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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2024 7:55 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Not true. 68% of Republican voters think it was stolen. Quite substantial. But again I credit you for standing side by side with them even though I don't agree with guys like you who think it was stolen.

Didn't know that Republican voters constitute the entirety of America.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2024 7:57 pm 
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Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
So he actually played five games prior to the injury. Why are you just focusing on two?

The 2 games immediately prior to injury. Definitely not relevant while discussing something "prior to injury".


Are you saying we should only use those two games to evaluate Fields?

Definitely illustrates that he played very well "in stretches" Perhaps Keyshawn can explain exactly what that means. As well as "prior to injury" while he is at it.
This was from prior to his stellar game against the Packers to close the season...

Through Sunday's games, Fields ranks last in the NFL this season among 31 qualified quarterbacks in fourth-quarter completion percentage (51.8%), is 25th in yards per attempt (5.9), tied for 29th in fourth-quarter interceptions (6) and 30th in QBR (20.4), per ESPN Stats & Information research. Since joining the league in 2021, Fields is last among 38 qualified quarterbacks in fourth-quarter interceptions (16), 36th in completion percentage (56.2%) and 33rd in QBR (41.4).

When evaluators around the league watch Fields, they can't help but notice what holds him back -- mainly, a tendency to hold on to the ball too long from the pocket, failing to see routes develop. He's last in the league among 31 qualified quarterbacks in average time per pass (3.23 seconds) in 2023, and last among 38 qualified quarterbacks in that metric since entering the league (3.10 seconds). In 37 career starts, Fields has surpassed 225 passing yards six times. Eighteen NFL starters average at least 230 yards per game this season.


If the Bears believed that Justin Fields was the problem, they would not have sacked the O.C. And if they do not draft Williams, it is clear that they do not believe that he was the problem.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2024 7:57 pm 
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The Doctor Of Style should stick to sports that he understands.
I have no idea what this whole Keyshawn thing is about. He's a receiver. He should stick to talking about receivers. That's his area of expertise. Let's look at Boomer who thought early this season that Fields would improve. He did not. Boomer sees that he can't see blitzes. Boomer sees that he can't see downfield open receivers. Boomer would be "very surprised" if the bears passed on Williams. He sees that Fields isn't playing "free and easy". Boomer watched week 18, said it went terrible for Fields and that the bears have to move on. I think Boomer knows a little more about quarterbacking than Keyshawn does.
It's going into year 4. If you're asking if Fields is your guy still then he isn't your guy.
It's not coaching. It's not his offensive line. If you think these things perhaps you never played football, or don't watch much football or simply don't understand football. Great quarterbacks do not allow this to cause them to be terrible. Mahomes didn't. Rodgers didn't. Many others didn't as well.
So what if Fields has a cannon. He can't use it. He doesn't see coverage like an NFL quarterback should. He doesn't throw receivers open. Fields having a cannon for an arm is like giving your mother a Ferrari. She wouldn't know what to do with it and neither does Fields.
It just so happens Fields is terribly one dimensional. He has the moves. I'll give him that. He has escape ability, I'll give him that. What happens when he has that leg injury that takes his speed away, or even a small percentage of his speed. Is he able to convert to a pocket passer? I suspect he cannot. He has shown nothing to suggest he can transform into a pocket passer. Nothing.
Time will tell if I'm wrong. I don't suspect I am. I've got 47 years of playing, watching and understanding football. I am no expert. However, the experts outside of Keyshawn seem to think Fields doesn't identify coverage well. They seem to think he doesn't see passing windows and when he does they're closing, not just starting to open.
I don't think Fields is the guy. There's nothing to suggest he will start to see the things that great quarterbacks see. Cutting bait now is the right move.
Will Williams be better? It's not guaranteed. But what's is guaranteed is that Fields is who Fields is, and thats a quarterback that will put up stats that keep him somewhere in the 20th area of rankings.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2024 7:59 pm 
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The Doctor Of Style wrote:
If the Bears believed that Justin Fields was the problem, they would not have sacked the O.C. And if they do not draft Williams, it is clear that they do not believe that he was the problem.
I don't disagree with that if the 2nd statement proves true. I do think that they should move on from Fields though....although as a Packers fan I'd be happy if they keep him :wink:

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Last edited by Zippy-The-Pinhead on Tue Jan 23, 2024 8:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2024 7:59 pm 
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The Doctor Of Style wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Not true. 68% of Republican voters think it was stolen. Quite substantial. But again I credit you for standing side by side with them even though I don't agree with guys like you who think it was stolen.

