB run heavy system, starting out great, and then him missing significant time due to injury, also seems a guy can only operate in a QB heavy run system for a few years before he gets hurt and starts making business decisions which limit the big QB run plays.

The biggest reason they draft Williams is that it resets the rookie QB contract window, see teams like Philadelphia feeling the impact of not being able to keep quality vets because they have to pay a QB, KC was able to mitigate this only because of Mahomes and his ability to win with almost anyone playing WR.


Because he has the potential to be great. That's the biggest reason.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 29, 2024 9:39 am 
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Nas wrote:
Clawmaster wrote:
The pre free agency period is always an interesting collection of tall tales spun by agents and then breathlessly reported by "NFL Insider" types.

However, it does seem that Poles should leave the combine with numerous offers for Fields and the #1 pick in hand, you do have a few odd owners and GM who are on the hot seat, just needs to get a few teams bidding against each other, or find a Ryan Pace and get him bidding against himself.

Can easily see Fields going to Atlanta and running a QB run heavy system, starting out great, and then him missing significant time due to injury, also seems a guy can only operate in a QB heavy run system for a few years before he gets hurt and starts making business decisions which limit the big QB run plays.

The biggest reason they draft Williams is that it resets the rookie QB contract window, see teams like Philadelphia feeling the impact of not being able to keep quality vets because they have to pay a QB, KC was able to mitigate this only because of Mahomes and his ability to win with almost anyone playing WR.


Because he has the potential to be great. That's the biggest reason.

Exactly. That’s the whole story.

If this was the Pickett draft, nobody would even bring up the contract.

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