Didn't know that Republican voters constitute the entirety of America.


Oh so now you care about metrics and numbers. What happened to public opinion? Pick a lane bro. Either you rely on data or you just self identify as someone who thinks fields is good regardless of evidence.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2024 8:02 pm 
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Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
If the Bears believed that Justin Fields was the problem, they would not have sacked the O.C. And if they do not draft Williams, it is clear that they do not believe that he was the problem.
I don't disagree with that if the 2nd statement proves true. I do think that they should move on from Fields though....although as a Packers fan I'd be happy if they keep him :wink:


"Moving On" could get us Tyson Bagent. Actually MANY of the Gurus were strongly advocating for that at one point. That is until they weren't of course.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2024 8:05 pm 
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The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
If the Bears believed that Justin Fields was the problem, they would not have sacked the O.C. And if they do not draft Williams, it is clear that they do not believe that he was the problem.
I don't disagree with that if the 2nd statement proves true. I do think that they should move on from Fields though....although as a Packers fan I'd be happy if they keep him :wink:


"Moving On" could get us Tyson Bagent. Actually MANY of the Gurus were strongly advocating for that at one point. That is until they weren't of course.

Come on. Bagent is awful and while there were a few supporters early on I don't think anyone is still on board that train.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2024 8:16 pm 
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Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
Come on. Bagent is awful and while there were a few supporters early on I don't think anyone is still on board that train.
But why would anyone that claims to know football have ever thought that Bagent was good? And "moving on" (As stated previously) is only relative to who they move on too. Its obvious that MANY of the gurus advocate for bouncing Fields solely for the purpose of "bouncing Fields". Which is just plain dumb. If they jettison the guy, they better KNOW that whomever they get in return is better.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2024 8:18 pm 
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The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
Come on. Bagent is awful and while there were a few supporters early on I don't think anyone is still on board that train.
But why would anyone that claims to know football have ever thought that Bagent was good? And "moving on" (As stated previously) is only relative to who they move on too. Its obvious that MANY of the gurus advocate for bouncing Fields solely for the purpose of "bouncing Fields". Which is just plain dumb. If they jettison the guy, they better KNOW that whomever they get in return is better.

Nobody thought bagent was anything other than a serviceable backup.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2024 8:33 pm 
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The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
Come on. Bagent is awful and while there were a few supporters early on I don't think anyone is still on board that train.
But why would anyone that claims to know football have ever thought that Bagent was good? And "moving on" (As stated previously) is only relative to who they move on too. Its obvious that MANY of the gurus advocate for bouncing Fields solely for the purpose of "bouncing Fields". Which is just plain dumb. If they jettison the guy, they better KNOW that whomever they get in return is better.


By that logic, Fields should never have been drafted in the first place since no one was certain he would be better than (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky. And he hasn't been.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2024 8:42 pm 
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Tall Midget wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
Come on. Bagent is awful and while there were a few supporters early on I don't think anyone is still on board that train.
But why would anyone that claims to know football have ever thought that Bagent was good? And "moving on" (As stated previously) is only relative to who they move on too. Its obvious that MANY of the gurus advocate for bouncing Fields solely for the purpose of "bouncing Fields". Which is just plain dumb. If they jettison the guy, they better KNOW that whomever they get in return is better.


By that logic, Fields should never have been drafted in the first place since no one was certain he would be better than (Pro Bowl QB) (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky. And he hasn't been.


Opinions vary. And Fields is clearly the better talent and that was known when he was drafted. And Trubinsky had a much better supporting cast than Fields has ever had. And the Bears weren't tanking during (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky's first two years in the league either. That is why the entire CFMB inspired narrative regarding Fields career to date is rather silly.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2024 8:45 pm 
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The Doctor Of Style wrote:
RFDC wrote:
No offense to Keyshawn, but he loves the sound of his voice. He is not someone that can be trusted to evaluate QBs. If he played with Justin Fields he would be bitching within 2 quarters to get him the damn ball more.


He stated that Fields was the better talent and essentially said that Caleb Williams is just a guy. Can't say that I expected that to be honest.




iirc Keyshawn was always a disproportionate supporter of Fields when he was on ESPN mornings even when it made no sense. So he’s at least consistent..

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2024 8:47 pm 
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Hawg Ass wrote:
Fields need to be extended. He seems to have a promising career eventually.




Packers are free to draw that contract up right after they trade a 1st for him..

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2024 8:48 pm 
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NME wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
RFDC wrote:
No offense to Keyshawn, but he loves the sound of his voice. He is not someone that can be trusted to evaluate QBs. If he played with Justin Fields he would be bitching within 2 quarters to get him the damn ball more.


He stated that Fields was the better talent and essentially said that Caleb Williams is just a guy. Can't say that I expected that to be honest.




iirc Keyshawn was always a disproportionate supporter of Fields when he was on ESPN mornings even when it made no sense. So he’s at least consistent..

He sounded like it. I give him that. I was actually shocked that he was so certain about Fields being better. No way did I expect that. I expected him to him and haw like Vegan and others have been doing around here.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2024 8:56 pm 
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Fields has a cannon for an arm and is a dynamic runner. He has made some incredible plays in his young career, and there is no doubt that he has the potential to be a star quarterback. He is still young and developing. Fields is only in his third season in the NFL. He is still learning the game and has not yet reached his full potential. With more time and experience, he could become a franchise quarterback.
The Bears don't have a clear-cut replacement. There is no surefire quarterback prospect in the upcoming draft. If the Bears trade Fields, they could be stuck with a mediocre quarterback for several years.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2024 8:56 pm 
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The objective evidence says Fields sucks. There's your hem and hawing. You have as much success with evaluating talent as Patrick Williams does with rebounding

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2024 8:57 pm 
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NME wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
RFDC wrote:
No offense to Keyshawn, but he loves the sound of his voice. He is not someone that can be trusted to evaluate QBs. If he played with Justin Fields he would be bitching within 2 quarters to get him the damn ball more.


He stated that Fields was the better talent and essentially said that Caleb Williams is just a guy. Can't say that I expected that to be honest.




iirc Keyshawn was always a disproportionate supporter of Fields when he was on ESPN mornings even when it made no sense. So he’s at least consistent..



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2024 9:21 pm 
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You all can tell me to stay in my lane because I'm not a Bears fan, but Fields is a talented QB who could go on to be a very good starter in this league in the right situation and with the right coaching.

What I think LTG is overlooking is that the Bears have to make a decision of whether or not to pay him after this year or start over with a rookie QB on a rookie contract. For the Bears I don't think Fields is worth the investment when you can get Williams for 4 years on a rookie deal.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2024 9:28 pm 
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Franky T wrote:
You all can tell me to stay in my lane because I'm not a Bears fan, but Fields is a talented QB who could go on to be a very good starter in this league in the right situation and with the right coaching.

What I think LTG is overlooking is that the Bears have to make a decision of whether or not to pay him after this year or start over with a rookie QB on a rookie contract. For the Bears I don't think Fields is worth the investment when you can get Williams for 4 years on a rookie deal.


You can talk about bears business if you get the Steelers to refund the second Poles paid for Claypool.

More seriously, it's fine if you think Fields is "talented" who can be a "good" starter in the right situation, it's what MANY people think, but they often can't provide some sort of statistical basis for the assertion. Often times the stats point in the opposite direction.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2024 9:36 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
The objective evidence says Fields sucks. There's your hem and hawing. You have as much success with evaluating talent as Patrick Williams does with rebounding


if we would have just worn masks the 4th year, covid would be gone.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2024 10:17 pm 
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Darkside AI wrote:
The Doctor Of Style should stick to sports that he understands.
I have no idea what this whole Keyshawn thing is about. He's a receiver. He should stick to talking about receivers. That's his area of expertise. Let's look at Boomer who thought early this season that Fields would improve. He did not. Boomer sees that he can't see blitzes. Boomer sees that he can't see downfield open receivers. Boomer would be "very surprised" if the bears passed on Williams. He sees that Fields isn't playing "free and easy". Boomer watched week 18, said it went terrible for Fields and that the bears have to move on. I think Boomer knows a little more about quarterbacking than Keyshawn does.
It's going into year 4. If you're asking if Fields is your guy still then he isn't your guy.
It's not coaching. It's not his offensive line. If you think these things perhaps you never played football, or don't watch much football or simply don't understand football. Great quarterbacks do not allow this to cause them to be terrible. Mahomes didn't. Rodgers didn't. Many others didn't as well.
So what if Fields has a cannon. He can't use it. He doesn't see coverage like an NFL quarterback should. He doesn't throw receivers open. Fields having a cannon for an arm is like giving your mother a Ferrari. She wouldn't know what to do with it and neither does Fields.
It just so happens Fields is terribly one dimensional. He has the moves. I'll give him that. He has escape ability, I'll give him that. What happens when he has that leg injury that takes his speed away, or even a small percentage of his speed. Is he able to convert to a pocket passer? I suspect he cannot. He has shown nothing to suggest he can transform into a pocket passer. Nothing.
Time will tell if I'm wrong. I don't suspect I am. I've got 47 years of playing, watching and understanding football. I am no expert. However, the experts outside of Keyshawn seem to think Fields doesn't identify coverage well. They seem to think he doesn't see passing windows and when he does they're closing, not just starting to open.
I don't think Fields is the guy. There's nothing to suggest he will start to see the things that great quarterbacks see. Cutting bait now is the right move.
Will Williams be better? It's not guaranteed. But what's is guaranteed is that Fields is who Fields is, and thats a quarterback that will put up stats that keep him somewhere in the 20th area of rankings.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2024 10:24 pm 
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The Hawk wrote:
Darkside AI wrote:
The Doctor Of Style should stick to sports that he understands.
I have no idea what this whole Keyshawn thing is about. He's a receiver. He should stick to talking about receivers. That's his area of expertise. Let's look at Boomer who thought early this season that Fields would improve. He did not. Boomer sees that he can't see blitzes. Boomer sees that he can't see downfield open receivers. Boomer would be "very surprised" if the bears passed on Williams. He sees that Fields isn't playing "free and easy". Boomer watched week 18, said it went terrible for Fields and that the bears have to move on. I think Boomer knows a little more about quarterbacking than Keyshawn does.
It's going into year 4. If you're asking if Fields is your guy still then he isn't your guy.
It's not coaching. It's not his offensive line. If you think these things perhaps you never played football, or don't watch much football or simply don't understand football. Great quarterbacks do not allow this to cause them to be terrible. Mahomes didn't. Rodgers didn't. Many others didn't as well.
So what if Fields has a cannon. He can't use it. He doesn't see coverage like an NFL quarterback should. He doesn't throw receivers open. Fields having a cannon for an arm is like giving your mother a Ferrari. She wouldn't know what to do with it and neither does Fields.
It just so happens Fields is terribly one dimensional. He has the moves. I'll give him that. He has escape ability, I'll give him that. What happens when he has that leg injury that takes his speed away, or even a small percentage of his speed. Is he able to convert to a pocket passer? I suspect he cannot. He has shown nothing to suggest he can transform into a pocket passer. Nothing.

I see young guy who has been a victim of bad coaching, bad receivers, and bad offensive lines. He has worked his way to be a good quarterback certainly one who the Bear's can build a team around. I think that he needs an offensive tackle, a center and a good wide out to complete the puzzle.


Time will tell if I'm wrong. I don't suspect I am. I've got 47 years of playing, watching and understanding football. I am no expert. However, the experts outside of Keyshawn seem to think Fields doesn't identify coverage well. They seem to think he doesn't see passing windows and when he does they're closing, not just starting to open.
I don't think Fields is the guy. There's nothing to suggest he will start to see the things that great quarterbacks see. Cutting bait now is the right move.
Will Williams be better? It's not guaranteed. But what's is guaranteed is that Fields is who Fields is, and thats a quarterback that will put up stats that keep him somewhere in the 20th area of rankings.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2024 10:32 pm 
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No success on first and second down for the Hawk, setting up a third and long, just like his hero QB

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2024 10:37 pm 
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Franky T wrote:
You all can tell me to stay in my lane because I'm not a Bears fan, but Fields is a talented QB who could go on to be a very good starter in this league in the right situation and with the right coaching.

What I think LTG is overlooking is that the Bears have to make a decision of whether or not to pay him after this year or start over with a rookie QB on a rookie contract. For the Bears I don't think Fields is worth the investment when you can get Williams for 4 years on a rookie deal.


fields would probably make a better steelers QB than (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky has; i don't know pitt's attachment to pickett though.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2024 10:44 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
The objective evidence says Fields sucks. There's your hem and hawing. You have as much success with evaluating talent as Patrick Williams does with rebounding



Don't you just love it when someone claims they have OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE and then states that the other guy sucks??

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2024 3:20 am 
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The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
Come on. Bagent is awful and while there were a few supporters early on I don't think anyone is still on board that train.
But why would anyone that claims to know football have ever thought that Bagent was good? And "moving on" (As stated previously) is only relative to who they move on too. Its obvious that MANY of the gurus advocate for bouncing Fields solely for the purpose of "bouncing Fields". Which is just plain dumb. If they jettison the guy, they better KNOW that whomever they get in return is better.


By that logic, Fields should never have been drafted in the first place since no one was certain he would be better than (Pro Bowl QB) (Pro Bowl QB) (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky. And he hasn't been.


Opinions vary. And Fields is clearly the better talent and that was known when he was drafted. And Trubinsky had a much better supporting cast than Fields has ever had. And the Bears weren't tanking during (Pro Bowl QB) (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky's first two years in the league either. That is why the entire CFMB inspired narrative regarding Fields career to date is rather silly.


Fields wasn't rated that highly prior to the draft. That's why he fell to #11 overalll and was the 4th QB taken in the 2021 class, behind Lawrence, Lance, and Wilson. Lance Zierlein, the lead draft analyst for NFL.com, rated him as a 6.45 on a 10.0 scale. In 2017, he gave (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky a 7.0 rating. Another well known analyst, Dane Brugler, ranked Fields behind Lawrence, Wilson and Jones as a QB prospect. In contrast, he ranked (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky as the #1 prospect in the 2017 draft, ahead of Watson, Mahomes, and Kizer.

(Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky did not have a "much better" supporting cast than Fields. (Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky's wide receivers in 2017 were Josh Bellamy and Kendall Wright, one of the worst receiving tandems in modern NFL history. He had a gimpy Allen Robinson in 2018, and a healthy Robinson but nothing else in 2019 and 2020. His best tight end was a worn down, semi-retired Jimmy Graham or an erratic Trey Burton, and his offensive line featured luminaries like Germain Ifedi, Rashaad Coward, Charles Leno, Bobby Massie, etc.

Since Nagy and Pace were trying to save their jobs in 2021, they obviously weren't tanking during Fields' rookie season. Poles clearly tanked in 2022, but this wasn't the case in 2023. If it were, he wouldn't have brought in DJ Moore, Edmunds, Edwards, Bilings, Sweat, etc.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2024 7:57 am 
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brick is sometimes a genius. the (Pro Bowl QB) thing is pretty great.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2024 8:36 am 
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W_Z wrote:
brick is sometimes a genius. the (Pro Bowl QB) thing is pretty great.


Took 87 guys to pass on the game in order for him to get there didn't it? Or am I remembering wrong?

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2024 10:06 am 
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Keyshawn Johnson wrote:
NME wrote:
The Doctor Of Style wrote:
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No offense to Keyshawn, but he loves the sound of his voice. He is not someone that can be trusted to evaluate QBs. If he played with Justin Fields he would be bitching within 2 quarters to get him the damn ball more.


He stated that Fields was the better talent and essentially said that Caleb Williams is just a guy. Can't say that I expected that to be honest.




iirc Keyshawn was always a disproportionate supporter of Fields when he was on ESPN mornings even when it made no sense. So he’s at least consistent..



Keep my name, out of your mouth




As long as you talk -you gonna get talked about.


Btw, Keyshawn JohnSTAN would have been funnier..

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